Oooo, the trouble with treble. . . .

[plastic penguin]

A question for the more technically minded people:

Does more treble = more detail? I'm personally undecided because the amps I've heard have, in the main, been at different price points, so I've never really had the opportunity to compare anything with my A65+ (around the £400 mark).

 

[Messiah]

Sorry if I'm being thick but how do you get more treble??

 

[plastic penguin]

Does your Cyrus have more or less treble than a Roksan for instance?

To me different brands have different levels of treble.

 

[jaxwired]

Messiah:Sorry if I'm being thick but how do you get more treble??
I think he just means high frequency emphasis. Or maybe what people call "brightness".

 

[plastic penguin]

jaxwired:Messiah:Sorry if I'm being thick but how do you get more treble??
I think he just means high frequency emphasis. Or maybe what people call "brightness".

No, not brightness, but is the upper frequency detail or insight determined by how strong the treble is?

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting one this. I think that treble emphasis can seem like more apparent detail, a trick used by some manufacturers to make their kit sound better than it is.

I guess what you're referring to would be the overall tonal balance, treble in relation to lower frequency ranges. Louder treble might give a colder or brighter sound whilst louder bass warmer, neutral being the middle. On that basis, some kit definitely has louder treble, Cyrus being one that springs to my mind. This will also be the case for speakers, with matching being the secret to getting good balance.

So, does more treble = more detail. I don't think so. Louder treble would give the impression of more detail at the cost of tonal balance. Treble detail will ultimately depend on the information retrieval ability of the source, the ability of the rest of the system to pass it on.

 

[chebby]

plastic penguin:Does more treble = more detail? I'm personally undecided because the amps I've heard have, in the main, been at different price points

Any competently designed modern amplifier should be pretty much flat across the entire frequency range to well beyond human hearing and then some.

Treble character variation is probably more to do with the speakers, their crossover design, and the environment they are used in.

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:

Any competently designed modern amplifier should be pretty much flat across the entire frequency range to well beyond human hearing and then some.

Treble character variation is probably more to do with the speakers, their crossover design, and the environment they are used in.

I agree but some amps playing into the same speaker do sound brighter why

 

[chebby]

cooky:I agree but some amps playing into the same speaker do sound brighter why

I don't know.

Without the means to measure all of them and do blind comparisons I can only assume that if any amp - significantly more expensive than budget level and therefore not needing budget compromises in component quality - deviates from a flat response then it must be intentional (to invest it with a certain 'character' to match their customer's expectation of a brand's 'house sound').

Good amplifier design is no longer a secret after - what is it now - 80 years of research?

Bring back an updated and more stringent set of rules for hifi like the old DIN 45500 standards (only better) and I really wonder how many would actually pass today?

 

[plastic penguin]

igglebert:Interesting one this. I think that treble emphasis can seem like more apparent detail, a trick used by some manufacturers to make their kit sound better than it is. I guess what you're referring to would be the overall tonal balance, treble in relation to lower frequency ranges. Louder treble might give a colder or brighter sound whilst louder bass warmer, neutral being the middle. On that basis, some kit definitely has louder treble, Cyrus being one that springs to my mind. This will also be the case for speakers, with matching being the secret to getting good balance. So, does more treble = more detail. I don't think so. Louder treble would give the impression of more detail at the cost of tonal balance. Treble detail will ultimately depend on the information retrieval ability of the source, the ability of the rest of the system to pass it on.

Thanks iggle - I thought I was going radio rental. That sounds logical to me that stronger treble doesn't necessarily mean more detail. Phew!

 

[Anonymous]

Are amps measured into a resistor and could that be the reason

 

[plastic penguin]

cooky:Are amps measured into a resistor and could that be the reason

Very likely. If think Chebby also hit the nail on the head when he referred to flat frequency across the range.

This is why I believe that maybe, just maybe, I could be wrong, why some people end up a little disappointed with their kit. It's so easy to overlook certain aspects of the amps sonic character, me included.

When I go and listen to any component I'm usually a pain in the you-know-what to the retailers. I won't decide and part with my money unless I am 120% sure - even then I'll go back for another listen. Maybe I'm over pedantic. . . .Maybe I'm a lot of things? But that's a different subject