PERFORMANCE BETWEEN HIGH END & BUDGET HIFI

[Native_bon]

Hey guys just been doin a lot of listen & research. Seems to me now adays there is a very fine line between high end & budget hifi. Having been to so many hifi shops in london over the last fews weeks come to the conclusion the difference is sound quality is very little, especially with source components. I for one think its mainly about taste of sound rather than sound quality.

Even if you buy hifi component these days for a grand you will need to spend any thing up to & above 4 grand to really get a jump in sound quality. Then again you could get the same, or kind of sound you like if you pair the one grand component with appropriate Hifi component. So got me thinking is it jsut about pride & may be style of the Hifi that really matters.

Discuss. Cheers.

 

[SteveR750]

Hey guys just been doin a lot of listen & research. Seems to me now adays there is a very fine line between high end & budget hifi. Having been to so many hifi shops in london over the last fews weeks come to the conclusion the difference is sound quality is very little, especially with source components. I for one think its mainly about taste of sound rather than sound quality.

Even if you buy hifi component these days for a grand you will need to spend any thing up to & above 4 grand to really get a jump in sound quality. Then again you could get the same, or kind of sound you like if you pair the one grand component with appropriate Hifi component. So got me thinking is it jsut about pride & may be style of the Hifi that really matters.

Discuss. Cheers.

I'm inclined to agree - I'm still amazed at how good my phone sounds playing spotify through a pair of Beyer dynamic earbud phones. I don't think as a hobby it really stands rational analysis, but hey, you pays your money you takes your choice.

 

[CnoEvil]

What budget are you allowing for low end vs that for high end; and for meaningful comment, can you give examples of budget systems which you've heard that competed with highend ones?

I've certainly heard cheaper systems that I've preferred to much more expensive ones, but one shouldn't insinuate anything from this ie. That all high end systems don't deliver over budget ones.

 

[Native_bon]

I never said budget sounds better, just say the gap in performance has narrowed dwn a lot. Some times I even question if the little improvement is really worth it.. In the real sense if u want really noticable improvement all things being equal, you will need to upgrade all components. Now you talking 10 grand & above. Eg I had a listen at the rega dac & Audio lab to chord to rega turn tables. Also I happen to listen to anthem 225 amp which was also very close to amps costing 3x the price. Also the the Cambridge audio's 851C & 851A is just silly valve for money. Again its a matter of taste.

 

[marou]

Although I doubt if my judgment could cope with assessing different systems in different establishments on different days, the OP's point is well made. But other rationales are at play, I think, when it comes hifi which probably deserve a thread of their own - what do we really expect from this expensive and to most people incomprehensible hobby (few of my friends are interested which is probably why I frequent this and other hifi forums)? I like the Naim sound well enough but I'm buying a superuniti because I want an all-in-one system with a tuner which will put the cost of upgrading out of my reach. I suspect a Linn system would sound better but the Naim meets other just as important criteria. I don't think my approach is unique.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry but this is complete nonsense. There is little or no bad hifi kit these days - well, other than phones, I find it bizarre that anyone can claim any phone is even remotely a hifi product - and there is some truly excellent budget kit available but subject to the semantics of how you would describe high end - My Chord pre & power amps, cd player and M&D speakers cost me around £20K, is it a great system for the money? Yes, it's brilliant. Is It high end? Well, debatable when I've also owned a single set of speakers costing more than that. With respect, just because you are unable to tell the difference, or more acurately, what you call a 'fine line', doesn't mean that the difference doesn't exist. That you appear to think differences aren't worth price differentials, that's your prerogative but others do in terms of dynamics, neutrality, transparency, control etc etc. If I could live with the drawbacks of a £1000 integrated amp, I wouldn't have spent £10k on amps...Your argument is no different to saying there is a 'fine line' between my Audi TT RS and an R8, when clearly there is a huge difference, but I don't want to spend £90k on a car and to me the improvements based upon my requirements aren't woth double the price - but the important qualifier is 'my requirements'. To say there is an unqualified (linked to budget, expectations and requirements etc) absolute 'fine line' between something like a Pioneer A70 (a great amp for the money) and £10k worth of Chords, well, as I said, it's nonsense...the gulf is enormous, as there is between the two Audis...

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry but this is complete nonsense. There is little or no bad hifi kit these days - well, other than phones, I find it bizarre that anyone can claim any phone is even remotely a hifi product - and there is some truly excellent budget kit available but subject to the semantics of how you would describe high end - My Chord pre & power amps, cd player and M&D speakers cost me around £20K, is it a great system for the money? Yes, it's brilliant. Is It high end? Well, debatable when I've also owned a single set of speakers costing more than that. With respect, just because you are unable to tell the difference, or more acurately, what you call a 'fine line', doesn't mean that the difference doesn't exist. That you appear to think differences aren't worth price differentials, that's your prerogative but others do in terms of dynamics, neutrality, transparency, control etc etc. If I could live with the drawbacks of a £1000 integrated amp, I wouldn't have spent £10k on amps...Your argument is no different to saying there is a 'fine line' between my Audi TT RS and an R8, when clearly there is a huge difference, but I don't want to spend £90k on a car and to me the improvements based upon my requirements aren't woth double the price - but the important qualifier is 'my requirements'. To say there is an unqualified (linked to budget, expectations and requirements etc) absolute 'fine line' between something like a Pioneer A70 (a great amp for the money) and £10k worth of Chords, well, as I said, it's nonsense...the gulf is enormous, as there is between the two Audis...

 

[Native_bon]

Well u have the money to spend on Hifi equipment costing 20 grand thats ur right. you have the money you spend it the way u see fit. I have ears & I can use them to hear difference in sound quality & I say it as I hear it. Expensive does not always equal better sound!!

 

[hoopsontoast]

If you buy second hand, IMO and IME you can get 'high end' for under £1k.

I would say, my setup is high end in that I dont think I could take it much further with my room, and spending more would not bring any improvements (apart from maybe room treatments or DEQ etc).

Its cost me about £1k over a period of time, and does some things better than most stuff I have heard (Bass depth and SPL are certainly not) but integration, soundstage, balance (with a new sub) and just 'Listenablilty' are as good as anything.

IMO and IME.

 

[moon]

I'm sorry but this is complete nonsense. There is little or no bad hifi kit these days - well, other than phones, I find it bizarre that anyone can claim any phone is even remotely a hifi product - and there is some truly excellent budget kit available but subject to the semantics of how you would describe high end - My Chord pre & power amps, cd player and M&D speakers cost me around £20K, is it a great system for the money? Yes, it's brilliant. Is It high end? Well, debatable when I've also owned a single set of speakers costing more than that. With respect, just because you are unable to tell the difference, or more acurately, what you call a 'fine line', doesn't mean that the difference doesn't exist. That you appear to think differences aren't worth price differentials, that's your prerogative but others do in terms of dynamics, neutrality, transparency, control etc etc. If I could live with the drawbacks of a £1000 integrated amp, I wouldn't have spent £10k on amps...Your argument is no different to saying there is a 'fine line' between my Audi TT RS and an R8, when clearly there is a huge difference, but I don't want to spend £90k on a car and to me the improvements based upon my requirements aren't woth double the price - but the important qualifier is 'my requirements'. To say there is an unqualified (linked to budget, expectations and requirements etc) absolute 'fine line' between something like a Pioneer A70 (a great amp for the money) and £10k worth of Chords, well, as I said, it's nonsense...the gulf is enormous, as there is between the two Audis...

Just wondering, an iphone docked in a Cambridge audio id100 playing a lossless file connected to a Chord Dac, why is that not hi fidelity?

 

[Overdose]

I'm sorry but this is complete nonsense. There is little or no bad hifi kit these days - well, other than phones, I find it bizarre that anyone can claim any phone is even remotely a hifi product - and there is some truly excellent budget kit available but subject to the semantics of how you would describe high end - My Chord pre & power amps, cd player and M&D speakers cost me around £20K, is it a great system for the money? Yes, it's brilliant. Is It high end? Well, debatable when I've also owned a single set of speakers costing more than that. With respect, just because you are unable to tell the difference, or more acurately, what you call a 'fine line', doesn't mean that the difference doesn't exist. That you appear to think differences aren't worth price differentials, that's your prerogative but others do in terms of dynamics, neutrality, transparency, control etc etc. If I could live with the drawbacks of a £1000 integrated amp, I wouldn't have spent £10k on amps...Your argument is no different to saying there is a 'fine line' between my Audi TT RS and an R8, when clearly there is a huge difference, but I don't want to spend £90k on a car and to me the improvements based upon my requirements aren't woth double the price - but the important qualifier is 'my requirements'. To say there is an unqualified (linked to budget, expectations and requirements etc) absolute 'fine line' between something like a Pioneer A70 (a great amp for the money) and £10k worth of Chords, well, as I said, it's nonsense...the gulf is enormous, as there is between the two Audis...

Just wondering, an iphone docked in a Cambridge audio id100 playing a lossless file connected to a Chord Dac, why is that not hi fidelity?

Perhaps its just too cheap.

 

[Overdose]

I'm sorry but this is complete nonsense. There is little or no bad hifi kit these days - well, other than phones, I find it bizarre that anyone can claim any phone is even remotely a hifi product.

Why?

It's either high fidelity or not and price or equipment type is irrelevant.

'High-end' as a term, is merely the assumption of quality that comes at a high price, otherwise, meaningless.

EDIT: This also answers the OP.

 

[Native_bon]

Well I would ask the same question... you can get really good Hfi sound for really little money these days. To get the same sound just 10 years ago you would be paying 5 grand & above.. look at KEY'S LS50 speakers. After having a listen I think it's Excellent value for money. The competition is just so high hence better value for money HIFI!!

 

[stevebrock]

I've got an Audi A3 1.9tdi bog standard spec.......it's cheap.....not to me it isnt

To all intents and purposes my hifi set up is cheap............but hell it sounds goods to me and I have no inclination to 'upgrade' and spend more money I haven't got!

 

[Overdose]

I've got an Audi A3 1.9tdi bog standard spec.......

Stop showing off.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Budget equipment is better than it ever has been, but this has only brought it closer to mid priced hi-fi. There's still a huge gap between budget and high end hi-fi as far as quality is concerned (although as mentioned, price is no indication).

 

[CnoEvil]

This can get contentious very quickly. People who have a more budget system can sometimes think that "highend" is over priced and over hyped for what you get. Those who have a more elaborate system are convinced that a substantial gulf exists, which is certainly worth the extra money.

IMO There is better and worse in both sections, and the value one places on the difference between components, is too personal to definitively categorize. I just wish that I felt cheaper systems came close, as it would have been substantially cheaper!

My (very general) rule of thumb, is that you have to double the price you pay in order to get a worthwhile improvement.

 

[Anonymous]

Nothing to do with price, simply its made of cheap non-audio components designed for a list of priorities where the ability to ouput high quality sound through its own dac or as a transport was at the bottom of the list...

 

[matthewpiano]

I love my system which at best is a budget system with a mid-range turntable and CD player. It is capable of transfixing me when listening to music and I never once feel let down by it. It is certainly the best I can afford at present and I now feel no temptation to change any part of it. Got the new Efterklang album playing now and it sounds incredible.

However, I've heard a lot of more expensive kit and I think there are gains to be had with some higher end gear. Certainly my system comes nowhere near a Sugden system I once heard, or a UKD system made up of Opera and Unison Research components.

 

[Overdose]

Nothing to do with price, simply its made of cheap non-audio components designed for a list of priorities where the ability to ouput high quality sound through its own dac or as a transport was at the bottom of the list...

So that would be something to do with price then?

 

[Anonymous]

Overdose, that's blatantly an idiotic response - because what does high fidelity mean? I think it would be easy to ascribe a definition in terms of transparency, control, soundstaging, tonality etc which would discount most mid-range and mid-priced equipment...

 

[Overdose]

Thats an idiotic response - because what does high fidelity mean? I think it would be easy to ascribe a definition in terms of transparency, control, soundstaging, tonality etc which would discount most mid-range and mid-priced equipment...

By what measure?

 

[matthewpiano]

Oh, not the semantics argument again.

 

[Anonymous]

Nothing to do with price, simply its made of cheap non-audio components designed for a list of priorities where the ability to ouput high quality sound through its own dac or as a transport was at the bottom of the list...

So that would be something to do with price then?

Was debating whether this was even worth responding to, another non-sensical response by you but not sure whether it's out of ignorance or deliberate misleading. The point regarding price was clearly meant in context of a retail price (ie reference to it being too cheap) not with the quality of the innards of the phone - now, if you'd like me to explain to you the dynamics of the mobile phone pricing model (or more gernally the account structures of the word 'price') I will or you can go and research it...

 

[Native_bon]

so who said mid priced HIFI cannot do sound staging & all the rest... even when you spend twice as much to improve sound quality, does not always mean better sound it could just mean sounding different..? My piont is budget hifi is giving high end a run for thier money. Yes u will get better sound of course if u spend more, but to to get any real improvement I think you need to spent even 3x more than the original price piont.