Pioneer BDP LX 55 versus Denon 2012 UD and Partnering Kit
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bigboss
Moderator
Apologies Big Boss.
I am considering either buying the Pioneer BDP LX55 or the Denon 2012 UD. Both Blu Ray Players have similar specs. The Denon currently is retailing at £429 and the Pioneer BDP LX 55 at £255. The salesman at Peter Tyson assures me that the Denon 2012 has better picture and sound quality.
Is it worth spending the extra £174? I want to partner it with my 50inch Panasonic 3D Plasma tv and I am potentially looking at the Pioneer LX85 or the Yamaha RX- A 3010 home cinema amps. If my budget allows I will splash out on the B&W CM9.
I understand that with the Pioneer LX 85 you need to be careful with the partnering speakers.
There are lots of bugs/issues on the Pioneer BDP LX 55 I spoke to the guy at Pioneer he said that there is a firmware update for it.
If I decide not to go with the B&W CM9 as they are expensive which speakers will be compatible with the LX 85?
PS I am certainly not Independent Women Destiny's Child.
I am considering either buying the Pioneer BDP LX55 or the Denon 2012 UD. Both Blu Ray Players have similar specs. The Denon currently is retailing at £429 and the Pioneer BDP LX 55 at £255. The salesman at Peter Tyson assures me that the Denon 2012 has better picture and sound quality.
Is it worth spending the extra £174? I want to partner it with my 50inch Panasonic 3D Plasma tv and I am potentially looking at the Pioneer LX85 or the Yamaha RX- A 3010 home cinema amps. If my budget allows I will splash out on the B&W CM9.
I understand that with the Pioneer LX 85 you need to be careful with the partnering speakers.
There are lots of bugs/issues on the Pioneer BDP LX 55 I spoke to the guy at Pioneer he said that there is a firmware update for it.
If I decide not to go with the B&W CM9 as they are expensive which speakers will be compatible with the LX 85?
PS I am certainly not Independent Women Destiny's Child.
professorhat
Well-known member
Tecky said:
Ask him to setup a demo so you can see both in action - then you can decide if the Denon is worth the extra.
Tecky said:
This is good news - it's definitely time to worry when intangible forms of art start posting questions on forums...
professorhat said:
I didn't think you were "Independent Women Destiny's Child." I guess forum members aren't too hot on girl band lyrics. Clearly the post was more cryptic than I thought!
Well you Guys have gathered that I am not a big fan of Destiny Child.
I agree with Professorhat that it makes sense to get a demo on Pioneer BDP LX 55 and the Denon 2012 blu ray players but there are not many retailers near me stocking both of these kits to get a demo. Peter Tyson is about 200 miles away.
Come on guys lets have a shoot out on this forum on the Blu Ray Player, amplifier and speakers. I value the opinion of the members of this forum as we have a considerable amount of 'Guru's' in this area.
I agree with Professorhat that it makes sense to get a demo on Pioneer BDP LX 55 and the Denon 2012 blu ray players but there are not many retailers near me stocking both of these kits to get a demo. Peter Tyson is about 200 miles away.
Come on guys lets have a shoot out on this forum on the Blu Ray Player, amplifier and speakers. I value the opinion of the members of this forum as we have a considerable amount of 'Guru's' in this area.
michael hoy
Well-known member
Tecky said:
I have seen and heard both players through my LX-85 connected to a Panasonic VT30, I preferred the Denon, but I do have a Denon 2500BT and still find this a hard machine to beat.
Please do not be put of by some saying that Pioneer amps are bright sounding, the LX-85 has a forward sound but set up correctly it is not bright.
I use the MA Apex speakers.
I know it is not always easy but only you can decide and demo where possible.
Thanks Michael for your comments.
I agree with you in relation to the brightness issue on the Pioneer SC-LX 85 amp. This is a top amp and requires a good set of speakers which you certainly have in the MA Apex Speakers.
I may consider the MA's as a substitute to the B&W CM9 as I have heard great things about these speakers.
I was interested to read in this months What Hi Fi that you need to spend at least £3,500 on speakers to get the best out of the Pioneer SC-LX 85.
Do you have any issues with the Wi-Fi being cut off now and again on your Pioneer SC LX 85?
I am leaning towards the Denon 2012 although I am going the extra mile and get a demo along with the Pioneer BDP LX 55.
Tecky
PS. I like your equipment.
I agree with you in relation to the brightness issue on the Pioneer SC-LX 85 amp. This is a top amp and requires a good set of speakers which you certainly have in the MA Apex Speakers.
I may consider the MA's as a substitute to the B&W CM9 as I have heard great things about these speakers.
I was interested to read in this months What Hi Fi that you need to spend at least £3,500 on speakers to get the best out of the Pioneer SC-LX 85.
Do you have any issues with the Wi-Fi being cut off now and again on your Pioneer SC LX 85?
I am leaning towards the Denon 2012 although I am going the extra mile and get a demo along with the Pioneer BDP LX 55.
Tecky
PS. I like your equipment.
michael hoy
Well-known member
Tecky said:
Hi Tecky,
Thanks for the comments.
I am not using the supplied WIFI dongle for my connection, I have the ethernet cable running from the 85 to a Buffalo wireless bridge (4 port) and also plug my OPPO, Sky box and VT30 into it as well.
The Apex are very good speakers and pair well with the LX85.
Enjoy your demo.
Really i dont think you could tell the difference.
Think if someone put on a disk switched the tv off and just asked you to listen to the sound or if they put one of the players on asked you to watch a movie and then see if you new witch player they were using.
Hard to judge isnt it, but i did just that and found the pana 310 blew me away at only £180 it was so close to the high end players and easy to use set up quick to play disks the lot.
So if i had to make a call i would go with the pioneer os of its looks alone and that it goes with the amp so well, if you fancy saving some cash buy the pana, plus both these players have twin hdmi outs if you need that in the future.
Think if someone put on a disk switched the tv off and just asked you to listen to the sound or if they put one of the players on asked you to watch a movie and then see if you new witch player they were using.
Hard to judge isnt it, but i did just that and found the pana 310 blew me away at only £180 it was so close to the high end players and easy to use set up quick to play disks the lot.
So if i had to make a call i would go with the pioneer os of its looks alone and that it goes with the amp so well, if you fancy saving some cash buy the pana, plus both these players have twin hdmi outs if you need that in the future.
Thank You For Your Comments Rapsey
The feedback I am getting is that there not much difference in the picture quality between the Denon 2012 UD and Pioneer BDP LX 55. It is only in the sound department where the Denon 2012 seems to be better.
Is it worth spending an extra £200 purely on the sound quality when I suppose you can get a decent CD player for around £200 which can be connected to the Pioneer LX85. I believe the Denon parts are more expensive than the Pioneer's.
It is interesting that What Hi Fi rate the Denon 2012 as the product of the year for 2011 when the other reviews on different websites only give it 4 out of 5 stars?
The Panasonic 310 is a top 3D player and I did consider this initially but discounted it later on as I want to connect it to the Pioneer LX 85.
Hoping to go for a demo soon to put me out of my misery.
The feedback I am getting is that there not much difference in the picture quality between the Denon 2012 UD and Pioneer BDP LX 55. It is only in the sound department where the Denon 2012 seems to be better.
Is it worth spending an extra £200 purely on the sound quality when I suppose you can get a decent CD player for around £200 which can be connected to the Pioneer LX85. I believe the Denon parts are more expensive than the Pioneer's.
It is interesting that What Hi Fi rate the Denon 2012 as the product of the year for 2011 when the other reviews on different websites only give it 4 out of 5 stars?
The Panasonic 310 is a top 3D player and I did consider this initially but discounted it later on as I want to connect it to the Pioneer LX 85.
Hoping to go for a demo soon to put me out of my misery.
bigboss
Moderator
Few points:
1) If you let the brilliant Pioneer LX85 decode audio, I doubt if the Denon 2012UD can better that. You shouldn't worry about audio.
2) Reviews are a subjective opinion & should only act as a guide to help you shortlist your kit for demo. It's but natural to have some variability amongst different reviewers.
3) Why did you stop considering the Panasonic 310? It's a brilliant player. In fact, you do not need the extra HDMI in the 310. You can save yourself cash & go for the Panasonic 210. No difference in performance between the two.
1) If you let the brilliant Pioneer LX85 decode audio, I doubt if the Denon 2012UD can better that. You shouldn't worry about audio.
2) Reviews are a subjective opinion & should only act as a guide to help you shortlist your kit for demo. It's but natural to have some variability amongst different reviewers.
3) Why did you stop considering the Panasonic 310? It's a brilliant player. In fact, you do not need the extra HDMI in the 310. You can save yourself cash & go for the Panasonic 210. No difference in performance between the two.
Thank You Big Boss for your expert advise
I suppose I can conclude that the quality of the sound will depend largely on the amp used in which case the Pioneer LX85 will do the trick. Therefore spending the extra £200 on the Denon 2012 over the Pioneer BDP LX 55 purely for the sound is not justifiable.
I agree with you that the reviews are subjective and should be used for shortlisting for demo.
The reason why I am leaning towards the Pioneer BDP LX 55 is due to the PQLS comaptibility with the LX 85, I suppose having the Blu Ray Player and amp of the same make also makes sense.
The review of the Pioneer BDP LX 55 on What Hi Fi states that the features on this product you will find on Blu Ray players that are worth considerably more (yes subjective) but I feel that I will be getting Value For Money.
I do agree that one HDMI would be sufficient for my needs but on the above grounds I feel that the Pioneer BDP LX 55 is worth considering over the Panasonic 310 and 210 which are excellent players as you have stated. The Pioneer BDP LX 55 at £259 with a HDMI cable thrown in seems a good deal.
I suppose I can conclude that the quality of the sound will depend largely on the amp used in which case the Pioneer LX85 will do the trick. Therefore spending the extra £200 on the Denon 2012 over the Pioneer BDP LX 55 purely for the sound is not justifiable.
I agree with you that the reviews are subjective and should be used for shortlisting for demo.
The reason why I am leaning towards the Pioneer BDP LX 55 is due to the PQLS comaptibility with the LX 85, I suppose having the Blu Ray Player and amp of the same make also makes sense.
The review of the Pioneer BDP LX 55 on What Hi Fi states that the features on this product you will find on Blu Ray players that are worth considerably more (yes subjective) but I feel that I will be getting Value For Money.
I do agree that one HDMI would be sufficient for my needs but on the above grounds I feel that the Pioneer BDP LX 55 is worth considering over the Panasonic 310 and 210 which are excellent players as you have stated. The Pioneer BDP LX 55 at £259 with a HDMI cable thrown in seems a good deal.
bigboss
Moderator
If you haven't bought the LX85 already, check this:
http://www.petertyson.co.uk/ebuttonz/ebz_product_pages/pioneer_sc-lx85_and_bdplx55_system.shtml?fshop
http://www.petertyson.co.uk/ebuttonz/ebz_product_pages/pioneer_sc-lx85_and_bdplx55_system.shtml?fshop
Thank You Big Boss For the Link.
I have found the Pioneer LX 85 at £1,299 from Simply Electronics, although it comes with a one year guarantee.
http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mainproduct.php?pid=14951&sd=specs
Has anyone bought from them? They don't appear to have any seller ratings.
Together with the Pioneer BDP LX 55 at £259 comes around at £1,558, looks a good deal.
I have found the Pioneer LX 85 at £1,299 from Simply Electronics, although it comes with a one year guarantee.
http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mainproduct.php?pid=14951&sd=specs
Has anyone bought from them? They don't appear to have any seller ratings.
Together with the Pioneer BDP LX 55 at £259 comes around at £1,558, looks a good deal.
Unpublished - Duplicate post
Thank You Big Boss For the Link.
I have found the Pioneer LX 85 at £1,299 from Simply Electronics, although it comes with a one year guarantee.
http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mainproduct.php?pid=14951&sd=specs
Has anyone bought from them? They don't appear to have any seller ratings.
Together with the Pioneer BDP LX 55 at £259 comes around at £1,558, looks a good deal.
Thank You Big Boss For the Link.
I have found the Pioneer LX 85 at £1,299 from Simply Electronics, although it comes with a one year guarantee.
http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mainproduct.php?pid=14951&sd=specs
Has anyone bought from them? They don't appear to have any seller ratings.
Together with the Pioneer BDP LX 55 at £259 comes around at £1,558, looks a good deal.
bigboss
Moderator
Simply Electronics is registered in Hong Kong & ARE NOT authorised dealers. The warranty won't be honoured. Don't bother with it.
Check this:
http://www.hotukdeals.com/misc/simply-electronics-a-warning-391698
Check this:
http://www.hotukdeals.com/misc/simply-electronics-a-warning-391698
I can't comment on the partnering kit, or Simply Electronics, but I think that under EU law, consumer electronics have to come with a minimum of 2 years guarantee now, and have done for several years. This link to an AV Forum has an interesting article from the Guardian posted about half way down:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/xbox-360-hardware/475729-2-year-warranty-standard-eu-law.html
Cheers
http://www.avforums.com/forums/xbox-360-hardware/475729-2-year-warranty-standard-eu-law.html
Cheers
Just clicked BigBoss' link, obviously my post above is irrelevant because they are outside of the EU - doh!
Hi Tecky,
I recently returned my Pioneer, as it was the second one I had that had the same firmware issues. Freezing during pause and locking up on a regular basis. I was tempted by the Denon, but after a demonstration, I bought the Oppo BDP93EU.
Stunning pictures and sound, a league above the Pioneer (when it worked), and it looks far more classy in the flesh, than the photos.
I recently returned my Pioneer, as it was the second one I had that had the same firmware issues. Freezing during pause and locking up on a regular basis. I was tempted by the Denon, but after a demonstration, I bought the Oppo BDP93EU.
Stunning pictures and sound, a league above the Pioneer (when it worked), and it looks far more classy in the flesh, than the photos.
Thank You For Your Comments Big Boss, BicandBob and PeterW,
Went for a Demo but the Denon 2012 needed a firmware update therefore could not play my Blu Ray and 3D Discs, so the salesman has offered me to loan the two players. Still waiting for them.
I must admit the Pioneer BDP LX 55 was impressive on the Audio as well as the visual aspects but I suppose it would appear impressive when you have an expensive projector doing the work on the visual.
Therefore best to try at home on my Plasma.
I was able to listen to the sound of both the players which were linked to the Pioneer LX 82 as the Pioneer LX 85 was not working.
The Pioneer BDP LX55 sound appeared more livelier than the Denon 2012 which sounded more refined. I must admit the Pioneer sounded better than the Denon. They say that Denon are experts on the sound department but it came a close second for me.
Still not come to a conclusion yet as I still need to look at the pictures on the two players.
Big Boss raises an interesting point about non EU retailers providing a dodgy service and a 1 year guarantee. There is a company called RGB Direct which are authorised Pioneer dealers offering only One Year Guarantee. There is also a comapny called ChatandVision providing a poor service whilst undercutting the other retailers. They all must be non EU registered companies.
The Oppo BDP LX 93 is a good player as it probably shares the same DNA as the Oppo BDP 95. I dont know how it will sound partnering the Pioneer LX 85? If I had loads of dosh I would go for the Oppo BDP 95 without hesitation.
Normally you get what you pay for but at the moment the Pioneer is giving the Denon a run for it's money even though it is £200 approx cheaper!
Went for a Demo but the Denon 2012 needed a firmware update therefore could not play my Blu Ray and 3D Discs, so the salesman has offered me to loan the two players. Still waiting for them.
I must admit the Pioneer BDP LX 55 was impressive on the Audio as well as the visual aspects but I suppose it would appear impressive when you have an expensive projector doing the work on the visual.
Therefore best to try at home on my Plasma.
I was able to listen to the sound of both the players which were linked to the Pioneer LX 82 as the Pioneer LX 85 was not working.
The Pioneer BDP LX55 sound appeared more livelier than the Denon 2012 which sounded more refined. I must admit the Pioneer sounded better than the Denon. They say that Denon are experts on the sound department but it came a close second for me.
Still not come to a conclusion yet as I still need to look at the pictures on the two players.
Big Boss raises an interesting point about non EU retailers providing a dodgy service and a 1 year guarantee. There is a company called RGB Direct which are authorised Pioneer dealers offering only One Year Guarantee. There is also a comapny called ChatandVision providing a poor service whilst undercutting the other retailers. They all must be non EU registered companies.
The Oppo BDP LX 93 is a good player as it probably shares the same DNA as the Oppo BDP 95. I dont know how it will sound partnering the Pioneer LX 85? If I had loads of dosh I would go for the Oppo BDP 95 without hesitation.
Normally you get what you pay for but at the moment the Pioneer is giving the Denon a run for it's money even though it is £200 approx cheaper!
bigboss
Moderator
Tecky said:
Don't forget that you're going to buy a high end AV receiver which will decode at least as good as (likely better than) either of the two players, or most other players for that matter. Picture quality, & more importantly DVD upscaling, is where you should look for comparison.
RGB Direct is a UK company based in Ilford. You can safely buy from them.
If you want to buy from Chat & Vision, better buy from their Amazon store. Their website looks dodgy to me, with no registered address that I could find. You'll get Amazon protection if you buy from Amazon.co.uk.
Both Oppo 93 & 95 are the same on video performance. The 95 offers superior audio performance. But I would consider that only if I'm not happy with my current setup's audio quality.
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