Position of surround speakers

[admin_exported]

Hi All

I'm decorating my lounge at the moment and looking to install the cables for a new 5.1 set-up. My question is where would be the optimum place to position my rear surround speakers?

I previously had them on stands in the left and right rear corners of the room pointing sideways across the back wall, with the sofa positioned against the back wall. However the missus now wants to put shelves in that space so was thinking of mounting the speakers on the left and right side walls pointing them down to the sofa, around 1 foot below the ceiling. Would that work?

Thanks

 

[fayeanddavid]

Couple of questions first i guess;

What rear speakers are they; bi-pole, di-pole, covential forward facing?

What would be the final height to the centre of the speaker

I have mine at about 1.90m ish from the floor (also about 300mm below ceiling), they are di pole so are not angled down, guess that height is OK generally and forward facing I understand can be angled down towards the listening position

 

[camac]

Does that mean that your listening position is behind the rear speaker position ? .If so i personally would not put them there. A lot depends on the type ( di-pole ,bi-pole, tri-pole etc.) and make of the rear surround speakers you intend to use.

Can you not position them above or on the shelves on the back wall?.

 

[Sliced Bread]

As fayeanddavid said, it depends on what type of speakers they are. If they are standard bookshelf / stand mount speakers and you are sitting against the backwall, then good results can be achieved by having them wall mounted high up on the left and right wall. However rather than pointing them at the sofa, tilt them down a little so they are still firing over your head and have them firing forwards into the room a little (maybe 20 or 30 degrees). This creates quite a nice diffuse sound which should hopefully blend into the rest of the system well. This is not the only way of doing it and many would have other ideas, but this is well worth a try. One last thing. Do not fire them directly at each other across the room as that can cause phasing problems and messes up the surround effect.

 

[Anonymous]

For the time being I'll be using my existing Accoustic Energy AEGIS EVO One 5.1 package. Not sure what type they are (di-pole, bi-pole etc)?

However, I will be looking to replace them in the next month once decorating is complete, but not sure what with yet. My budget will be around £1500 for two front floor standers, two wall mounted rears and a centre. Could even go 7.1 but not sure if that would help or hinder the sound as I only have 0.5m of space below the ceiling across my back wall (as it's a through lounge).

I was thinking about the Onkyo 608 Amp to drive them. I guess my budget for both speakers and amp is £2k so open to suggestions, but my initial query was where to position the two rears as the decorators are in at the moment.

 

[Sliced Bread]

Do you have a photo of the room?

 

[fayeanddavid]

but my initial query was where to position the two rears as the decorators are in at the moment?

Slightly behind your listening position, as a general rule of thumb, on each of the side walls, angled in to the space, if your room space and furniture layout allows

If not on the rear wall with the same constraints, what you don't need is to have your seating position bang up against the rear wall with your speakers directly/above behind you, or even either side of you.

You will need to endsure that the speakers can "breathe" into the room and not be constrained

Both Dolby Digital and DTS have very good web sites and info on room layouts and speaker positions, from the ideal to the obscure, and shed loads of good info for setting up

 

[Anonymous]

I don't have a photo of the room but will get one tonight if that helps?

It's a square lounge with a bay window at the front and the rear wall has been knocked through into the dining room behind it. But the surround sound will only occupy the first part of the room which is about 4m x 4m (i.e. not both parts of the through lounge). The sofa will sit where the dividing wall used to be.

If I mount the rears on the left and right walls, around 0.5m below the ceiling, they will be roughly adjacent with the seating position, not behind.

The TV will be sat in the bay window, with a floorstander at each side and a centre sat on the stand underneath the TV.

Hope that all makes sense, and thanks very much for the replies so far.

 

[Anonymous]

The cabling is going in today. It looks like I didn't have much choice regarding where exactly my rears would be positioned due to the new room layout.. They will be on the left and right walls, just below the ceiling.

So next question is which speakers to get. Budget is around £1500 for 2 fronts, 2 rears and a centre. I was thinking of sticking with my existing AE AEGIS EVO 1 Sub for now and maybe upgrade that later if required. I was considering floorstanding fronts, with discreet (maybe satellite) rears if that could work?

And the purpose is for movies and music, though we watch more movies than listen to music so movies is the priority.

And I was thinking of getting the Onkyo 608 to drive them, or an alternative around £500.

Any pointers much appreciated.

 

[scene]

A full Monitor Audio RX6 AV12 set, consisting of 2x RX6, an RX-LCR, 2x RXFX and an RXW12 sub can be had for £2,200 (or thereabouts). As you're keeping your sub, you would just need the RX6 @£750, the RX-LCR @£300 and the RXFX for £400 (all approx.) this is within your budget and you can get the RXW12 later.

These would make a fantastic set up (I would be jealous!), with longevity and the option for bipole/dipole switchable rears to give you flexibility. You should be able to get a demo at your local AV showroom, along with the Onkyo. You could take your Evo sub along to see how it gels with the rest of the package.

You might want to try a couple of other amps with the speakers, maybe a Denon and a Pioneer, for contrast. If you buy the lot at one dealer, you might well be able to cut a deal and get a more expensive amp for your budget...

 

[Anonymous]

That Monitor Audio set looks very nice indeed but I suspect those rears are too big for the wall space I have.

Any smaller alternative options for the rears?

Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Also it's worth mentioning that the right-hand wall has a protruding chimney breast which may hinder the sound coming from the right-hand surround speaker. The right surround speaker will be wall mounted on the wall, so with the chimney breast near it, it's going to be in a bit of a corner.

Cheers

 

[scene]

Have you considered in-ceiling speakers for the rear pair? E.g. the Monitor Audio C380-FX (about £450-480 a pair) or C265-FX (about £300-325 a pair) would be an excellent tonal match for the RX fronts. These would get round the wall shape issue, with the added advantage (potentially) of added partner-friendliness...

The downside is having to run cables to them through your newly decorated room.

Alternatively, you could try to match the RX fronts with some rears from one of Monitor Audio's smaller ranges (Radius HD / Apex), but I'm not sure how well this would gel - I'd definitely advise talking to a dealer and having a demo.

Finally, and still assuming you want to stick with the RX fronts, you could look at a radical alternative, something like the Q-AV BMR rears, which is what I've just ordered (for various reasons - see a couple of other threads). These use THX panels (the BMR stands for Balanced Mode Radiator) and so have a wide dispersion and are much less sensitive to positioning. Again, how well they will match with the fronts is a matter of debate and demo.

 

[Anonymous]

I've also decided to install cabling for a projector now that the room is stripped, because I fancy getting one in the near future. Should I install HDMI v1.3 or v1.4 cable?

Thanks

 

[scene]

jazzdog:
I've also decided to install cabling for a projector now that the room is stripped, because I fancy getting one in the near future. Should I install HDMI v1.3 or v1.4 cable?

Thanks

For future compatibility, and as you don't want to have to re-do your cables down the line, I would look to putting HDMI 1.4 cable in place.

(Or CAT5e or CAT6 and getting a pair of HDMI to ethernet converters - but that is overkill

Any decision on the surround speakers yet?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm getting a demo of the Monitor Audio RX 5.1 set. I've managed to get my wall lighting placed slightly lower than previous to accommodate a potentially bigger set of surrounds. So I'm inclined to go with the whole 5.1 package now (although the sub will come later), rather than pairing the fronts up with something smaller for the rears. I'm quite excited about it

The demo will be with with the Onkyo 608 amp, plus a Pioneer and a Yamaha as alternatives.

Thanks

 

[scene]

jazzdog:
I'm getting a demo of the Monitor Audio RX 5.1 set. I've managed to get my wall lighting placed slightly lower than previous to accommodate a potentially bigger set of surrounds. So I'm inclined to go with the whole 5.1 package now (although the sub will come later), rather than pairing the fronts up with something smaller for the rears. I'm quite excited about it

The demo will be with with the Onkyo 608 amp, plus a Pioneer and a Yamaha as alternatives.

Thanks

Is that an in-home, or in-store demo? Out of interest which Pioneer and Yammy amps are you going to compare to the Onk?

 

[Anonymous]

It's an in-store demo. Not ideal, I know. I wasn't aware that dealers offered in-home demos? It has never been mentioned to me as an option.

The other two amps are the Pioneer VSX920 and Yamaha RXV667 but I'm open to suggestions around the £500 mark.

Cheers

 

[Anonymous]

I'm struggling to find a dealer who can give me an audition of the MA speaker combos with the amps that I'm interested in (Onkyo TX-NR608/808, Yamaha RX-V1067). I'm in the Leeds area so any suggestions welcome.

Also it says in the latest edition of WHF that the MA RX6 AV12 package "needs a lot of room to breathe". So I'm concerned that my 15' x 12' lounge won't be big enough to accommodate. Has anyone got this package in a similar sized room?

Thanks

 

[Sliced Bread]

jazzdog:Also it says in the latest edition of WHF that the MA RX6 AV12 package "needs a lot of room to breathe". So I'm concerned that my 15' x 12' lounge won't be big enough to accommodate. Has anyone got this package in a similar sized room?
Thanks

Difficult as room size alone isn't the only factor. Some people will say that that size is fine, however I personally would make sure of a home demo first, at least with the RX6s. I have a smaller floorstanding speaker in the same size room and the bass is a little over blown and muddies up the rest of the sound.

If your just using it for films, this is probably less of a problem as I personally barely notice it (although it's probably still best to demo). However if you're using it for music it can be more of a problem, as the music loses its rhythm and subtlety.

 

[Anonymous]

Your budget would allow for a nice MK system

M5 or M7 fronts, and some M4T

 

[Anonymous]

your buget will by you some MK`s which are a cut above imho whats already been mentioned

M5 or M7 fronts and some M4T tripole surrounds, driven with an Onkyo 608 would sound really good if not great.

Coupled to a SB8 or 12 to complete the system, this really would blow your mind especially for movies

Surrounds positioned at 20dgs rear of sitting position would be ideal as well

Also as mentioned earlier, def run 1.4 HDMI, something like a Mark Grant would serve you well and are great quality, or a That cable one which are ridiculously cheap but have won awards for their quality

A demo is highly recommended and 12 miles away not too much trouble either (mods if thats not allowed please delete it)

good luck Al

 

[Anonymous]

Sliced Bread:jazzdog:Also it says in the latest edition of WHF that the MA RX6 AV12 package "needs a lot of room to breathe". So I'm concerned that my 15' x 12' lounge won't be big enough to accommodate. Has anyone got this package in a similar sized room?

Thanks

Difficult as room size alone isn't the only factor. Some people will say that that size is fine, however I personally would make sure of a home demo first, at least with the RX6s. I have a smaller floorstanding speaker in the same size room and the bass is a little over blown and muddies up the rest of the sound.

If your just using it for films, this is probably less of a problem as I personally barely notice it (although it's probably still best to demo). However if you're using it for music it can be more of a problem, as the music loses its rhythm and subtlety.

Yes I hear what you're saying regarding bass overwhelming the room, and this is a concern. My previous system (in the same room)was a Marantz SR5300 driving Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo 5.1 package and the bass was too much for the room.

I thought about the MA Radius 270HD floorstanders, but the dealer said the quality of sound will be noticably worse.

And yes I want a system that does movies and music too.

I've got a demo at the weekend for the RX6 AV12 package with both the Onkyo 808 and the Yamaha 1067. I have to drive 50 odd miles to get there! The dealer has told me that his demo room is similar size to my lounge.

I wouldn't mind a listen to those MKs too.

 

[Anonymous]

jazzdog: I wouldn't mind a listen to those MKs too

your more than welcome to come and have a listen anytime

i`d say leeds center is 15 mins away from us by car

cheers Al

PS. prepare to have your mind blown by proper cinema room speakers lol.

 

[Anonymous]

Well after much deliberation and demo combinations I opted for the following kit:

MA R270HD Fronts - Was very impressed with the big sound coming from such slender speakers. They sounded easily as good, if not better than my previous AE EVO full floorstanders.

MA R90HD Rears - Mounted up on the left and right walls adjacent to the listening position, firing slightly down and forward into the room.

MA R250HD Centre - A bigger and more open sound for dialogue when compared with the 225 or the 180. Recommended, especially with my Sub upgrade.

BK XXLS400 Subwoofer - haven't actually heard this yet, but by all accounts it will add the depth and response that I thought the R270HD lacked compared to my previous AE EVO Sub. Also demo'd the AW12 which was lovely but out of budget.

Sanyo PLV-Z800 Projector. Didn't demo this but did see the picture on the 700 which was really impressive. Plus my existing Panasonic TH50PZ70 50" Plasma.

Onkyo TX-NR808 - Sounded fantastic with the MA HD range, more beefier and dynamic than the Yamaha 1067.

Everything should be hooked up by the weekend, except the Sub which I have to wait 3 weeks for : (

I blew the budget by £200 but hopefully it will be worth it. And most importantly, the missus loves the look (except for the Onkyo!!).

Thanks everyone for all the advise.