one box to rule them all ? ( naimed uniti) !

[admin_exported]

Anybody out there offering first hand experience of the Naim Uniti as a comparison against Nait 5i + CD 5i 2

Is the sum of all the parts worth a trade up. Accepting the benefits of convenience and space , do you end up with far superior sound than the 5i separates.

Is the technological uplift and the computer based integration really a smoke and mirrors job?

Thanks

system one Denon 2309, Pana bd35, B and W 685 theatre, qed silver, tacima 2393, sky hd, denon idock 3w

Sytem two Nait 5i + CD i 2, pmc db 1's , chord, rega ear

 

[Andrew Everard]

Going down to Salisbury to pick one up next Thursday. Will attempt to give some early impressions of it as soon after as I can manage.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks . Looking forward to reading you on this.

In the meantime - give us a composite view on an amp trade up to the Nait xs from the Nait 5i

Cheers

 

[Andrew Everard]

A composite view? Surely the XS is an audio component?

I'd say that the XS is a superior amp to the 5i (italicised or not) - it's nearer to a mini-SuperNait, and if I were in the market for an amp I'd pay the extra over the 5i for the XS.

However, whether it's worth trading up is something I'd urge you to assess after an extensive demonstration at a Naim dealer.

 

[Anonymous]

You got my perhaps vague question - eventually , thanks .

I meant by " composite" - an overall perspective - taking into account sonic improvements, flexibility , value. This you gave me.

Absolutley need to demo - but the hardest thing is to create exactly similar listening conditions.

Dealers have the ideal world , we listen in the real world where extraneous sounds intrude and speakers may be different. Although I've noticed that Naim dealers will demo " at home " . But it would still be a challenge to set up two kits for comparison with the relevant components in the same room.

I guess you are on duty this Saturday am- good job too !

 

[Andrew Everard]

Sorry, couldn't resist the feeble composite/component joke.

Not exactly 'on duty', but here for a while...

 

[Anonymous]

Let's " name " the problem here ! ( That's even more feeble than your "composite" offering)

Naimers can become audio addicts in search of the next sonic high, tantalised by an upgrade path which offers nirvana.

We are reluctant to say " stop " and recognise when the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

Unless of course you are prepared to sell everything and go way up to the very high end of the market.

 

[drummerman]

This almost reads like you want a discussion about the perceived value of Naim rather than any specific advise on what would be suitable ...

I find Naim very expensive in purely objective terms. There's probably not much in a Supernait (or XS) or for that matter in most other components of the company that would justify the cost if you break it down and look at it purely this way ie. in material terms. You can buy a NAD for far less which probably has similar technology or some CA products which surely surpass it purely technically.

Problem is, that is not quite the entire story. Some of Naim's systems sound amazing and even taking the high prices into account I can't deny that listening to a particular one made it worth the cash in an instant. I have slight reservations about others though. Add good back-up and high residual values and it can suddenly make a bit more sense.

As to the uniti, I heard it in compromised surroundings at bristol and it was good. Helped no doubt though by the use of a sub/sat package which hugely elevated the price. It's not upgradeable so it is either a very neat life style solution which does'nt cost you anymore than the initial cost, speakers aside, or a one way street, meaning you have to sell if you ever feel the need to add to it, depending which way you look at it and what your aims are. In that respect it's no different to the entry Naim's but add's versatility so would be my choice. As for the XS, a very good amplifier and worth the extra over the 5i. With the matching CD5x it makes geat music and at present would be my Naim system of choice as well as the best combination I heard below £3000 for a separates system.

As always, my opinion only.

 

[chebby]

I am bound in my Naim 'upgrade path' by the size of the living-room (which is not going to change) and my preference for low-moderate volumes.

Oh and budget of course.

I cannot see me ever upgrading beyond something like the Nait XS/CD5X (and that is still quite a daunting ambition financially.)

I also do not envisage getting into all that FlatCap/HiCap staff. (Too many boxes and too much money.)

Of course if Naim have success with the NaimUniti and decide in the next couple of years to develop an XS/CD5X based version then I could be tempted

As it stands now, the new NaimUniti was £500 more than I paid for my 5i combo (and that was a bit of a 'reach' in itself) and I already have the DAC side of things covered.

I was toying with the idea of new speakers but I now think my Rega R3's have got another upgrade left in them yet so they are staying. (Also my wife has strong feelings about the R3's. She loves them!)

 

[Frank Harvey]

One thing to take into account is that Naim don't skimp on anything. All the little things that most manufacturers will cut corners to decrease costing will be done properly in the Naim factory. Naim will match components, capacitors, resistors etc, to achieve the best sound possible. Given these mass produced items can vary by about 10% (maybe more), you could be looking at a difference of up to 20% when comparing the same items in both of the channels of an amp, for example.

Companies like NAD won't go to the same lengths, with the majority of, or their entire range, mass produced.

When the WHF team collect the Uniti, maybe they can get a quick factory tour and relay to everyone on here the lengths they go to to ensure purity of signal for the user.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
One thing to take into account is that Naim don't skimp on anything. All the little things that most manufacturers will cut corners to decrease costing will be done properly in the Naim factory. Naim will match components, capacitors, resistors etc, to achieve the best sound possible. Given these mass produced items can vary by about 10% (maybe more), you could be looking at a difference of up to 20% when comparing the same items in both of the channels of an amp, for example.

ÿCompanies like NAD won't go to the same lengths, with the majority of, orÿtheir entire range, mass produced.

When the WHF team collect the Uniti, maybe they can get a quick factory tour and relay to everyone on here the lengths they go to to ensure purity of signal for the user.

And, for those jingoists amongst us, NAD (and CA, for that matter) are made in China or close by. Naim remain firmly anchored in this emerald isle.ÿ

The only down sideÿis their regard for the environment. You're not meant to switch their gear off, and they position the switch to make it very hard to do so. Oh, and the thump you hear when you turn them on can seem disturbing to the uninitiated.ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Tarquinh:FrankHarveyHiFi:
One thing to take into account is that Naim don't skimp on anything. All the little things that most manufacturers will cut corners to decrease costing will be done properly in the Naim factory. Naim will match components, capacitors, resistors etc, to achieve the best sound possible. Given these mass produced items can vary by about 10% (maybe more), you could be looking at a difference of up to 20% when comparing the same items in both of the channels of an amp, for example.

Companies like NAD won't go to the same lengths, with the majority of, or their entire range, mass produced.

When the WHF team collect the Uniti, maybe they can get a quick factory tour and relay to everyone on here the lengths they go to to ensure purity of signal for the user.

And, for those jingoists amongst us, NAD (and CA, for that matter) are made in China or close by. Naim remain firmly anchored in this emerald isle.

The only down side is their regard for the environment. You're not meant to switch their gear off, and they position the switch to make it very hard to do so. Oh, and the thump you hear when you turn them on can seem disturbing to the uninitiated.

TBH I think those two points dissuade me from buying Naim, leaving on all the time is completely ridiculous IMO. And this 'thump' sounds awful too...

 

[Anonymous]

Genuine questions drummerman !

Although you're right to pick up on the angst re Naim prices versus sound improvement pay offs. There is a definite and unqiue sound to the Naim even at the low end Nait 5 i. But no upgrade path , not even headphone socket.

Size of room can be an issue if you simply want raw power . But my interest is in the quality and kind of sound which you can generate even at low volume levels which makes the Nait xs on paper as well as budget 500 quid more.

My early view on Uniti ( without hearing it ! ) is that it's the triumph of convenience in the digital , wireless age over everything. It's essential components being the CD 5i -2 and Nait 5i -2. They've added a bit more r and t ( research and technology ) into the materials and circuits- but that's all. Whereas Nait xs is obviously their investment in the quality of the amp only.

 

[drummerman]

peebs:
Genuine questions drummerman !

Although you're right to pick up on the angst re Naim prices versus sound improvement pay offs. There is a definite and unqiue sound to the Naim even at the low end Nait 5 i. But no upgrade path , not even headphone socket.

Size of room can be an issue if you simply want raw power . But my interest is in the quality and kind of sound which you can generate even at low volume levels which makes the Nait xs on paper as well as budget 500 quid more.

My early view on Uniti ( without hearing it ! ) is that it's the triumph of convenience in the digital , wireless age over everything. It's essential components being the CD 5i -2 and Nait 5i -2. They've added a bit more r and t ( research and technology ) into the materials and circuits- but that's all. Whereas Nait xs is obviously their investment in the quality of the amp only.

Where's the questions? Sounds more like statements to me ...

The XS sounds more substantial than the 5i, even at lower volumes. In any case, only by listening to it will you know what suits you.

 

[Anonymous]

Note that the transport might be from the CD 5i, but the DAC comes from the CD 5x, which is the model above and much better.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Anything will sound better if left on all the time, not just Naim. As for the thump through the speakers, Naim has always done this and it's nothing to worry about. Naim just keep their amps simple, removing anything that's not needed - muting circuitry is not really needed. If people are worried about the impact on the environment by a single amplifier, I can only assume they live in houses without LCD or plasma TV's, hardly have the lights on, and toast their toast over a candle.

IF global warming is a serious threat, does anyone really think there's any way back? The manufacturing and farming industries are affecting the environment more than housing - so turn your CD player and amp on and just enjoy yourself

 

[Anonymous]

Ooh lookee - a naim dealer defending naim's inadequate design and lack of concern for the environment... waht a shock!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Just telling it like it is. I've never really heard any electronics that can match Naim in multiple areas. Take the Naim Nait - nothing under £1,000 has ever sounded better, even if you go right back to the original Nait.

And what I said was my own personal opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

LOL I sold my naim gear - it sounded awful! Now replaced with cheaper and better-sounding kit from Harman/Kardon and Sony...

 

[chebby]

FrankHarveyHiFi:I can only assume they live in houses without LCD or plasma TV's, hardly have the lights on, and toast their toast over a candle.

For the last few years we have used energy saving bulbs in every fitting. (15 I think, off the top of my head).

These used to range anywhere from 100w to 40w and during the autumn/winter months of short daylight hours, anything up to two-thirds of them may have been on at any one time.

Since using energy saving bulbs the power usage of our lights has dropped to between sixth to an eighth of what it was previously.

A new energy saving fridge freezer last year had quite an impact on the bills. (It is on something called 'eco' setting.)

We are a one car household (I work from home mostly saving us one daily commute as a family) and the car is a fairly frugal 1.6 litres that seems to average about 50mpg.

After various building upgrades last summer we found that it was not necessary to put the heating on until late November and then only occasionally until the cold snaps set in.

We watch very little TV so our 26" Samsung LCD (switched off when not used) is only on for about 1.5 hours a day on average and even then we find the picture has the best quality with the lowest backlight setting. (I am pretty sure it uses more than my hifi due to my dislike of loud volumes and use of efficient loudspeakers.)

We have also spent many years now taking our holidays in Britain (from choice rather than energy considerations) so we are not contributing to the burning of aviation fuel with our twice annual 'jaunts'.

We are also pretty keen-eyed when it comes to buying food and veg and prefer to buy locally sourced food wherever possible. (It tastes better - primarily - but also saves on shipping it from Kenya or Israel or wherever.)

Even our local supermarket of choice has a corporate policy of buying electricity from EDF renewable sources and only invests it's profits into it's own operation and staff.

I cannot by any stretch describe ourselves as some kind of eco-warriors because most of our energy savings arise from pure financial self-interest and our food buying done from taste/quality/financial related reasons first and ethical/ecological ones second. However I think we do ok compared to many. My energy bills which have remained stable over the last 2 years would seem to bear that out given that we have not changed providers. It is a shame that every time our units consumption goes down then the cost of the units goes up to match! But it could be worse.

So I may just leave the Naim kit switched on one day with nothing running other than the fridge (once I have measured the fridge usage) and see what it really uses. As a class B amp I am sure it cannot be that much. (Maybe someone already knows the figures?)

However it still bugs me (leaving uncessary items switched on overnight) from a safety perspective. So I may continue to leave it all off anyway.

 

[chebby]

Bin Clankem:LOL I sold my naim gear - it sounded awful! Now replaced with cheaper and better-sounding kit from Harman/Kardon and Sony...

Most Naim gear gets sold on due to upgrades/changes etc. and usually commands decent resale value. Even you said you sold it rather than toss it onto the local tip.

This is one difference. Naim equipment will get sold and change hands rather than get discarded. Therefore it does not cause a new item of electronics to be made every time it is sold whereas cheap stuff with no residual value is more likely to get tossed and replaced with another one.

That has got to save an awful lot of manufacturing energy in it's lifetime.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Bin Clankem:LOL I sold my naim gear - it sounded awful! Now replaced with cheaper and better-sounding kit from Harman/Kardon and Sony...I find it hard then to understand why you purchased the Naim in the first place. Those that get into the Naim thing tend to do it by demonstration/comparison. Naim isn't normally bought by people that suddenly wake up one day and think their system sounds rubbish. Unless they didn't purchase Naim in the first place.......

If Sony and HK are so much better than higher end products, then that spells the end of the specialist hi-fi industry as we know it. I'd best start looking into becoming a tree surgeon.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

Bin Clankem:LOL I sold my naim gear - it sounded awful! Now replaced with cheaper and better-sounding kit from Harman/Kardon and Sony...I find it hard then to understand why you purchased the Naim in the first place. Those that get into the Naim thing tend to do it by demonstration/comparison. Naim isn't normally bought by people that suddenly wake up one day and think their system sounds rubbish. Unless they didn't purchase Naim in the first place.......

If Sony and HK are so much better than higher end products, then that spells the end of the specialist hi-fi industry as we know it. I'd best start looking into becoming a tree surgeon.

I bought naim because I fancied trying some! It wasn't expensive, and I got back most of what I paid when I unloaded it 9 months later. It was replaced with a Linn Classik (also rubbish) then a Sugden Masterclass (great, but OTT for the second system) before buying the HK/Sony system.

 

[Frank Harvey]

It sounds like high end isn't your thing.......the Classik was good in it's day (a hint of high-end-in-a-box), and the Sugdens are gorgeous, pure music.

 

[Anonymous]

The Sugden was indeed gorgeous, but I couldn't justify keeping it in the second system. It made way for some 300B monoblocks in the main system. High end? Depends where you sit I suppose. I would't call entry-level or mid-range naim high-end, but there you go...