Oppo 103 Blu-ray Player Gets 3 Stars!

[CnoEvil]

Wouldn't Ireland be easier?

Oi, that's Irishist.

 

[John Duncan]

Sounds like utter incompetence to me then. I would have thought it's basic stuff to contact a company and say we're featuring a great review of your product in the next mag, would you like to place an advert?

Except they don't know whether the review will be good or bad, because EDITORIAL don't actually tell ADVERTISING.

 

[BenLaw]

Pro-ject, KEF and Arcam are the ones that spring to mine.

EDIT - though 'consistent' is arguable, admittedly.

I'm not saying there aren't any, just that I think there's fewer examples than of 5 star products from companies with no advertising revenue. This supports my argument re a symbiotic relationship but in no way suggests reviews are based on advertising.

Anyway, Pro-ject turntable reviews: 8 5-star, 5 4-star so consistently high. (I know they do more than turntables, which don't do as well but if I search all reviews by brand it doesn't display the star rating, grrr)

Kef speakers: 4 5-star incl an award winner, 3 4-star, 2 3-star and 2 2-star, so a mixed bag, but recent excellent reviews.

Arcam: not many hifi reviews of late, but rdac and rcube did very well at least initially and my recollection / impression is the av amps got high reviews until after many months the problems couldn't be ignored.

 

[strapped for cash]

Conspiracy theories aside, isn't the solution the same as always: get an audition?

Anyone considering an upgrade that is remotely interested in sound and picture performance will extensively research their purchase, compile a shortlist, and get out there and demo the kit.

Anyone willing to look at multiple reviews would at the very least shortlist the Oppo. After that, they're on their own.

 

[BenLaw]

Sounds like utter incompetence to me then. I would have thought it's basic stuff to contact a company and say we're featuring a great review of your product in the next mag, would you like to place an advert?

Except they don't know whether the review will be good or bad, because EDITORIAL don't actually tell ADVERTISING.

Fair enough. If that's the case, what I say is overly simplistic, but only ever so slighlty. Surely it's easy to imagine the call to Henley Designs: 'so we've given a WHF award to Audio Technica, two to Roksan, given a five star review to Olive, several to Pro-Ject. Would you like to take out 6 months of insude front covers or failing that some column adverts near the buyer's guide? I'm sure you'll be sending in some new kit in that time and if you keep up your recent high standards then the ads and reviews will give some great exposure.'

Is this really so shocking? I don't see how it diminishes the integrity of the mag in any way.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Sounds like utter incompetence to me then. I would have thought it's basic stuff to contact a company and say we're featuring a great review of your product in the next mag, would you like to place an advert? If they don't do that they should be replaced.

To reiterate what John just said... Hardly, given that they – the advertising staff – don't know what products are being reviewed, let alone how well those products have fared, until they see the printed magazine.

 

[John Duncan]

Fair enough. If that's the case, what I say is overly simplistic, but only ever so slighlty.

Yes it is, as was my description of the relationship, but only ever so slightly.

Surely it's easy to imagine the call to Henley Designs: 'so we've given a WHF award to Audio Technica, two to Roksan, given a five star review to Olive, several to Pro-Ject. Would you like to take out 6 months of insude front covers or failing that some column adverts near the buyer's guide? I'm sure you'll be sending in some new kit in that time and if you keep up your recent high standards then the ads and reviews will give some great exposure.'

Is this really so shocking? I don't see how it diminishes the integrity of the mag in any way.

It is easy to imagine, and not shocking at all. But it's a completely different statement to the one that has been levelled in the past, which is that advertising implies good reviews which, as far as I could tell in the two years I was there, is nonsense.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Fair enough. If that's the case, what I say is overly simplistic, but only ever so slighlty. Surely it's easy to imagine the call to Henley Designs: 'so we've given a WHF award to Audio Technica, two to Roksan, given a five star review to Olive, several to Pro-Ject. Would you like to take out 6 months of insude front covers or failing that some column adverts near the buyer's guide? I'm sure you'll be sending in some new kit in that time and if you keep up your recent high standards then the ads and reviews will give some great exposure.'

Anyone on the advertising stuff indulging in such 'nudge nudge, wink wink' advertising sales techniques a) wouldn't be able to carry through on their promise, and b) wouldn't be around long enough to realise they couldn't.

 

[BenLaw]

It is easy to imagine, and not shocking at all. But it's a completely different statement to the one that has been levelled in the past, which is that advertising implies good reviews which, as far as I could tell in the two years I was there, is nonsense.

And the latter is a statement I've never in my time on the forum levelled at WHF, and have been at pains to make clear on this thread I've not been saying it.

I'm glad someone agrees my formulation is easy to imagine and not shocking, although Andrew still seems to have a hard time admitting this innocent possiblity. It's got to be how advertising works, how else would WHF maximise advertising revenue and consequently keep producing such a professional magazine that many people love and a free forum?

 

[BenLaw]

Fair enough. If that's the case, what I say is overly simplistic, but only ever so slighlty. Surely it's easy to imagine the call to Henley Designs: 'so we've given a WHF award to Audio Technica, two to Roksan, given a five star review to Olive, several to Pro-Ject. Would you like to take out 6 months of insude front covers or failing that some column adverts near the buyer's guide? I'm sure you'll be sending in some new kit in that time and if you keep up your recent high standards then the ads and reviews will give some great exposure.'

Anyone on the advertising stuff indulging in such 'nudge nudge, wink wink' advertising sales techniques a) wouldn't be able to carry through on their promise, and b) wouldn't be around long enough to realise they couldn't.

What promise? There's no promise and there's no nudge nudge. There's a statement that there's already been good reviews and a presumption that more products will be sent in for review over a period of time that the advertising would cover. There's no guarantee, implied or explicit, of good reviews, let alone that reviews woule be dependent on advertising.

 

[ellisdj]

Good point re the listening rooms though, I believe they're heavily damped which may explain WHFs apparent liking for bright speakers - like KEFs - though I doubt the different DACs employed would exhibit audible differences.

Indeed. It can be seen from the pics / videos that they are heavily damped. I'm aware of manufacturers complaining of this but also saying products have been voiced to be bright in order to get a five star WHF review, it's that important. This presumably explains Cyrus and kef's popularity, amongst others. I don't particular buy into the advertising conspiracy theory, although I'm confident there is more of a symbiotic relationship than WHF lets on about. I have no problem with that, I think it would do WHF a favour in the long run if they were open about this.

To both of you - the test rooms have near perfect balance and decay from treatment - that means they are right, rooms at home are wrong.

I heard Cyrus in one of the test rooms - just the 6S and it was very good indeed They are not bright at all - they create wonderful deep sound stage - get on the Big Quesiton if you dont believe me and ist not surprising get great review. I owned and sold a CD6S as I didnt like it a few years before. If it sounded like that in my room I would not have sold it. I dont want to degrade this thread into a debate over this - but for those comments I think you are off the mark.

The only criticism I have after meeting with some of WHF team related to reviews on blu ray players and HDMI cables etc is that they told me they dont calibrate the tvs - just setup, use / test them as best as possible by eye - as the average punter does - which is fair enough.

Now the main problem with that kind of relates to testing hifi. if you test hifi out of a treated room then the room has its effect and the test isnt 100% fair to all. Now a calibrated tv is more likely to show up differences than a non calibrated tv - something maybe to consider.

I know some new tvs come close to fully calibrated out of the box now - however I think my theory maybe holds some merit in this regard, especially if using projectors to test as I would guess they are very difficult to come calibrated out of the box.

I also really dont get the consensus that all BD players have identical picture - I have owned a Panasonic and 3 Pioneers and they have all been different to me otherwise I would never have changed. And its not just the image I feel is different - its the movement quality as well that changes

 

[BenLaw]

The only criticism I have after meeting with some of WHF team related to reviews on blu ray players and HDMI cables etc is that they told me they dont calibrate the tvs - just use / test them as best as possible by eye - as the average punter does - which is fair enough

I'm not sure that's right, I thought I'd read that several WHF reviewers are ISF qualified (and presumably therefore use those skills). If I was in the market for a new TV I would put a great deal of faith in WHF, I think they're pretty spot on.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

It got 3 stars because Oppo's a Chinese company that doesn't advertise in WHF, who are essentially saying by giving 3 stars, pay up like the rest of them or take the poor reviews on the chin.

Max?

Hi Ben. I'm right aren't I? What other reson is there?

You're definitely right about kef I don't know with oppo, WHF have always consistently marked them down compared to other reviews, but I've never used them myself. I don't really trust WHF on all things blu ray and hdmi as my views are the same as big boss's. I would trust the extremely comprehensive avforums reviews for blu ray players. As for motivation, I'm really not sure.

Edit: to give possible alternative reasons: on PQ WHF would be right to say hd performance is similar (identical) to cheaper players. Not that this is a reason to mark them down. For SQ I suspect the oppo may be pretty neutral, which doesn't suit WHF's listening room and reviewer tastes, so any screechier BDPs (Cambridge has a rep for being bright) may get marked better.

Have you actually bought a Blu-ray player based on an AVForum review then?

 

[Andrew Everard]

What promise? There's no promise and there's no nudge nudge. There's a statement that there's already been good reviews and a presumption that more products will be sent in for review over a period of time that the advertising would cover. There's no guarantee, implied or explicit, of good reviews, let alone that reviews woule be dependent on advertising.

I'm merely making the point that our advertising staff sell on the circulation and reach of the magazine (and increasingly the website) without getting involved in any aspect of what the manufacturer may or may not be sending in future for review, which is the responsibility of the editorial department. The two are both physically and ideologically separated, and those few advertising staff who have thought it possible to short-circuit that distanced relationship have lasted a very brief time indeed.

I know it sounds crazy: to take the seemingly obvious route would appear to make life simpler for all on the magazine. But it's a very short-term, and suicidal, strategy.

 

[BenLaw]

It got 3 stars because Oppo's a Chinese company that doesn't advertise in WHF, who are essentially saying by giving 3 stars, pay up like the rest of them or take the poor reviews on the chin.

Max?

Hi Ben. I'm right aren't I? What other reson is there?

You're definitely right about kef I don't know with oppo, WHF have always consistently marked them down compared to other reviews, but I've never used them myself. I don't really trust WHF on all things blu ray and hdmi as my views are the same as big boss's. I would trust the extremely comprehensive avforums reviews for blu ray players. As for motivation, I'm really not sure.

Edit: to give possible alternative reasons: on PQ WHF would be right to say hd performance is similar (identical) to cheaper players. Not that this is a reason to mark them down. For SQ I suspect the oppo may be pretty neutral, which doesn't suit WHF's listening room and reviewer tastes, so any screechier BDPs (Cambridge has a rep for being bright) may get marked better.

Have you actually bought a Blu-ray player based on an AVForum review then?

Not really. I own a Sony bdp-s370 (I think) and bdp-s185. Both were bought on price and functionality, ie both very cheap, both with iplayer and YouTube and the s185 is tiny. I will have checked a bunch of reviews to check there weren't any major problems, which includes WHF and any avforums review (can't remember if they reviewed them) but I wouldn't say any review was the basis for my purchase. If I upgraded I would have oppo at the forefront of my mind.

 

[Anonymous]

The only criticism I have after meeting with some of WHF team related to reviews on blu ray players and HDMI cables etc is that they told me they dont calibrate the tvs - just use / test them as best as possible by eye - as the average punter does - which is fair enough

I'm not sure that's right, I thought I'd read that several WHF reviewers are ISF qualified (and presumably therefore use those skills). If I was in the market for a new TV I would put a great deal of faith in WHF, I think they're pretty spot on.

no. None of what hifi reviewers are ISF qualified.

 

[chebby]

The only criticism I have after meeting with some of WHF team related to reviews on blu ray players and HDMI cables etc is that they told me they dont calibrate the tvs - just use / test them as best as possible by eye - as the average punter does - which is fair enough

I'm not sure that's right, I thought I'd read that several WHF reviewers are ISF qualified (and presumably therefore use those skills). If I was in the market for a new TV I would put a great deal of faith in WHF, I think they're pretty spot on.

no. None of what hifi reviewers are ISF qualified.

Are you sure about that?

In a thread last year the (then) Group Editor stated the opposite in this thread ...

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/tvs-and-projectors/how-do-whsav-calibrate-tvs-for-testing

 

[BenLaw]

The only criticism I have after meeting with some of WHF team related to reviews on blu ray players and HDMI cables etc is that they told me they dont calibrate the tvs - just use / test them as best as possible by eye - as the average punter does - which is fair enough

I'm not sure that's right, I thought I'd read that several WHF reviewers are ISF qualified (and presumably therefore use those skills). If I was in the market for a new TV I would put a great deal of faith in WHF, I think they're pretty spot on.

no. None of what hifi reviewers are ISF qualified.

Are you sure about that?

In a thread last year the (then) Group Editor stated the opposite in this thread ...

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/tvs-and-projectors/how-do-whsav-calibrate-tvs-for-testing

Yes, that's the thread I was thinking of.

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/976931-home-cinema-choice.html

 

[CnoEvil]

The only criticism I have after meeting with some of WHF team related to reviews on blu ray players and HDMI cables etc is that they told me they dont calibrate the tvs - just use / test them as best as possible by eye - as the average punter does - which is fair enough

I'm not sure that's right, I thought I'd read that several WHF reviewers are ISF qualified (and presumably therefore use those skills). If I was in the market for a new TV I would put a great deal of faith in WHF, I think they're pretty spot on.

no. None of what hifi reviewers are ISF qualified.

Are you sure about that?

In a thread last year the (then) Group Editor stated the opposite in this thread ...

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/tvs-and-projectors/how-do-whsav-calibrate-tvs-for-testing

Yes, that's the thread I was thinking of.

It looks like the difference between being trained and being qualified.

 

[BenLaw]

Well that's nearly four years old now! Plus as I understand it there are different levels of isf training.

 

[bigboss]

Let what hifi confirm what's the truth. Are they trained or fully qualified?

 

[bigboss]

....although I'm not sure how that's relevant. If What HiFi doesn't calibrate TVs to test blu ray players, to reflect real world scenario of 99% of buying public, then what's the point?

 

[duaplex]

Or tell us which high quality HDMI cable was used and was it the same for all tests :rofl:

 

[Anonymous]

Well i will delete the issues of what hfii have on my ipad, and stop reading the magazine. I can simply no loger trust any review i what hifi. I worked with movie and tv for some years now, worked at filmfestivals scriptwriting setting up large cinemas at large music festivals. I have seen and worked with all kind of equipment, nothing comes close to my new oppo. I can no longer trust the content of the magazine and bid yo al kind farwell.