Old hifi needs renewing..

[ticktocktoddy]

Hi, new here,
My old hifi is sounding tired and fluffy.
I have a Pro-ject turntable, a good Denon cd player, a Arcam alpha 8r, and epos M5 speakers.
On mediocre interconnects/cables.

Do I have to start from scratch? I think my speakers are ok, they just need a small subwoofer support.
Could I use my pre amp out and buy a power amp?
Are my speakers big enough for rock music?

Thanks.

 

[Gray]

Do I have to start from scratch?

Not necessarily.

Welcome

I'd start by listening to some amps and speaker combos if I were you - you'll find some anything but 'fluffy'.
You might well decide that a subwoofer isn't necessary - plenty of us manage without - and the neighbours probably still get enough bass.

The less said about cables the better - 'mediocre' is likely to be fine.
Room acoustics will have MUCH greater influence on your sound.

Say how much you've got to spend and you might get a few suggestions - but you'll be better off deciding for yourself by listening - preferably in your own room.

 

[ticktocktoddy]

Thank you. I know you cant get much for under £1000 on a new amp.
The same with speakers.
Vocals are still coming across nice and clear. But lower frequencies like drums/bass and a guitar solo looses separation as I turn up the volume. It just cant cope.

 

[Gray]

I know you cant get much for under £1000 on a new amp.
The same with speakers.

Well you're not without options for that money.
Maybe consider floorstanders.
Wharfedale12.3 are very well liked by reviewers and owners at £500 (a mate used Richer Sounds to match a £450 price he found).
Other brands, including Dali and Triangle could be worth a look.

When it comes to amps, something like the Mission 778X might tighten up your bass.
As far as using your Arcam as a preamp, you could consider a couple of Fosi V3 Monoblocks, each with a 5A power supply - they'd give some power to any new speakers.

I'm sure you could get more of the sound you're after for £2000 (or significantly less).

 

[Revolutions]

Gray is right, you can get a lot of speaker for £1k, especially if you look at discontinued or ex-demo models. Lots of options & lots of them are great speakers so likely you’ll find something that works for you.

I picked up some ex-display monitor audio silver 200 floorstanders for well under £1k, and they were pretty damn good speakers.

 

[12th Monkey]

A sub won't help with guitar solos. You need to consider your room size before changing speakers - how big is it? - but if things are deteriorating in several areas when you turn up the volume, that sounds more like an amp issue - struggling to maintain control.

Unhelpful though it might seem, demoing is the next step. If you have a friendly dealer (or better still a local Richer Sounds) you could maybe take your speakers in and see how they sound with other kit.

 

[Stuart83]

A sub won't help with guitar solos. You need to consider your room size before changing speakers - how big is it? - but if things are deteriorating in several areas when you turn up the volume, that sounds more like an amp issue - struggling to maintain control.

Unhelpful though it might seem, demoing is the next step. If you have a friendly dealer (or better still a local Richer Sounds) you could maybe take your speakers in and see how they sound with other kit.

Agreed.
I sometimes put in a suggestion as I will with the QA 3050i for a budget floorstander as it's what I liked after many a demo

Very good bass and big soundstage etc etc, they for once reflected on the reviews and various awards won.

Home review

Q Acoustics reaffirms its position of pre-eminence in the midrange floorstander market.

www.whathifi.com

A speaker failure in my second hifi caused me to upgrade from them and move them over from my main hifi as the replacements already knowing how good they are.
It cost substantially more to better them with their replacements, they punch way above their weight.

I demoed the new Arcam radia series and a few others whilst looking for new speakers and found them very good as predictably with the little mission 778x but there in lays the problem that's to my ears.

I've always liked Arcams "house sound" and liked mission's sound in amps and earlier speakers since my childhood, but inline with "12 th monkey" it's about what you like.

I've bought blind on reviews alone a few times usually when it's one of those one off bargains to be had to find both I like whatever or on occasion had the slog of sending it back etc.

With richer sounds and the like the former offering at home demos with kit on a lone there's not a reason why you can't get exactly what you want via (and perhaps enjoy) the demo process.

This ensures you've spent on what you personally like.

Suffice to say a point in the right direction and the compiling a shortlist hastens things up.

 

[ticktocktoddy]

In home audio, why aren't valve amps more normally used? As compared to guitarists (like me) where valve amps are essential. Why has it become rare and specialised?

 

[12th Monkey]

In home audio, why aren't valve amps more normally used? As compared to guitarists (like me) where valve amps are essential. Why has it become rare and specialised?

I would suspect that cost is a factor, plus the likelihood of needing to replace valves at some stage.

 

[jjbomber]

In home audio, why aren't valve amps more normally used? As compared to guitarists (like me) where valve amps are essential. Why has it become rare and specialised?

People prefer cheap and convenient! Some prefer things that look pretty rather than sound great. Some have young kids and worry they will get damaged rather easily. Many reasons really. However, there are a few of us on here that use valve amps.

 

[twinkletoes]

In home audio, why aren't valve amps more normally used? As compared to guitarists (like me) where valve amps are essential. Why has it become rare and specialised?

Hardly anything is designed to work with what can be relatively low power these days. People like loads of bass and small boxes so the compromise to that is inefficient speakers with difficult load ratings which means large amps with gobs of power for no gain in volume just extra expense on the wallet, personally I don't get it. But thats just me

25 years ago everything was big, large drivers, large boxes, mission 701's for example. 90db and above, only needed 20 watts to get them singing. And they could sit close to wall as to not impede on the living area. and you got big bass and fat mids.

Some very popular budget speakers are insanely difficult to drive and hardly any "budget" amps have the power and current to do them justice. Its why they upgrade so quickly

I went with very large efficient speakers and low wattage class A amp and id never go back to tiny speakers again. Again just me and my opinion

 

[twinkletoes]

Thank you. I know you cant get much for under £1000 on a new amp.
The same with speakers.
Vocals are still coming across nice and clear. But lower frequencies like drums/bass and a guitar solo looses separation as I turn up the volume. It just cant cope.

Thats the problem/compromise with smaller speakers as you turn up the wick they start to compress, I haven't come across any compact designs that don't do this. Even compact modern floorstander do It to some extent.

Compact Sealed enclosures dont suffer as much from this, ATC for example but they require lots of power to really make them sing

 

[ticktocktoddy]

Hi guys,
From just listening online it seems the Yamaha A-S701 looks the way forward.
Now I live in a small stone cottage, the livingroom is not large and has lots of heavy fabrics.
I have a big stone mantlepiece that is ideal for mounting speakers.
I liked the look of the Wharfdale Evo 4.2 as I can take that size. But I was hoping for solid wood and not veneer. (My epos M5i speakers are cherrywood).
I think I will buy this amp and new cables and see how the sound improves.

 

[Gray]

Hi guys,
From just listening online it seems the Yamaha A-S701 looks the way forward.
I think I will buy this amp and new cables and see how the sound improves.

It looks nice.
My first ever amp had a continuously variable loudness function (not a feature I ever used though).

I hope its sound suits you (because you can't judge its sound from a YT video) - let us know.
You never said what your 'mediocre' cables were, but don't waste too much money on new

 

[12th Monkey]

I liked the look of the Wharfdale Evo 4.2 as I can take that size. But I was hoping for solid wood and not veneer. (My epos M5i speakers are cherrywood).

I really wouldn't give that a second thought - you can spend a vast amount and still have veneers - sometimes solid wood is going to be acoustically sub-optimal. If I replaced my D7s with their updated version (at £5.5k*) I'd be getting veneer. Ditto the top of the D range, which is close to £10k.

*Vastly more than I got mine from on eBay, and a massive increase on what they cost new before we re-learned the meaning of the word 'inflation'.

 

[Stuart83]

Hi guys,
From just listening online it seems the Yamaha A-S701 looks the way forward.
Now I live in a small stone cottage, the livingroom is not large and has lots of heavy fabrics.
I have a big stone mantlepiece that is ideal for mounting speakers.
I liked the look of the Wharfdale Evo 4.2 as I can take that size. But I was hoping for solid wood and not veneer. (My epos M5i speakers are cherrywood).
I think I will buy this amp and new cables and see how the sound improves.

Looks a nice amp and did well in the reviews for what that's worth to each individual.

"The Yamaha A-S701 is a beautiful integrated amplifier with a lot of functionality. Its design is very robust and is capable of easily exceeding its specifications. Overall ranking is at the high-end of "very good," bordering on excellent. All of this comes at a reasonable cost"

This teardown shows a decent amp although a mediocre dac and phono stage.

YAMAHA A-S701 - tear-down, thoughts about the internals & few measurements

I bought this amplifier with built-in DAC over 1 year ago from Amazon and had no issue using it several hours per day. My kid is using it daily on TV and XBOX over the SPDIF input, I'm using it couple of times per week as well and it works as expected, as in day one. It's barely warm during...

audiosciencereview.com

Let us know what you think when it arrives.

 

[Jasonovich]

Hi, new here,
My old hifi is sounding tired and fluffy.
I have a Pro-ject turntable, a good Denon cd player, a Arcam alpha 8r, and epos M5 speakers.
On mediocre interconnects/cables.

Do I have to start from scratch? I think my speakers are ok, they just need a small subwoofer support.
Could I use my pre amp out and buy a power amp?
Are my speakers big enough for rock music?

Thanks.

When you upgrade do it incrementally, more cost effective. Those Mike Creek's Epos M5 speakers are highly regarded.
I believe in the day, these costs about £650. I would keep those, not unless you're looking for the extra low frequency extention. Personally I'll keep those. I'll also suggest you hang on to your TT and CD player.

Apologies to Anne Robinson but I do think the weakest link, is your Arcam Amp, I suspect the sound emitting from those are tame and laid back and not very transparent.

You need to ascertain your budget firstly and flick through the WHF reviews, a little pinch of salt, the publishers tend to have a certain bias towards a particular brand.

Good luck in finding the perfect sound for your ears

 

[ticktocktoddy]

I remember the first time I heard my Epos speakers in a hifi shop in Nottingham. They made the ceiling tiles rattle. The whole shop was filled with loud, clear music. I didnt hesitate in buying them for yes approx £650.
I have in a basket Wharfedale Evo 4.2's and the Yamaha A-S701. I'm hoping to blow the socks off my Mrs
What tracks will I play first?

 

[My2Cents]

Has the 'tired and fluffy' sound manifested over time or has it always sounded that way?
i.e. was there a time when the sound was 'energetic and focused'?
It could be that the caps in the Arcam are either drying out or starting to leak. Resistor specs. can also be affected by over heating over time. Any drifting of the amps original spec. can affect the sound.

For 'rock' at higher volume levels, (in the budget price range) a pair of floorstanders may be the way to go.

Perhaps you could have a good amp. tech. take a look inside the Arcam and see if there is anything going on?

I would be looking at an amp. with a large toroidal transformer and a pair of floor standers. (e.g. a CXA61 /QA 5040's.

 

[ticktocktoddy]

I think it was years of me being busy that led to neglect of my hifi.
It wasnt until a surprise visit by a friend - a critical hifi buff - that led me to the realisation of the deterioration. I was quite embarrassed.
I bought a new cartridge for my turntable and made sure my speaker cables had better soldered tips.
The amp is dying. I have to turn the volume knob quite high.

What do you think to the idea of me keeping my Epos, buying a Yamaha, and adding a small Sub to reinforce the sound?

 

[Stuart83]

I think it was years of me being busy that led to neglect of my hifi.
It wasnt until a surprise visit by a friend - a critical hifi buff - that led me to the realisation of the deterioration. I was quite embarrassed.
I bought a new cartridge for my turntable and made sure my speaker cables had better soldered tips.
The amp is dying. I have to turn the volume knob quite high.

What do you think to the idea of me keeping my Epos, buying a Yamaha, and adding a small Sub to reinforce the sound?

I think it's a good idea and a great one if you can demo the amp first maybe look into a home demo for convenience.

Some amps do pick up capacitor value drifts but since recapping my first amp for fun realised from the schematics most of the "drifting caps" usually aren't on signal path that effects sound.

Many an amp ruined by the over enthusiastic with a bag of eBay caps.

It's pot luck as I've got an amp over 33yrs old and from heavy to sporadic usage over the yrs hasn't picked up any drift at all and has a DC offset lower than some of my new kit.
On the other hand I've seen amps with leaking and swollen caps that destroy the sound until the amps imminent failure.

I wonder however if your amp has a bad DC offset which causes a much more immediate decline in sound and if really bad can indeed damage your speakers.

It would account for a fuzzy/fluffy sound via clipping.
It's a simple test with a multimeter and YouTube videos (how to test dc offset on hifi amp)show you how it's done.

Your basically metering the DC leakage from the speaker terminals with anything over 40mv being bad.

I'm currently unsure if your amp type has a DC offset adjustment or what it is ment to be.

I'm in the morning rush but will get back to you if it's a simple quick test you want to pursue.

 

[Jasonovich]

I think it was years of me being busy that led to neglect of my hifi.
It wasnt until a surprise visit by a friend - a critical hifi buff - that led me to the realisation of the deterioration. I was quite embarrassed.
I bought a new cartridge for my turntable and made sure my speaker cables had better soldered tips.
The amp is dying. I have to turn the volume knob quite high.

What do you think to the idea of me keeping my Epos, buying a Yamaha, and adding a small Sub to reinforce the sound?

Epos with a SW will result in better management of the low frequencies. I use to be from the old school that would scorn at the suggestion of a SW, yes in some scenarios, if you already have massive floor standers it could be a little excessive but for medium volume or bookshelf speakers, the additional SW could be a revelation.
SW should be integral of the speakers, in other words 'invisible'. Some tinkering is required to get the perfect balance and alignment.
I think, if I'm not mistaken the Epos have a warm sound, so perhaps, lively sounding SW's like Polk or Klipsch might be better suited than say, Dali's, B&W, Wharfedales, Cambridge etc.

I was browing the internet, picked up some deals on the Klipsch, might be worth investigating?

Klipsch R-121SW Subwoofer - OPEN BOX

CUSTOMER RETURN OPEN BOX - BRAND NEW CONDITION - FULL WARRANTY The Klipsch R-121SW Subwoofer delivers a powerful bass to enhance your home theatre experience. With its revamped spun-copper thermoformed crystalline polymer woofers, the R-121SW provides low-frequency response accompanied by a 12"...

homeavdirect.co.uk

 

[ticktocktoddy]

I just phoned up Wharfdale HQ as I live closer to there than any decent hifi shop. They answer the phone just by saying 'hello'.

Apparently you cant pay them a visit direct.

 

[DiggyGun]

@ticktocktoddy

One of the thoughts, is to upgrade the source first, then amp and finally speakers.

Which Project deck do you have and what upgrades are available for it, power supply, cartridge, phono amp.

DG…

 

[ticktocktoddy]

So, I shopped around. Arriving on thursday is a A-S501 + Evo 4.2
I got the lot for £1000 including complimentary (good) speaker cables.
From Peter Tyson.
Richer sounds advised against it saying they are not sonically suited.
I am not too picky. I just know my old system sounds bad and I am sure the new will sound better.
I nearly stumped up for the Lintons but I dont think they would fit in the available space.