PERFORMANCE BETWEEN HIGH END & BUDGET HIFI

[omnibeard]

And I can hear it - not sure why I'm feeling so pleased with myself.

But can you hear the didgeridoo?

 

[the record spot]

So basing a good music system on the retriveval of an Elvis song which was not recorded properly due wrong mic placement is very lame indeed.

IMO. A well chosen system should have stunning detail without losing it's musicality or becoming analytical.....in fact it would be a must for me.

beat me to it CNO! I agree completely. one isn't the enemy of the other. if it is there's something wrong with the gear.

You know, earlier I thought that you might have missed omnibeards irony. Now I'm sure of it.

:doh:

still, I stand by what I said. he does seem to know what he's talking about.

I'm sure he does. Placing too much store in one's own capabilities or beliefs is another thing. I don't doubt an expensive stereo costing a fortune is highly revealing. So too thanks to current design capabilities and economies of scale is much much cheaper gear. iPod Touch included...

 

[moon]

But can you hear the didgeridoo?

give me another hour ........ and I guess I might!

 

[CnoEvil]

Easy to answer this. July 21st 1955 - Elvis laid down the monumental Trying To Get To You. One of the worst quality surviving Sun tapes, the master no longer exists (some releases have used a mint Sun 78 as the source) but Sony has restored this as much as possible, and has created a new digital master from a transter to an RCA IPS 30 tape, however, it's still full of compression from tape wear, age and rubbish DR compression applied by RCA in 1956 for release on the eponymous LP "Elvis Presley'. Trying To Get To You is the first Elvis recording to feature a piano - played by Elvis himself - but it is inaudible as it wasn't miked correctly (and not erased by Sam Phillips as was long thought). You can however hear the vestiges of Elvis playing through leakage on the slapback dry echo tape - but you need a damned transparent and revealing hifi to hear it. You could argue if your hifi can't produce the piano, then it's not hifi as it's on the tape. I guarantee few hifis can reveal it...

And I can hear it - not sure why I'm feeling so pleased with myself.

You Golden Eared little devil, you!

 

[the record spot]

:doh:

still, I stand by what I said. he does seem to know what he's talking about.

Well then he's probably on the wrong forum!

Which forum should he be on ?

The Hoffman one. No question!

 

[omnibeard]

I'm sure he does. Placing too much store in one's own capabilities or beliefs is another thing. I don't doubt an expensive stereo costing a fortune is highly revealing. So too thanks to current design capabilities and economies of scale is much much cheaper gear. iPod Touch included...

Stating opinion as fact, as S.Coates can be prone to doing, does seem...

Futile, fatuous and juvenile.

Don't you think?

 

[CnoEvil]

And I can hear it - not sure why I'm feeling so pleased with myself.

But can you hear the didgeridoo?

I didgeridont!

 

[omnibeard]

I didgeridont!

Come on man, on your set up you must be able to hear both the didgeridoos!

 

[CnoEvil]

Well then he's probably on the wrong forum!

Which forum should he be on ?

A serious one, with serious people using serious systems! :rockout:

 

[plastic penguin]

You can however hear the vestiges of Elvis playing through leakage on the slapback dry echo tape - but you need a damned transparent and revealing hifi to hear it. You could argue if your hifi can't produce the piano, then it's not hifi as it's on the tape. I guarantee few hifis can reveal it...

Or your hearing's not so good and you miss it. Anyway, I've ordered the CD (the non-Copy Protection one). Presuambly then, you've been round most hifis in order to be able to make that kind of statement? I'd suggest you may be a tad more over-confident about the abilities of some "lesser" equipment. Especially today, or of the last twenty years.

is this supposed to be a serious response? I'm an engineer who works on acoustic submarine weapons systems...My father was a recording engineer, built hi-fi equipment and was an expert in concert hall acoustics - so I've been around hifi and music all my life. I'm also an expert on Elvis recordings sessions (intimately familiar with every take, every restoration process, every bit of sound that is and isn't on the master types or newest generation of copy available) -I have 20,000 Elvis albums and cds and have engaged at length with Ernst Jørgensen and the world's greatest recording engineer Vic Anesini...

What you do for a living (or your parents or labrador dog) is irrelevent. Surely if a system, regardless of price, puts a big smile of your face then that's all that matters.

 

[chebby]

Searched for the 'Elvis Presley' [Remastered] eponymous album on iTunes and selected 'Trying To Get To You' to play the 90 second sample via AirPlay. (Most of the track in this case.)

No big problem hearing the piano via Marantz/Rega R3s although I had to deliberately listen for it at first.

Tried again with wife's Grado SR60i headphones. Even better! Didn't have to consciously 'try' to hear it at all. There it was, plain as day.

Thanks whoever first decided to challenge this. I just accepted it on the 'authority' of a man who is...

...an expert on Elvis recordings sessions (intimately familiar with every take, every restoration process, every bit of sound that is and isn't on the master types or newest generation of copy available) -I have 20,000 Elvis albums and cds and have engaged at length with Ernst Jørgensen and the world's greatest recording engineer Vic Anesini...

 

[CnoEvil]

I didgeridont!

Come on man, on your set up you must be able to hear both the didgeridoos!

Well I didgeridont, didgeridont.........as I'm watching the golf! :doh:

 

[Overdose]

Searched for the 'Elvis Presley' [Remastered] eponymous album on iTunes and selected 'Trying To Get To You' to play the 90 second sample via AirPlay. (Most of the track in this case.)

No big problem hearing the piano via Marantz/Rega R3s although I had to deliberately listen for it at first.

Tried again with wife's Grado SR60i headphones. Even better! Didn't have to consciously 'try' to hear it at all. There it was, plain as day.

Thanks whoever first decided to challenge this. I just accepted it on the 'authority' of a man who is...

...an expert on Elvis recordings sessions (intimately familiar with every take, every restoration process, every bit of sound that is and isn't on the master types or newest generation of copy available) -I have 20,000 Elvis albums and cds and have engaged at length with Ernst Jørgensen and the world's greatest recording engineer Vic Anesini...

Try listening to THIS on whatever you are browsing with by the way.

Well, it's been mentioned before, that guy knows his onions.

 

[omnibeard]

Well, it's been mentioned before, that guy knows his onions.

But does he know his skillets from his sauciers?

 

[CnoEvil]

Well, it's been mentioned before, that guy knows his onions.

But does he know his skillets from his sauciers?

If he doesn't, he's in the right place - "What Skillet (Saucier and Wok)"

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

seeing that everybody is in a mood for testing detail retrieval of their hi-fis I thought I'd give you another challenge. there's this tune "Is Jesus your pal" by Gus-Gus from album "Polydistortion". around 55' when the girl starts to sing again you can hear very faint sound her lips made opening. but can you? no dubious quality recordings from mid last century this time. who's on?

 

[omnibeard]

I think that's just someone oiling their wok.

 

[CnoEvil]

I think that's just someone oiling their wok.

Wok are you on about?...Your system is crying out for that new amp! :twisted:

 

[John Duncan]

Anyway:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/off-topic-and-miscellaneous/elvis-is-rubbish

 

[Anonymous]

OK, I can put together a system with an £800 analogue source, £500 worth of amplification and £500 speakers, £50 in cables, £0 in supports and stands.

How easy do you think it would be to tell the difference between my £1850 system and say a £30,000 Linn high end LP12SE, Klimax Kontrol, fully Aktive 4200 power amps, Majik Isobarik system?

I reckon your system would probably be at least as good.

Thank you. Nice answer.

The reality is that it's very easy to notice the difference between these 2 systems. It's the sort of difference that hits you in the face as soon as you listen to them. Better source, better amplification, better speakers. They all add up to a large, easily noticeable difference.

But that's only because I've cheated.

Studer A807 playing 15 ips master tapes or master tape copies or 7.5 ips radio broadcast tapes, Pioneer SF-700 active crossover, a pair of Urei 6290 amps into Bozak Symphony speakers. All 2nd hand.

Poor Linn system. Doesn't stand a chance against that. :rofl:

I can't say I've ever heard of any of them to be honest

For me, it's all about the speakers, as they affect sound quality far more than any other componants, IMO, and I believe you can get excellent sound from many that cost less than £1250, all that I have in mind being active. Sure, you're going to get more bass and greater scale/presence from bigger, more expensive speakers that are driven by suitably powerful amplification (which needn't be expensive), but I don't think there's going to be that much difference in overall sound quality. The law of diminishing returns kicks in extremely low down the money scale with HiFi, IMO.

Based on what listening experience though?

Well, not much that would be called high end, from a cost point of view, though I've heard some relatively cheap speakers that I felt sounded brilliant. As I said, I think what you're getting from bigger, more expensive speakers, is greater scale and bass, which may not be necessary for your average sized living room.

Take Adam audio as an example, their £700 A7X active studio monitors come with the same, brilliant X Art ribbon tweeters that are found in their "high end" active speakers that cost many thousands of pounds, what differs going up the price scale is the size/amount of drivers, and boxes, and thus bass and scale will be greater as you move up the range. But if you don't live in a converted barn or a mansion you might well be happy with the A7X's. Would a pair of Adam Tensors be that much better? Or are they just a different option for a bigger space? Is one high end and the other not?

 

[SteveR750]

And so S Coates is duly hung. Unlucky fella.

 

[floyd droid]

And so S Coates is duly hung. Unlucky fella.

And also thanks to the saddos that ran around like bafs sussing out the Elvis track, and by all accounts actually hearing what Mr C was going on about, i feel it is now safe to announce that..........

The High End HiFi industry is doomed.

Now ,where did i put my Alba tower system ? :shifty:.

 

[SteveR750]

And so S Coates is duly hung. Unlucky fella.

And also thanks to the saddos that ran around like bafs sussing out the Elvis track, and by all accounts actually hearing what Mr C was going on about, i feel it is now safe to announce that..........

The High End HiFi industry is doomed.

Now ,where did i put my Alba tower system ? :shifty:.

Shouldn't that be Onkyo receiver?

 

[the record spot]

Whatever it is I can' t help hoping that it's where the sun doesn't shine...

 

[Anonymous]

Back to the original point of this - Isn't it a case of diminishing returns?

There is a marked difference in build and sound quality from a £300 to a £3000 system, and ( probably ) a similar gulf between a£3000 and a £30000 system, but there is probably less difference between a £3000 and a £5000 system.

Budgetary constraints are a bit of a moving target, my system would be considered budget to people on hifi forums, whereas most of my friends think I've spent a fortune. Horses and courses.

I like my system, it works for me, I couldn't comment or criticise on hugely expensive systems as I haven't heard any. I wouldn't deride anybody that has made that choice no more than I'd deride the opinion of somebody who's happy with their 'cheap as chips' system, if it floats your boat.........