Picking a budget amp

[Spiderpigg]

Hello all,

I am picking a budget-friendly amp and I would like to know your opinions. Here are some candidates at the moment:
- NAD C328 (used, 350 €)
- Marantz PM6005 (used, 300 €)
- Yamaha S-A301 (new, 400 €)
- Older amp like Sony TA-F 530 ES (used, about 150-200 €)

The system will be used for music listening in my 5x4 m living room. It's going to drive Dali Zensors 1, with a possible later upgrade to Zensor 3 or similar. I am going to add a Wiim Mini for Airplay streaming and use its digital output (except with Sony where only analogue connection is possible).

Currently I have a little Denon M39 with the Zensors and I find them quite nice, although slightly inclined to the bright side, presumably because of the Denon signature.

WHF dislikes NAD C338, although other reviews seem to praise it. C328 is the only one here with class D and, judging by many online sources, there should not be a noticeable difference in SQ vs. the AB class in this price range nowadays. Marantz seems like a good bet also. Yamaha wins with the looks and has quite good opinions in the value-for-money section. ES is here because of the occasional nice comments and the lower price that also allows for upgrade in some other element.

What do you think?

 

[Al ears]

Is the Wiim mini going to be your only source of music!
Whatever you go for I would suggest you buy new with warranty or ex-demo with warranty.

 

[Spiderpigg]

Wiim and the TV for now. TV preferably with toslink, which is why the NAD, with it’s two optical inputs, has a slight advantage here.

 

[Al ears]

Wiim and the TV for now. TV preferably with tosslink, which is why the NAD, with it’s two optical inputs, has a slight advantage here.

As you say that limits your choice a bit.

 

[Spiderpigg]

As you say that limits your choice a bit.

Having the TV connected through RCA would not hurt too much, so I don’t consider it a condition to really decide here. A good tip anyway, thanks.

 

[Al ears]

Having the TV connected through RCA would not hurt too much, so I don’t consider it a condition to really decide here. A good tip anyway, thanks.

Obviously if connecting anything with a digital output the amp has to have an inbuilt DAC but, assuming you have enough connections there's plenty of choice these days.
the new Marantz PM6007 should be available within your budget.

 

[Noddy]

Another one for consideration:

Review and Measurements of Yamaha WXA-50 Streaming Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Yamaha WXA-50, multi-function DAC, pre-amp, power amp, streaming and multi-room unit. It is on kind loan from a member. Even though it came out a few years ago (2016?), it is widely available. Amazon shows it costs US $478. Success of SONOS...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I have not heard or seen one. But it has streaming built in.

 

[jjbomber]

WHF dislikes NAD C338, although other reviews seem to praise it.

What do you think?

Totally irrelevant what WHF thinks. It's YOUR music, YOUR ears and YOUR money. If you prefer the sound of the NAD and it has the features you need, away to go.

 

[Noddy]

Totally irrelevant what WHF thinks. It's YOUR music, YOUR ears and YOUR money. If you prefer the sound of the NAD and it has the features you need, away to go.

For what it’s worth, I bought an Arcam Movie Solo largely on the strength of a WHF review. It was awful, mediocre sound and awful UI, and it broke after five years, I bought some speakers partly on the basis of a WHF review, they were okay but not so brilliant. I bought Audeze Sine headphones which WHF did not much like, they were amazing. But build quality was poor, I now ignore WHF reviews as they are useless. In fairness to them, I generally find magazine reviews useless. Unless there are measurements, they are no more than personal opinion. I go by measurements first, then ears second.

 

[12th Monkey]

tosslink

One too many 'S's there!

 

[Spiderpigg]

For what it’s worth, I bought an Arcam Movie Solo largely on the strength of a WHF review. It was awful, mediocre sound and awful UI, and it broke after five years, I bought some speakers partly on the basis of a WHF review, they were okay but not so brilliant. I bought Audeze Sine headphones which WHF did not much like, they were amazing. But build quality was poor, I now ignore WHF reviews as they are useless. In fairness to them, I generally find magazine reviews useless. Unless there are measurements, they are no more than personal opinion. I go by measurements first, then ears second.

Thanks @Noddy, I think this is just the confirmation that I needed

 

[Spiderpigg]

Obviously if connecting anything with a digital output the amp has to have an inbuilt DAC but, assuming you have enough connections there's plenty of choice these days.
the new Marantz PM6007 should be available within your budget.

Indeed, PM6007 ticks all the boxes. The thing is, in my area it's not frequent to come by as a used item with reasonable price. The new one hangs slightly above the price point I am aiming for. But It's not about the price really, but the fact that I just don't expect some noticeable improvement in sound between PM6005 (+Wiim) and PM6007. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Spiderpigg]

One too many 'S's there!

Corrected, thanks for noticing 🤷‍♂️

 

[Spiderpigg]

Another one for consideration:

Review and Measurements of Yamaha WXA-50 Streaming Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Yamaha WXA-50, multi-function DAC, pre-amp, power amp, streaming and multi-room unit. It is on kind loan from a member. Even though it came out a few years ago (2016?), it is widely available. Amazon shows it costs US $478. Success of SONOS...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I have not heard or seen one. But it has streaming built in.

Thanks for the suggestion! You are probably correct, a solution like that may cover the majority of my needs. There are also somewhat similar products from Marantz, Denon, I think even NAD, possibly other brands as well. Just like you, I haven't gone through the effort of finding and listening to one, but I just skipped the whole category. One reason is that from some reviews and comments I am under the impression that these all-in-one systems sonically underperform when compared to (any but perhaps the entry-level) standalone integrated amps. That said, another purely subjective and possibly illogical reason is that I already own an all-in-one so moving to another feels less like an upgrade than moving to a standalone.

 

[matthewpianist]

Marantz is certainly a strong bet for synergy with your Dali speakers, and will scale up easily should you eventually decide to change them.

Look at the NAD D3020. It has good connectivity and has petty much the ideal sound signature to balance out that slightly tilted-up treble of the Zensors.

 

[Spiderpigg]

Marantz is certainly a strong bet for synergy with your Dali speakers, and will scale up easily should you eventually decide to change them.

Look at the NAD D3020. It has good connectivity and has petty much the ideal sound signature to balance out that slightly tilted-up treble of the Zensors.

These are both good points, thanks. Regarding the D3020 (v2?) the difference to C328 seem to be not too big. I don't have an opportunity to listen to both, but according to descriptions and comments, the D3020 should be only a little warmer in the sound signature. Other differences that are relevant to me are somewhat lower power and one less optical input. I stumbled upon a comment where somebody tried both. C328 was said to be slightly better. I will add D3020 to the short list anyway.

And Marantz, yeah... little by little it just becomes a more sensible choice.

 

[Noddy]

Thanks for the suggestion! You are probably correct, a solution like that may cover the majority of my needs. There are also somewhat similar products from Marantz, Denon, I think even NAD, possibly other brands as well. Just like you, I haven't gone through the effort of finding and listening to one, but I just skipped the whole category. One reason is that from some reviews and comments I am under the impression that these all-in-one systems sonically underperform when compared to (any but perhaps the entry-level) standalone integrated amps. That said, another purely subjective and possibly illogical reason is that I already own an all-in-one so moving to another feels less like an upgrade than moving to a standalone.

I am sure you are right, my Arcam is an all in one device, and I feel it does not come anywhere near a separate amp in terms of sound quality, and yet it was £2,000 before clearances sales.

I have an integrated amp with an internal dac and photo stage, and the amp and dac are very good indeed (confirmed by measurement). I personally would not call an amp with a built in streamer an all in one device, others here might disagree. Throw in a CD player or a radio, then I would call in an all in one box.

For me the issue with all in one devices is firstly that the quality will be inferior unless you pay the equivalent of separates price, in which case why not buy separates. Secondly they are often compact, and I worry about excess heat. My Arcam got rather warm if not hot. Thirdly if one part fails, such as the CDT, you have to buy a new separate or throw it away. The analogue inputs and headphone output on my Arcam have failed.

Sorry, I’ve probably written far too much.

 

[TrevC]

Hello all,

I am picking a budget-friendly amp and I would like to know your opinions. Here are some candidates at the moment:
- NAD C328 (used, 350 €)
- Marantz PM6005 (used, 300 €)
- Yamaha S-A301 (new, 400 €)
- Older amp like Sony TA-F 530 ES (used, about 150-200 €)

The system will be used for music listening in my 5x4 m living room. It's going to drive Dali Zensors 1, with a possible later upgrade to Zensor 3 or similar. I am going to add a Wiim Mini for Airplay streaming and use its digital output (except with Sony where only analogue connection is possible).

Currently I have a little Denon M39 with the Zensors and I find them quite nice, although slightly inclined to the bright side, presumably because of the Denon signature.

WHF dislikes NAD C338, although other reviews seem to praise it. C328 is the only one here with class D and, judging by many online sources, there should not be a noticeable difference in SQ vs. the AB class in this price range nowadays. Marantz seems like a good bet also. Yamaha wins with the looks and has quite good opinions in the value-for-money section. ES is here because of the occasional nice comments and the lower price that also allows for upgrade in some other element.

What do you think?

You are unlikely to hear much if any difference between amplifiers. Go for the reputable manufacturer and the amp you like the look of.

 

[Noddy]

You are unlikely to hear much if any difference between amplifiers. Go for the reputable manufacturer and the amp you like the look of.

I have an Arcam Solo Movie and an AudioLab 6000a. The differences are very obvious, the Arcam is awful. I used to have a Teac Reference 300 amp and an Arcam Solo Mini amp, both sounded fine, the Teac seemed quite bright and scratchy. These are just my subjective impressions. It is possible that modern amps are much more consistent, people familiar with the amps you list will be more helpful.

 

[Spiderpigg]

I went for the NAD c328. The first impression was very good in almost all areas. So far, I found the majority of negative comments to be false or refer to some details of no significance.

In lack of serious experience with other amps, I can only compare it to the Denon M39 that I was using until now.
The bass feels more tight now. Also, feels like the bass range is shifted a little towards lower frequencies. I don't know if that is possible, given the fact that I am still using it with the same Dali Zensors, but that is my impression. Treble is now more present but not in any uncomfortable way. It sounds more crisp and not harsh. I think that soundstage is wider as well. Perhaps a bit more forward, but very very clear. After a few days of listening to NAD, I had a thought that I was missing some mids and that Denon's sound might have been better in that area, so I shortly swapped back to M39. Then I noticed really how much better the NAD sounds. I also found that by just slightly reducing the EQ around 4kHz I can get a bit softer, sweet and full image.

So currently I am quite happy. I am using Deezer HiFi stream via Airplay (wifi) to Wiim, then Wiim's optical output set to 192kHz/24bit into NAD's DAC. There's another optical input that is now used by TV, which completes everything that I need from the amp right now.

If I find a good deal some day at some discount or a used offer, I plan to get a silver version of Yamaha's A-S 301 or 501. They look good and I want to try one. You know, for science.

Thanks everyone for your comments and help in making a good choice!

 

[Spiderpigg]

I am sure you are right, my Arcam is an all in one device, and I feel it does not come anywhere near a separate amp in terms of sound quality, and yet it was £2,000 before clearances sales.

I have an integrated amp with an internal dac and photo stage, and the amp and dac are very good indeed (confirmed by measurement). I personally would not call an amp with a built in streamer an all in one device, others here might disagree. Throw in a CD player or a radio, then I would call in an all in one box.

For me the issue with all in one devices is firstly that the quality will be inferior unless you pay the equivalent of separates price, in which case why not buy separates. Secondly they are often compact, and I worry about excess heat. My Arcam got rather warm if not hot. Thirdly if one part fails, such as the CDT, you have to buy a new separate or throw it away. The analogue inputs and headphone output on my Arcam have failed.

Sorry, I’ve probably written far too much.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. For some reason I imagined that a Yamaha that you recommended also had a CD, and I referred to it in that way. I completely agree that an amp with DAC should in most discussions not be considered an all-in-one.

To be completely honest, I am not sure that at this moment I would even notice some significant difference in sound quality between a good all in one and a mediocre separate. But I guess that discussing the sound is not only about sound, it is about principles. 🙂

 

[Noddy]

So currently I am quite happy. I am using Deezer HiFi stream via Airplay (wifi) to Wiim, then Wiim's optical output set to 192kHz/24bit into NAD's DAC. There's another optical input that is now used by TV, which completes everything that I need from the amp right now.

You can use the Deezer app directly, no need to use Airplay. This has the advantage that rather than the stream going from your router to your Apple device, then to the Wiim Mini, it just goes straight from the router to the Wiim Mini. You halve the wifi bandwidth usage. Of course you might be doing this already without realising it.

 

[Noddy]

To be completely honest, I am not sure that at this moment I would even notice some significant difference in sound quality between a good all in one and a mediocre separate.

Yesterday I played the Arcam again, prior to sending it off to a buyer, and actually the difference compared to the AudioLab is more subtle than I thought, more of a colouration. I wish I knew what caused it. But honestly your ears adapt anyway. My main gripe about the Arcam is poor reliability and poor UI.

 

[Gray]

Yesterday I played the Arcam again, prior to sending it off to a buyer,
My main gripe about the Arcam is poor reliability and poor UI.

Your buyer's in for a treat then 👍

 

[Spiderpigg]

You can use the Deezer app directly, no need to use Airplay. This has the advantage that rather than the stream going from your router to your Apple device, then to the Wiim Mini, it just goes straight from the router to the Wiim Mini. You halve the wifi bandwidth usage. Of course you might be doing this already without realising it.

You are correct here. The engineer in me wants to stream directly to Wiim only to avoid the redundant double traffic through the network switch. It is the right way .
But I'm lazy and kind of used to Deezer UI. I did the math before, and even with the double traffic, the load to the total 5GHz wifi bandwidth should be neglectable - something like 10Mbps (Deezer) out of 200-1k Mbps (total BW). So far - so good, and if I run into any issues with it, I'll change. Thanks for the tip though!