Optimising Windows Audio Playback

[mattjax05]

PJPro- please can you guide me through the process of installing ASIO and the plug-in for Foobar2000 (how do I link it to Foobar2000), I have Windows XP. Also could you run me through the sound card potential issue too. Would any of these be affected if I use an external DAC?

Thanks, Matt

 

[Anonymous]

can you repost these links?

(ASIO, Kernel Streaming)

First ones goes to a non-English page and the other to a 404 . thanks

 

[PJPro]

The first is correct. The second now points to a Winamp Kernal Streaming plugin. I haven't tried the latter.

 

[PJPro]

mattjax05:
PJPro- please can you guide me through the process of installing ASIO and the plug-in for Foobar2000 (how do I link it to Foobar2000), I have Windows XP. Also could you run me through the sound card potential issue too. Would any of these be affected if I use an external DAC?

Thanks, Matt

Does your sound card support ASIO? If not, all bets are off.

 

[PJPro]

chebby: The DAC is plugged into USB so how would I NOT be getting a bit perfect stream especially as the internal soundcard is completely bypassed?

Well, you still have to go through the layers of OS software to access the soundcard card, whether it's intenal or external. This is where the KMixer gets it's hands on your audio stream.

chebby:
People have DACs that 'upsample' to as much as 24 bits and 192 khz, so how does an upsample to 48khz (assuming that is actually happening) harm the sound?

Do you know that Mickey Mouse wears a Bill Gates watch?

chebby:
I think I will 'borrow' the iMac from the other room when everyone is out and rip an identical lossless file to it's iTunes and swing the DAC's USB cable between both machines to compare.

I'd be interested in the result. I've read that iTunes is pants in windows for play back, so that should swing it for the iMac.

 

[Messiah]

PJPro:Slightly surprised at the low number of views this thread is getting. I can only conclude that

1) The number of users who use PCs as an audio source is not as high as I expected.
2) The majority of users who do use a computer as an audio source use an Apple computer.
3) Forum visitors are not interested in improving the quality of their computer based audio.
4) The thread got buried quickly and visitors are unaware of the computer based audio forum.
5) The title of the thread does not accurately convey the intent of the posting.

Which do you think it is?

PJ - I have found a lot of your threads very useful and interesting! Loving the new Headphone Amp one. As far as reading this thread goes, the title threw me. I thought it was a question being posed - How to Optimise Windows..... and as I did not know how to do it I did not bother reading it. Thought I would today and now glad I did.

So you may want to change the title to get more interest!

Keep up the good work though!!!!

 

[russ74]

If your sound card doesn't support asio then you need to install a 3rd party software called Asio4all. It's available here:Asio4allI've used the previous version in the past and it looks like they've changed the way it' set up so I'll have a mess with it in a minute. It used to have a separate start menu link but now looks like you access it through your media player.The asio plug-in, usually a downloaded dll file has to be placed in your media players plug-in folder for it to work. The Foobar plug-in is on this page:Foobar DownloadsThe winamp plug-in is here:Direct link to dll, click & save to your PCThen all you need to do is go into your media players options and select asio as the default output plugin.Essentially kernel streaming does the same thing but doesn't need any extra support, you just place the dll in the plugins folder (winamp, Monkey Media or the configurations folder in Foobar and select it as the default output plug-in.The foobar kernel streaming plug-in is on the same page as the asio link above & the winamp plug-in is here:Winamp kernel streaming pluginAs I mentioned in my previous post both the winamp plugins will fully work in MediaMonkey.When I've got my way around setting up the new asio4all software I'll post to tell you how to do it.Oh yeah, it is quite safe to have both asio and kernel streaming plug-in's installed at the same time as only one output plug-in can be selected for playback. Allows you to compare if you like, I found no difference in sound but both are better than the standard XP (Kmixer) set up.EnjoyEDITHad a play with the new version of asio4all (v2.9) and when set as the default output a little green square icon shows on the task bar, when you click this the asio4all window opens. The instructions that come with it are pretty good but if your just going to use asio for playback adjust the buffer bar fully to the right (2048 samples) and leave the advanced settings as they are. This is the same for Winamp, MediaMonkey & Foobar.

 

[mattjax05]

PJPro - I have managed to get the ASIO4ALL working with Foobar2000, any settings I need to change? Slightly confused with the computers sound card though. The computers sound output default device is Realtek High Definition Audio, this is also shown on the WDM Device List on the ASIO control panel (in 2x 8-96khz, 16bits - out 8x 8-192khz, 32bits) is this right?

 

[russ74]

It's not PJPro but to answer your question, if it's your only sound card then yes your good to go. Also if your not using asio for recording then whack up the buffer bar in asio4all to full (2048 samples) and leave the advanced settings as they are. Other than that your set to go.Enjoy

 

[chebby]

PJPro: Do you know that Mickey Mouse wears a Bill Gates watch?

OK thanks. Not quite sure why I deserved that response, but I get the message!

 

[mattjax05]

Many thanks Russ.

Just a few additional questions. If I leave things as they are (bar the buffer bar, what does this do?) what exactly is my soundcard doing, is it upsampling? How can I check?

I intend on buying an external dac, what would this eliminate in the computer? The soundcard?

 

[russ74]

Essentially asio was developed for people recording music to their PC and asio4all was developed for people with sound cards which don't support proper asio drivers. The issue with the standard windows sound set up (kmixer) is poor latency, essentially the time lag between playing a chord and hearing it from the PC. In asio4all the buffer bar controls the latency so the further to the left the less latency but the more chance of unstable sound playback (pops & crackles) but for just playback of mp3's etc latency is not an issue so moving the bar fully to the right removes any chance of errors.What asio and kernel streaming (KS) do is create a bridge over XP's sound device Kmixer which resamples all sound to 4800hz, asio and KS stop this so mp3's play at 44100hz etc.A DAC when connected to the PC will bypass the sound card (but not Kmixer) and play music at the actual sample rate. I only have a simple DIY DAC so readers with beresfords, fubars and CA Dacs will be able to answer about upsampling etc. I just select optical out in my sound card software and let it play through spdif.Once you get a dac you still need to keep the asio or KS plugins to prevent windows resampling before it reaches the DAC.Hope this slightly convoluted answer helps.

 

[mattjax05]

Thanks Russ, very well presented.

Do you know if my current sound card is doing anything with the sound - on the ASIO control panel in the WDM Device List the Realtek HIgh Definition Audio is showing: In - 2x 8-96khz, 16bits, Out - 8x 8-192khz, 32bits!

 

[russ74]

mattjax05:
Thanks Russ, very well presented.

Do you know if my current sound card is doing anything with the sound - on the ASIO control panel in the WDM Device List the Realtek HIgh Definition Audio is showing: In - 2x 8-96khz, 16bits, Out - 8x 8-192khz, 32bits!

I'm not 100% sure but I believe it's the support details for your sound card. The In represents recording so your sound card supports 2 channel (stereo) recording at bitrates of 8-98khz at 16bits and out (playback) supports 8 channels at bitrates of 8-192khz upto 32bits. Ripped CD's are 44.1khz 16bit but your sound card would play high definition music files without re sampling them. Such as the ones at this site:HiRes SoundHope this helps.

 

[mattjax05]

Thanks again Russ

And finally.... So hopefully, if I send a 44.1khz 16bit sound to my sound card it outputs the same signal (no sampling) but is there a way of checking?

 

[russ74]

mattjax05:Thanks again Russ

And finally.... So hopefully, if I send a 44.1khz 16bit sound to my sound card it outputs the same signal (no sampling) but is there a way of checking?
To be honest I'm not exactly sure, perhaps PJPro knows.
I haven't really looked into it as my sound card will play perfect bit rate in analogue but reprocesses everything to 48khz through the spdif output. It's a pain as I'm not able to fully appreciate any of HD files from the site I linked to in a previous post, they are all reprocessed to 48khz. Still standard 44.1khz sound a lot better through the dac than analogue.May be something worth checking though before you buy a DAC to see if your sound card resamples on digital out.EDIT: Just done a quick search for realtek HD and your fine.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, I have the kernel streaming ASIO working with media monkey (unlike the other ASIO I downloaded) and its going out of the soundcard into the Beresford, are there any setting I need to make in the kernel settings to optimise my sound or am I all systems go? Have been listening to a few 24bit 96K recordings and they sound very nice.

 

[russ74]

Brisk:Ok, I have the kernel streaming ASIO working with media monkey (unlike the other ASIO I downloaded) and its going out of the soundcard into the Beresford, are there any setting I need to make in the kernel settings to optimise my sound or am I all systems go? Have been listening to a few 24bit 96K recordings and they sound very nice.
I use the KS plugin & mediamonkey and all I've done is tick the gapless playback box and thats it. It's good to go as soon as you put it in the plugins folder.You may already know this but if you right click the player box at the bottom of mediamonkey and choose configure current output plugin & click on open status it tells you the data on the track playing.

 

[mattjax05]

Hi Russ

Once again thank you for your time. I have since compared the sound quality between my revitalised foobar2000 (using ASIO) and Windows Media player. Playing the same content (ripped from cd using EAC to a WAV file) I have found a very slight increase in sound quality in favour of the foobar2000, however compared to playing the actual cd through my hi-fi (CA 640c v2 cd player, CA 540a v2 amp and BR5s) you do notice a massive leap in sound quality - foobar2000 sounds very soft and restricted in comparison. I suppose this is all down to the sound card in my computer being the weak link, if I upgraded this to an external dac would I hear a much less restricted sound and almost identical to my cd player? I hope so! The CA Dacmagic seems very appealing.

 

[russ74]

Yep you should notice another increase in sound quality with the dac. I did when I added my cheap ebay diy dac so a CA Dacmagic should even more so. The D/A Converters in the CA will be much better than the one on your sound card. Reading a few of the other posts on it and the WHF review it gets a resounding thumbs up, looks quite smart in the pictures i've seen on the CA website as well.

 

[PJPro]

Good posts russ74! Looks like you've been busy.

 

[PJPro]

chebby:PJPro: Do you know that Mickey Mouse wears a Bill Gates watch?

OK thanks. Not quite sure why I deserved that response, but I get the message!
Sorry chebby. No offence meant. It was a joke.

I was trying to make the point that Windows upsampling is unlikely to match that of a DAC or other precision audio device. Clearly, that intent did not come across.

Incidently, this is not a slur on MS as such. After all, a OS needs to be able to do a multitude of tasks. It just needs a little tweaking to get the most out of it from an audio perspective.

 

[PJPro]

russ74:mattjax05:Thanks again Russ

And finally.... So hopefully, if I send a 44.1khz 16bit sound to my sound card it outputs the same signal (no sampling) but is there a way of checking?
To be honest I'm not exactly sure, perhaps PJPro knows.
I haven't really looked into it as my sound card will play perfect bit rate in analogue but reprocesses everything to 48khz through the spdif output. It's a pain as I'm not able to fully appreciate any of HD files from the site I linked to in a previous post, they are all reprocessed to 48khz. Still standard 44.1khz sound a lot better through the dac than analogue.May be something worth checking though before you buy a DAC to see if your sound card resamples on digital out.EDIT: Just done a quick search for realtek HD and your fine.
The DAC Magic shows the input sample rate on the front panel.

Click here to see the full size image.
Although, you would have bought the DAC by then!

 

[mattjax05]

Also a big thank you to you PJPro for making me aware of the sound improvements to be had.

I was under no impression that there are free sound upgrades, but then again im pretty new to the computer-based-music scene.

How many others are currently listening to a confined sounding tune without realising the potential?

Matt

 

[Anonymous]

I've just read this thread and there seems to be some misunderstanding (although a very common misunderstanding). KMixer does not re-sample all audio to 48Khz. It only resamples if it has to mix more than one audio stream. A single audio stream will be let through unaffacted. If it re-samples it will re-sample to the highest sample rate of the audio streams, and not automatically to 48Khz. If you only play only one audio stream and have a soundcard which can output at the sampling rate of the stream, then the audio will pass through the PC bit-perfect. This has been reported by Microsoft and has been tested and confirmed elsewhere. Kernal Streaming and ASIO will improve latency, but they will not affect audio quality. It can be easily confirmed by passing through DTS to a received, which, if the audio was resampled, would fail