Old speakers, new tweeters are a bit too sharp

[pd44]

My old 1986 speakers, home made by HiFi Stereo, Sale, Manchester, are still doing pretty well. I replaced the 3.5" tweeters a couple of years ago, but they're sounding a bit sharp.

Has anyone any tips how to make them less sharp?

 

[nopiano]

Are you pulling our legs? Those don’t even look like tweeters, but mid-range drivers.

But if you’re serious, what was there previously, and how did you ensure they matched the crossover?

Fitting thick grille cloth will make them less ‘sharp’. Drape the duvet they’re lying on in your picture over the front as an experiment. Better?

 

[pd44]

Yes, I’m serious. I went to a local speaker place and this is what I got 🙁 I’ll look closer to see if it says the frequency range on the crossover. Plus I’ll try the quilt test - thanks 😊

So, if I understand correctly, there are 3.5” tweeters that would work better in these speakers?

 

[ToppingSMSL]

They're quite large for tweeters. Tweeters tend to be domes rather than cones. I suspect those will struggle with the very high frequencies.

 

[Al ears]

Is that a dual-concentric driver.????
If so what you changed wasn't a tweeter....

 

[nopiano]

Is that a dual-concentric driver.????
If so what you changed wasn't a tweeter....

I was wondering that too. Is that inner cone called a ‘whizzer’?

 

[Al ears]

I was wondering that too. Is that inner cone called a ‘whizzer’?

It maybe in some groups, to me it's the tweeter. That 3 1/2" driver isn't .

 

[pd44]

Is that a dual-concentric driver.????
If so what you changed wasn't a tweeter....

Yes (?), maybe - this is all new to me, as you've probably already worked out 🙂 i checked my other speakers in the house, none of them have a cone in the centre of the bass driver. So the high range is emitted from that cone in the middle of the bass driver?

 

[Al ears]

Yes (?), maybe - this is all new to me, as you've probably already worked out 🙂 i checked my other speakers in the house, none of them have a cone in the centre of the bass driver. So the high range is emitted from that cone in the middle of the bass driver?

Yes. The only way to change the tweeter is to replace that whole large driver.
The 3 1/2" affair serms to be a midrange driver.
No idea as to state of the crossover components if they are that old.
More money than it's worth I would suggest. Ditch them if unacceptable.

 

[pd44]

Yes. The only way to change the tweeter is to replace that whole large driver.
The 3 1/2" affair serms to be a midrange driver.
No idea as to state of the crossover components if they are that old.
More money than it's worth I would suggest. Ditch them if unacceptable.

Thanks. Here's piccies of the crossover & large driver. No info on the crossover, although they seem to be working ok.

Wonder if it would be worth switching all the drivers plu crossovers out for a more "conventional" set-up? I might try ... The speakers have a really nice bass sound, and good "separation" between the notes etc ...

 

[JDL]

Thanks. Here's piccies of the crossover & large driver. No info on the crossover, although they seem to be working ok.

Wonder if it would be worth switching all the drivers plu crossovers out for a more "conventional" set-up? I might try ... The speakers have a really nice bass sound, and good "separation" between the notes etc ...

I noticed your Vera screwdriver there. Nice.!

 

[nopiano]

Thanks. Here's piccies of the crossover & large driver. No info on the crossover, although they seem to be working ok.

Wonder if it would be worth switching all the drivers plu crossovers out for a more "conventional" set-up? I might try ... The speakers have a really nice bass sound, and good "separation" between the notes etc ...

The trouble is all the drivers, the crossover and the cabinet go together. They’re the ‘recipe’ if you like.

Swapping one or all items is really spinning the dice and likely to be awful. A specialist could work out options but the cost would far exceed any value they’d have. (We can make pancakes, but instead of eggs we will use oranges, and instead of flour we can try pepper. 😷)

 

[Al ears]

The trouble is all the drivers, the crossover and the cabinet go together. They’re the ‘recipe’ if you like.

Swapping one or all items is really spinning the dice and likely to be awful. A specialist could work out options but the cost would far exceed any value they’d have. (We can make pancakes, but instead of eggs we will use oranges, and instead of flour we can try pepper. 😷)

I concur.
Max. Power 20 watts?
What is the OP driving these with?
Sealed cross over looks very basic.
I think these drivers are for old PA speakers and low output valve amps.
Did these originally come out of a pub?
Attempting to change anything here could be potentially disastrous or, at the very least uneconomic.
Probably better off buying a new pair of speakers.
You could try to tame the tweeter by angling them outwards from your listening position but, if it were me I wouldn't be spending any time trying to revive these boxes.

 

[pd44]

The trouble is all the drivers, the crossover and the cabinet go together. They’re the ‘recipe’ if you like.

Swapping one or all items is really spinning the dice and likely to be awful. A specialist could work out options but the cost would far exceed any value they’d have. (We can make pancakes, but instead of eggs we will use oranges, and instead of flour we can try pepper. 😷)

Thanks for the helpful replies; I shall accept the speakers as they are 🙂

 

[Gray]

I replaced the 3.5" tweeters a couple of years ago, but they're sounding a bit sharp.

Has anyone any tips how to make them less sharp?

You could experiment with some low cost soft dome tweeters in their places (after adaption).
https://cpc.farnell.com/qtx/902-472uk/tweeter-hi-fi-40w-silk-dome/dp/LS06350
No doubt you can improve your sound.

 

[twinkletoes]

As al ears has said I bet there designed for low wattage amps.

Do you find they get loud very easily without much of a turn on the volume knob?

If they do Prehaps try to attenuate the signal from the source component such as the cd player. You may find it softens them a little.

I find my klipsch get a little uncomfortable if I feed the amp with a 2volt signal from a cd player or other digital device.

 

[Jasonovich]

Yes, I’m serious. I went to a local speaker place and this is what I got 🙁 I’ll look closer to see if it says the frequency range on the crossover. Plus I’ll try the quilt test - thanks 😊

So, if I understand correctly, there are 3.5” tweeters that would work better in these speakers?

Honestly, get some gasoline, pour generous amount and drop a lighted match.
Make sure you do it outside in a safe space 😀
I'm a DIY freak but my friend, it's pure junk, you're likely to cause long term damage to your amp
Get rid of it.
Get yourself Cambridge SX-50 or Wharfedale Diamond speakers, these are excellent budget speakers.

 

[pd44]

Honestly, get some gasoline, pour generous amount and drop a lighted match.
Make sure you do it outside in a safe space 😀
I'm a DIY freak but my friend, it's pure junk, you're likely to cause long term damage to your amp
Get rid of it.
Get yourself Cambridge SX-50 or Wharfedale Diamond speakers, these are excellent budget speakers.

How am I likely to damage my amp?

 

[Jasonovich]

How am I likely to damage my amp?

In terms of putting another tweeter that wasn't originally designed for the crossover can potentially cause short circuits, which can damage the output transistors of the amplifier.
It's probably unlikely but there's always a small risk.

 

[Gray]

So the high range is emitted from that cone in the middle of the bass driver?

I think not.
Follow the single wire soldered to the bottom right terminal of the crossover.
I'd bet the other end is going to the 3.5" driver - proving that's where the high frequencies are going.

If the Altai was a dual concentric, it wouldn't have only one pair of terminals (you can confirm they're connected to the other 2 crossover terminals - and are therefore only getting the low frequencies from it).

Altai were associated with some low cost, inferior products - but you like the bass that particular driver gives and that's what matters 👍

Correctly fitting soft dome tweeters should do no more harm to your amp than the 3.5" drivers currently fitted.....but you might find you miss some of the midrange that they could be providing.

I wouldn't spend too much trying to improve on that design.....have you heard any modern speakers?

 

[pd44]

In terms of putting another tweeter that wasn't originally designed for the crossover can potentially cause short circuits, which can damage the output transistors of the amplifier.
It's probably unlikely but there's always a small risk.

So you mean the wrong tweeter can, potentially, cause a short in the crossover?

 

[pd44]

I think not.
Follow the single wire soldered to the bottom right terminal of the crossover.
I'd bet the other end is going to the 3.5" driver - proving that's where the high frequencies are going.

If the Altai was a dual concentric, it wouldn't have only one pair of terminals (you can confirm they're connected to the other 2 crossover terminals - and are therefore only getting the low frequencies from it).

Altai were associated with some low cost, inferior products - but you like the bass that particular driver gives and that's what matters 👍

Correctly fitting soft dome tweeters should do no more harm to your amp than the 3.5" drivers currently fitted.....but you might find you miss some of the midrange that they could be providing.

I wouldn't spend too much trying to improve on that design.....have you heard any modern speakers?

Thank you, I may try. Yes, I’ve heard modern speakers ( my wharfedale lintons are very much better in every department). But the bass and (not sharp) trebles on my oldies are quite a bit clearer than on, say, a pair of modern “bookshelf” speakers, on actual bookshelves.

 

[Jasonovich]

So you mean the wrong tweeter can, potentially, cause a short in the crossover?

It's more likely the tweeter will blow if they encounter too much audio clipping or compression, and this is down to using tweeter not fully matched with the original crossover. This can cause crossover to short, which potentially may cause the amp output to short.

Having a component that isn't fully compatible with the crossover may adversely affect main speaker power capacity and speaker sensitivity. If there are irregularities with the peak power capacity because replacement tweeter has caused this imbalance, there is a chance the speaker can blow and it may also short out the amp output.

It is something I read on the forums ages ago don't hold me to it. If @Gray tells me, Jason, I'm talking tosh 🤣 🤣 I promise to shut up. I trust Gray's expertise in this field.

 

[Gray]

It's more likely the tweeter will blow if they encounter too much audio clipping or compression, and this is down to using tweeter not fully matched with the original crossover. This can cause crossover to short, which potentially may cause the amp output to short.

Having a component that isn't fully compatible with the crossover may adversely affect main speaker power capacity and speaker sensitivity. If there are irregularities with the peak power capacity because replacement tweeter has caused this imbalance, there is a chance the speaker can blow and in may also short out the amp output.

It is something I read on the forums ages ago don't hold me to it. If @Gray tells me, Jason, I'm talking tosh 🤣 🤣 I promise to shut up. I trust Gray's expertise in this field.

I may have worked for a couple of well known speaker / amp manufacturers, but they'd tell you I'm no expert Jason 😆

I wonder if any new tweeter would be less of an electrical or FR match than the 3.5" drivers he's already replaced himself.

More of a concern might be what that 'off the shelf' crossover could be doing to amp loading 🤔

I'm not one to speak as I've previously put Mission tweeters in Wharfedale speakers with no regard for FR considerations / precise crossover point....not the action of an expert.