Oppo 103 Blu-ray Player Gets 3 Stars!

[BenLaw]

More instructions from HDD forum Max? Do you even realise how much of their lapdog you are?

Good try, but no. Max started the thread there and was told not to bother...

 

[BenLaw]

Good point re the listening rooms though, I believe they're heavily damped which may explain WHFs apparent liking for bright speakers - like KEFs - though I doubt the different DACs employed would exhibit audible differences.

Indeed. It can be seen from the pics / videos that they are heavily damped. I'm aware of manufacturers complaining of this but also saying products have been voiced to be bright in order to get a five star WHF review, it's that important. This presumably explains Cyrus and kef's popularity, amongst others. I don't particular buy into the advertising conspiracy theory, although I'm confident there is more of a symbiotic relationship than WHF lets on about. I have no problem with that, I think it would do WHF a favour in the long run if they were open about this.

Yup, makes sense to me, though I suppose there's no way they can say so, in their position. It's not really a problem for the punters that can read between the lines I guess, but for those that can't and the manufacturers who don't enjoy such a relationship....

Hmm, what I said could easily be misinterpreted, so as I'm now on a computer allow me to expand. Andrew and others have repeatedly said the fact that company A spends a lot on advertising or that company B spends nothing has no influence on the (separate) review team and what score they'll give a product. There are certainly plenty of examples of companies who don't advertise at all but who's products get good scores (ATC definitely, Rega I think, others I'm sure),

My mum used to work selling advertising for a couple of leading trade magazines (in furniture and bathrooms, exciting stuff). Like WHF, these magazines had a mix of reviews and adverts, as well as individual 'seps' and advertorials. There, too, reviews were not improved on the basis of advertising spend. However, if there was a favourable review for a particular company in an upcoming edition, as a matter of course that company would be contacted to see if they would like to advertise. It would be in their interests as it was more powerful for an ad to be accompanied by a strong review in the same edition or adjacent to the ad or following an inside cover ad (like Cyrus did for ages, and may still be doing).

So, if an ad appears in the same edition as a favourable review, it is possible to mistake cause and effect.

Expanding on that, the better the contact between the mag and the company the better the relationship. These two things are what I mean by a symbiotic relationship. The companies need the mag, as favourable reviews and good exposure push sales. The mag needs the companies not only for advertising revenue but also because without products to review there is no mag. So I can easily imagine a situation where a particular company, eg Cyrus, has built up a good relationship with the mag over time both with the ad department and the review department, where they take regular ads for good exposure, and they happily supply products (not only temporarily for review but permanently for WHF's ongoing comparisons) safe in the knowledge not that their advertising guarantees a good review but that they are on a run of favourable reviews because they happen to match WHF tastes and that is likely to continue.

As I said, I don't see a problem with this as I don't have a problem with the concept of the companies needing the mag and the mag needing the companies. If there is any truth in this, I feel WHF would be better being open about it as it isn't sinister, and simply saying 'advertising has no effect on reviews' makes people distrusting and makes them come up with conspiracy theories.

Rather OT but there we go...

 

[jjbomber]

[/quote]

I. I don't particular buy into the advertising conspiracy theory, although I'm confident there is more of a symbiotic relationship than WHF lets on about. I have no problem with that, I think it would do WHF a favour in the long run if they were open about this.

[/quote]

But it works both ways. Do you seriously think Oppo are going to take out a huge advert to publicise their 3 star product? Of course not. Neither will any other manufacturer. The only ones who will advertise are those who have good reviews to publicise. So naturally the magazine is full of adverts for 5 star products. It's that simple.

I think that a Friday Afternoon Oppo has sneaked through the system and made it's way to the WHF listening room. My guess is that if they auditioned another one, they would get better results. Just my thought, that's all.

 

[John Duncan]

He needn't bother here any more either.

 

[The_Lhc]

I think that a Friday Afternoon Oppo has sneaked through the system and made it's way to the WHF listening room. My guess is that if they auditioned another one, they would get better results.

It wouldn't be the first time, I can remember a couple of occasions when pre-production items have found their way into the testing rooms. Later the manufacturer has sent a full production model and received an improved review.

 

[The_Lhc]

He needn't bother here any more either.

You mean you've finally banned the whole of Ireland?

 

[John Duncan]

No, only him, as I will continue to do.

 

[richardw42]

I'm not in the market, so don't have a very strong view.

But, I was pretty surprised with the review. It would be a real shame that oppo suffer from a poor score when other £500 players that are similar do better. It would be at top of my list if I was buying.

With WHF emblazoned across so many retailers adverts, this kind of review might have a real effect on sales.

 

[The_Lhc]

Wouldn't Ireland be easier?

 

[The_Lhc]

It would be a real shame that oppo suffer from a poor score when other £500 players that are similar do better.

Err, so you're saying all players of the same price should be given identical reviews so as not to harm anybodies sales? What would be the point of reviewing anything in that case?

 

[BenLaw]

I. I don't particular buy into the advertising conspiracy theory, although I'm confident there is more of a symbiotic relationship than WHF lets on about. I have no problem with that, I think it would do WHF a favour in the long run if they were open about this.

But it works both ways. Do you seriously think Oppo are going to take out a huge advert to publicise their 3 star product? Of course not. Neither will any other manufacturer. The only ones who will advertise are those who have good reviews to publicise. So naturally the magazine is full of adverts for 5 star products. It's that simple.

Yes, I agree with this.

 

[John Duncan]

I. I don't particular buy into the advertising conspiracy theory, although I'm confident there is more of a symbiotic relationship than WHF lets on about. I have no problem with that, I think it would do WHF a favour in the long run if they were open about this.

[/quote]

But it works both ways. Do you seriously think Oppo are going to take out a huge advert to publicise their 3 star product? Of course not. Neither will any other manufacturer. The only ones who will advertise are those who have good reviews to publicise. So naturally the magazine is full of adverts for 5 star products. It's that simple.

I think that a Friday Afternoon Oppo has sneaked through the system and made it's way to the WHF listening room. My guess is that if they auditioned another one, they would get better results. Just my thought, that's all.

[/quote]

You know those annoying KEF adverts in front of the videos? That deal happened after the 3 star review of some RXXX model...

 

[richardw42]

It would be a real shame that oppo suffer from a poor score when other £500 players that are similar do better.

Err, so you're saying all players of the same price should be given identical reviews so as not to harm anybodies sales? What would be the point of reviewing anything in that case?

no.

My reasoning was a bit simplistic.

What I meant to say was, if you take say 3 BDs at around the £500 mark which are more or less the same performance wise it would seem unfair to mark one particular player down for whatever reason.

Given WHF nfluence they need to be responsible with their reviews.

All conjecture though as I'm unlikely to view it. The review might be spot on !

 

[laserman16]

I think that a Friday Afternoon Oppo has sneaked through the system and made it's way to the WHF listening room. My guess is that if they auditioned another one, they would get better results.

It wouldn't be the first time, I can remember a couple of occasions when pre-production items have found their way into the testing rooms. Later the manufacturer has sent a full production model and received an improved review.

The Panasonic GT50 got rave reviews when it was reviewed and no doubt What hifi were reporting what they had seen, yet now we have quite a few owners reporting problems of various types with their GT50s.

So therefore not all sets will perform consistently with each other in a certain model. and this must apply to most things I would think.

 

[Andrew Everard]

It got 3 stars because Oppo's a Chinese company that doesn't advertise in WHF, who are essentially saying by giving 3 stars, pay up like the rest of them or take the poor reviews on the chin.

Evidence, please, since you now seem to be suggesting both corruption and racism?

Looked at logically, if a manufacturer is getting poor reviews it makes more sense for it to advertise to ensure its products are before the readers, whereas a company getting non-stop five star reviews doesn't really need to advertise, as the editorial is doing all the work for it. Unless it's very stupid...

But anyway, we're still dining out on the fortune of advertising spend behind the five star review of the AVI ADM9.1 speakers...

 

[Andrew Everard]

simply saying 'advertising has no effect on reviews' makes people distrusting and makes them come up with conspiracy theories.

Although it is actually the truth, and to my knowledge has been the case for at least the past 25 years.

 

[chebby]

But anyway, we're still dining out on the fortune of advertising spend behind the five star review of the AVI ADM9.1 speakers...

And what about all those 5 star, award winning Rega products? Rega have never advertised in any magazines.

 

[BenLaw]

Looked at logically, if a manufacturer is getting poor reviews it makes more sense for it to advertise to ensure its products are before the readers, whereas a company getting non-stop five star reviews doesn't really need to advertise, as the editorial is doing all the work for it. Unless it's very stupid...

I don't follow that logic. Not saying it doesn't happen in some cases, but I'd say it's the exception. Surely there's force in what I suggested of strong advertising complementing strong reviews? Examples that spring to mind being Cyrus, Naim, Spendor, QED, Chord. As you'll have seen, I'm not suggesting there's anything sinister in that, but I do think attempts to deny the obvious are more damaging than not.

 

[bigboss]

My understanding regarding blu ray players is plain & simple. If looking for blu ray picture quality, a budget blu ray player is as good as a high end one. Then I won't bother spending on an expensive player. If I'm looking for DVD upscaling, Oppo is the best, followed by Denon & Marantz. If I'm looking for a universal player or a player with twin HDMI outs without considering DVD upscaling, I'll look for cheaper options like Pioneer / Sony / Panasonic (depending on the feature I want). If I'm after superior audio via analogue, I'll look at Oppo 105 / CA 751 / Denon 2012 / Marantz equivalent.

It states the Pioneer DVD upscaling is just as good as the Oppo though. And it states the Oppo is no better at DVD upscaling than budget Blu-ray players.

Not to my eyes.

In the review or your experience with the Oppo?

My experience of demoing the Oppo.

 

[BenLaw]

But anyway, we're still dining out on the fortune of advertising spend behind the five star review of the AVI ADM9.1 speakers...

And what about all those 5 star, award winning Rega products? Rega have never advertised in any magazines.

Yes, as you'll have seen I already mentioned Rega and ATC and said that I'm sure there's many others.

On the flipside, what companies are there that get consistently poor reviews (mainly 3 stars, 4 at best say) but advertise heavily?

 

[Andrew Everard]

I don't follow that logic..

I'm not saying it's logical: I'm sure there are still manufacturers and distributors as well as cynics and lapdogs who believe there's a link between advertising and editorial. There isn't.

I'm not suggesting there's anything sinister in that, but I do think attempts to deny the obvious are more damaging than not.

No, you're not suggesting anything in the first half of the sentence that you're not insinuating in the second.

 

[John Duncan]

Looked at logically, if a manufacturer is getting poor reviews it makes more sense for it to advertise to ensure its products are before the readers, whereas a company getting non-stop five star reviews doesn't really need to advertise, as the editorial is doing all the work for it. Unless it's very stupid...

I don't follow that logic. Not saying it doesn't happen in some cases, but I'd say it's the exception. Surely there's force in what I suggested of strong advertising complementing strong reviews? Examples that spring to mind being Cyrus, Naim, Spendor, QED, Chord. As you'll have seen, I'm not suggesting there's anything sinister in that, but I do think attempts to deny the obvious are more damaging than not.

(sigh)

I've seen the relationship between advertising and editorial at WHF. It basically consists of:

EDITORIAL: OK so this is what's in the magazine this month, in case you want to target your sales pitch

ADVERTISING: What's HDMI?

I generalise, but not too much.

 

[John Duncan]

Pro-ject, KEF and Arcam are the ones that spring to mine.

EDIT - though 'consistent' is arguable, admittedly.

 

[BenLaw]

I don't follow that logic..

I'm not saying it's logical: I'm sure there are still manufacturers and distributors as well as cynics and lapdogs who believe there's a link between advertising and editorial. There isn't.

I'm not suggesting there's anything sinister in that, but I do think attempts to deny the obvious are more damaging than not.

No, you're not suggesting anything in the first half of the sentence that you're not insinuating in the second.

Perhaps you didn't read my earlier post then. I've not insinuated anything. I set out exactly what I thought and why in my earlier post. I also set out exactly why I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. You may also see that it was in response to a conspiracy theory.

I don't know why you pretend to misunderstand what I was referring to when I referred to your argument not being logical. Perhaps you can come up with a few examples of companies that advertise heavily despite erring consistent three star reviews; none springs to mind. Maybe Sharp for a while.

 

[BenLaw]

Looked at logically, if a manufacturer is getting poor reviews it makes more sense for it to advertise to ensure its products are before the readers, whereas a company getting non-stop five star reviews doesn't really need to advertise, as the editorial is doing all the work for it. Unless it's very stupid...

I don't follow that logic. Not saying it doesn't happen in some cases, but I'd say it's the exception. Surely there's force in what I suggested of strong advertising complementing strong reviews? Examples that spring to mind being Cyrus, Naim, Spendor, QED, Chord. As you'll have seen, I'm not suggesting there's anything sinister in that, but I do think attempts to deny the obvious are more damaging than not.

(sigh)

I've seen the relationship between advertising and editorial at WHF. It basically consists of:

EDITORIAL: OK so this is what's in the magazine this month, in case you want to target your sales pitch

ADVERTISING: What's HDMI?

I generalise, but not too much.

Sounds like utter incompetence to me then. I would have thought it's basic stuff to contact a company and say we're featuring a great review of your product in the next mag, would you like to place an advert? If they don't do that they should be replaced. From a conversation I had with a chap from Henleys I'm confident the ad department isn't that incompetent.