pmc twenty 21 mixed feelings

[ErwinC]

I also owned (twice) a pair of B&W cm5 in the past and now own a pair of PMC 20.21 for a few weeks. I bought these after testing the B&W cm5 s2 and Dali Rubicon 2 in my own setup. For me and in my setup, the 20.21 sounds best but i have to admit that i also miss the sound of my old colored B&W cm5. So much that i consider buying another pair for comparing with the 20.21 in my own setup.

I think you should also test the Dali Rubicon 2. I think you will like these a lot.

 

[plastic penguin]

Let me give you a little backstory: I owned Arcam amps for over 13 years. When I decided I wanted a change it took me nigh on 2 years to find a suitable replacement for my A65+. In that time, I home and shop dem'd most of the big names in the sub-£1000 section, including Roksan kandys (LIII & K2)... despite most having many advantages over my budget Arcam, I felt the lift in performance didn't justify the premium cost; the Creek Evo2 did justify the price but lacked the inputs I craved.

It was only when I started to look at ex-dem/s/hand amps over the £1000 mark I noticed there was a marked improvement... yet still dithered over the right amp. Naim XS, Caspian M1, Audio Analogue and the Leema gave me the sound. This was 2010 and I've not looked back.

Likewise, I was manacled to the RS6s since 2007. Wild horses couldn't make part with those flawed but fabulous floorstanders.

Fast forward to now, the Leema is a permanent feature and the RS6s are a thing of the past.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is you'll always have a sonic soft spot for the B&Ws (they are mighty fine speakers), but there are others equally as talented, PMCs in your case and mine, and it does take a while to adapt because those B&Ws, like the RS6s and Arcams, are engrained in our collective psyche.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_664715932]

Let me give you a little backstory: I owned Arcam amps for over 13 years. When I decided I wanted a change it took me nigh on 2 years to find a suitable replacement for my A65+. In that time, I home and shop dem'd most of the big names in the sub-£1000 section, including Roksan kandys (LIII & K2)... despite most having many advantages over my budget Arcam, I felt the lift in performance didn't justify the premium cost; the Creek Evo2 did justify the price but lacked the inputs I craved.

It was only when I started to look at ex-dem/s/hand amps over the £1000 mark I noticed there was a marked improvement... yet still dithered over the right amp. Naim XS, Caspian M1, Audio Analogue and the Leema gave me the sound. This was 2010 and I've not looked back.

Likewise, I was manacled to the RS6s since 2007. Wild horses couldn't make part with those flawed but fabulous floorstanders.?

Fast forward to now, the Leema is a permanent feature and the RS6s are a thing of the past.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is you'll always have a sonic soft spot for the B&Ws (they are mighty fine speakers), but there are others equally as talented, PMCs in your case and mine, and it does take a while to adapt because those B&Ws, like the RS6s and Arcams, are engrained in our collective psyche.

Thanks for that.
I always find your writings very interesting and some what enlightening.
I would like to listen to a tucana someday.

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

Sorry to jump in but its either the 20.21's or Kef LS50's for my Cyrus 8XP and transport but on either one I will be buying deaf thats just the way it is here where i live. Iam a heavy rock fan these will be fairly close to the wall with eichmann cables, if you had to go with one which one would it be. I have a set of Quad 11L but they dont dig into the music enough for me.

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry to jump in but its either the 20.21's or Kef LS50's for my Cyrus 8XP and transport but on either one I will be buying deaf thats just the way it is here where i live. Iam a heavy rock fan these will be fairly close to the wall with eichmann cables, if you had to go with one which one would it be. I have a set of Quad 11L but they dont dig into the music enough for me.

I may be in post-Christmas confusion, but what are 20.21s?

 

[plastic penguin]

Sorry to jump in but its either the 20.21's or Kef LS50's for my Cyrus 8XP and transport but on either one I will be buying deaf thats just the way it is here where i live. Iam a heavy rock fan these will be fairly close to the wall with eichmann cables, if you had to go with one which one would it be. I have a set of Quad 11L but they dont dig into the music enough for me.

I may be in post-Christmas confusion, but what are 20.21s?

Think you are in post Crimbo meltdown, Cno. O/D'd on the old clucker?

20 21 is Twenty 21.

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry to jump in but its either the 20.21's or Kef LS50's for my Cyrus 8XP and transport but on either one I will be buying deaf thats just the way it is here where i live. Iam a heavy rock fan these will be fairly close to the wall with eichmann cables, if you had to go with one which one would it be. I have a set of Quad 11L but they dont dig into the music enough for me.

I may be in post-Christmas confusion, but what are 20.21s?

Think you are in post Crimbo meltdown, Cno. O/D'd on the old clucker?

20 21 is Twenty 21.

Ah.....Thank you Sir.

Brain fog is age related...and having a little too much "Sauce" hasn't helped my cause.

@ Mike

FWIW. If buying "deaf", I would go for the LS50s, which are probably a little more forgiving....the Twenty 21s "might" be a bit much with Cyrus....ie. a little forward, lean and analytical.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_664715932]

Sorry to jump in but its either the 20.21's or Kef LS50's for my Cyrus 8XP and transport but on either one I will be buying deaf thats just the way it is here where i live.  Iam a heavy rock fan these will be fairly close to the wall with eichmann cables, if you had to go with one which one would it be.  I have a set of Quad 11L but they dont dig into the music enough for me.

Speakers you are considering are completely different from each other. I demoed Ls50 a couple of years and to me they just couldn't justify all the rave reviews. If it's a small room I would go for the 21s, but you should also consider bw cm1 s2 or cm5 s2 being a heavy rock fan.

 

[plastic penguin]

Sorry to jump in but its either the 20.21's or Kef LS50's for my Cyrus 8XP and transport but on either one I will be buying deaf thats just the way it is here where i live. Iam a heavy rock fan these will be fairly close to the wall with eichmann cables, if you had to go with one which one would it be. I have a set of Quad 11L but they dont dig into the music enough for me.

If I was in the market for really small speakers, I would look at Neat Motive 3 or the Iotas.

 

[plastic penguin]

Sorry to jump in but its either the 20.21's or Kef LS50's for my Cyrus 8XP and transport but on either one I will be buying deaf thats just the way it is here where i live. Iam a heavy rock fan these will be fairly close to the wall with eichmann cables, if you had to go with one which one would it be. I have a set of Quad 11L but they dont dig into the music enough for me.

I may be in post-Christmas confusion, but what are 20.21s?

Think you are in post Crimbo meltdown, Cno. O/D'd on the old clucker?

20 21 is Twenty 21.

Ah.....Thank you Sir.

Brain fog is age related...and having a little too much "Sauce" hasn't helped my cause.

@ Mike

FWIW. If buying "deaf", I would go for the LS50s, which are probably a little more forgiving....the Twenty 21s "might" be a bit much with Cyrus....ie. a little forward, lean and analytical.

I heard the 8XP with MA GX100. Surprisingly, they sounded quite natural.

Mmmm... not sure about PMCs being analytical. Certainly the 'i' series is/was anything but...

When I heard the 23s powered by the Elicit-R, they too have a lovely natural side to their presentation.

 

[CnoEvil]

I heard the 8XP with MA GX100. Surprisingly, they sounded quite natural.

Mmmm... not sure about PMCs being analytical. Certainly the 'i' series is/was anything but...

When I heard the 23s powered by the Elicit-R, they too have a lovely natural side to their presentation.

I agree...

- The "i" versions are warmer than the Twentys

- The Rega is less analytical than the Cyrus.

- I'm just saying that the very "lean and clean" sound of the new PMCs may be too much with the forward, detailed sound of Cyrus.

I have found that the "Blade-based" Kefs are more forgiving than IQ/XQ/Previous Refs.

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

thanks for the input. Its still the twenty.21's or the LS 50's. The more I read from non reviewers the more I find that the LS 50's are not what they are cracked up to be. Im looking for something detailed have a little bass a little in the middle for my rock...and it continues.

Thanks everyone.

 

[plastic penguin]

I heard the 8XP with MA GX100. Surprisingly, they sounded quite natural.

Mmmm... not sure about PMCs being analytical. Certainly the 'i' series is/was anything but...

When I heard the 23s powered by the Elicit-R, they too have a lovely natural side to their presentation.

I agree...

- The "i" versions are warmer than the Twentys

- The Rega is less analytical than the Cyrus.

- I'm just saying that the very "lean and clean" sound of the new PMCs may be too much with the forward, detailed sound of Cyrus.

I have found that the "Blade-based" Kefs are more forgiving than IQ/XQ/Previous Refs.

The only reason for mentioning the Cyrus/GX combo, apart fom hearing them at first hand, is because they are two extremes, and quite frankly I was expecting cats to hold their ears within a half-mile radius. But pleasantly that wasn't the case. That said I'm still not convinced about 'spirit level' tweeter.

Think whichever one Mike plumps for (PMC or Kef) I doubt he'll be disappointed.

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

Thanks Mr. Penguin Im actually leaning on the Proac studio 118's. But I appreicate your input greatly.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_664715932]

thanks for the input.  Its still the twenty.21's or the LS 50's.  The more I read from non reviewers the more I find that the LS 50's are not what they are cracked up to be.  Im looking for something detailed have a little bass a little in the middle for my rock...and it continues. ?

Thanks everyone.

In that case go for the 21s, they take a bit of time getting used to and once they do, they sound great, they work well in small space.

 

[ErwinC]

I also owned a pair of B&W CM5 speakers in the past and bought a pair of PMC Twenty.21 several months ago. Although the sound of the PMC speakers had a lot of detail, tight bass, good imaging, ... i always felt i was missing something compared to my old CM5. With the B&W speakers i could listen to my CD's for a long time without listening fatigue even at higher volume settings.

So i replaced my PMC Twenty.21 with a pair of B&W CM5 S2 a few weeks ago. What i can say is that i listen a lot more music now than when i had the PMC speakers. The new CM5 S2 plays better at lower volumes than the Twenty.21 and has a better more powerful bass (also at lower volumes). But it is the more musical sound of the CM5 S2 that is making the difference for me. With the B&W speakers i can listen at low volume settings and still have a good sound with decent bass. That was not the case with the PMC Twenty.21.

BTW, the B&W plays a lot louder than the PMC at the same volume setting on my Naim UnitiLite (the difference in sensitivity is 3-4 dB).

 

[tonky]

Given the price difference between the CM5 s2 and the PMC speakers the CM5 s2 look like incredible value for money (in your set up). PMC speakers nearly double the price approx?

tonky

 

[ErwinC]

PMC speakers nearly double the price approx?

tonky

About 60% more expensive (in Belgium).

 

[Esra]

Wow, way overpriced imo..Ever compared some Sonus Faber with PMC just by looks?Ok the Venere ex. are made in China (some don´t care anyway) but as I know the Olympica are not which are comparable with PMC Fact series.The Sonus are a whole other world.

 

[SteveR750]

Wow, way overpriced imo..Ever compared some Sonus Faber with PMC just by looks?Ok the Venere ex. are made in China (some don´t care anyway) but as I know the Olympica are not which are comparable with PMC Fact series.The Sonus are a whole other world.

And a very different presentation. It's about personal preference; in that respect they are by definition comparable.

Back to the OP - how are you getting on with them now? I'm intrigued by the bigger floorstanders, the 24s or better the 26s. I've not heard them yet, but I like the idea of neutral and big sounding.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_664715932]

Back to the OP - how are you getting on with them now? I'm intrigued by the bigger floorstanders, the 24s or better the 26s. I've not heard them yet, but I like the idea of neutral and big sounding. 
[/quote]

I am quite enjoying them TBH. Loving the details and altough the bass isn't quite as prominent as bw I really like the sound of the bass guitar on them. They did take a bit of getting used to. I think, having changed my cdp to sa8005 overall sound now has a bit more dynamics compare to when I had the cd6005.