Not all upgrades are equal, but some are more equal than others....

idc

Well-known member
There are many different upgrades, some are rubbish, some are essential (maybe). As a general rule of thumb, I measure how successful an upgrade is by whether it makes the system sound louder without touching the volume. I took this as a good sign because with every system I have had or heard, the louder it got the better it sounded, until it gets excessive and the room starts to vibrate and then distortion kicks in. My list of upgrades and their relative values is;

Worst...........................

- Russ Andrews socket, made no difference, but it had detoxit to help keep the connections clean (see below)

- Tidying the cables and keeping power away from signal cable, no difference

- Mains extension, minute, but it also has surge protection.

- Power cables, none on the amp, a little on the CDP

- Cleaning the contacts (see above) a little at the time of cleaning

- Interconnects, noticeable changes going through no brand, QED and Kimber

- Speaker stands, on their own a little, but filled and with blu tack and screws into the floor boards, noticeable

- Speaker cables, no brand, QED, Kimber, noticeable

- System stand, I was amazed that this made any difference at all, but it was very noticeable

- Attenuated interconnect, between CDP and amp, very noticeable with more volume control

- Mains conditioner, the RA Silencer, works with the TV as well, very noticeable, but more so in some houses than others

- MP3 128kbps to lossless, very noticeable

.........................best.

- PSU, have not tried that one yet.

Each one of those steps was small, but together they make a big difference. There is no doubt that the biggest upgrades are where kit is changed and better CDPs, amps, speakers etc are added. But I also think that you have to spend more money on such an upgrade to get a difference than the above, some of which are very cheap.

I would also say that outwith changing the kit, £150 is the most that any upgrade should cost and beyond that diminishing marginal utility kicks in big style. So a £400 stand or mains conditioner will be a tiny advance of the equivalent at £150 or less.

What say you?
 

idc

Well-known member
al7478:

I say im worried about your obsession with loudness.

Al7478, I was just trying to quantify by what is an upgrade without resourting to terms such as clarity, sound stage etc for which we need a glossary to reach an agreement on! Put it another way; each upgrade is where your system sounds better.
 

jaxwired

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2009
284
6
18,895
Visit site
idc:

- System stand, I was amazed that this made any difference at all, but it was very noticeable

Very noticable? Ranked above cable and speaker stands? Noticable how? Visually?

As I have stated before, I have my kit suspended from a pendulum. This counter acts the earth's rotation at a molecular level.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
it certainly made a difference to my system (much more bass) when i expected none; just needed somewhere to put my kit.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I'd say your upgrade budget is a zero too far, for me anyway. £150 buys a lot of cds/lps, too.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
More loudness? Buy some modern CDs witht he current mastering trend of "IS IT LOUD ENOUGH YET?!". That'll blow the "how good is my upgrade?" theory into next week!
emotion-5.gif


Best upgrade is component based; minimal improvements in cables. For me £80 on a pair of Mission 752s was top of the pile. The new CD player last year at half-price discount was also pretty good. AT440-MLa on the P3 another good one. Total cost for a massive improvement? Less than £500.
 

jaxwired

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2009
284
6
18,895
Visit site
fast eddie:it certainly made a difference to my system (much more bass) when i expected none; just needed somewhere to put my kit.

All I can say is that I used to stack my components on an old end table. When I switched to a dedicated audio rack specifically designed to hold audio equipment, I heard zero change in sound quality. Of course, I was not listening for one. I can see no basis for sound quality changes.

It occurs to me that when people buy a new audio rack, they also are often re-arranging their listening environment at the time. Maybe adding a new cushy chair or redecorating and adding drapes to the windows, that sort of thing. Those changes affect room acoustics which definately do impact sound.

Unless the old rack with super flimsy, like say a cardboard box, or grossly unlevel, simply changing the audio equipment rack seems a very unlikely source for sound improvements... I could see this if say your old rack was also your washing machine...
 

idc

Well-known member
To clarify, I used loudness to try and get a neutral term to explain what I meant by upgrade. I could have used better or improved, but that could generate responses of better, improved how?

I am trying to rate the upgrades I have done over the years and their relative effectiveness. The equipment stand came high up because I was not expecting any difference at all, but it did, especially deeper, firmer bass. I rate it above speaker stands because they only effect the speaker, the main stand had an effect on the CDP, cassette and amp.

The jumps between each upgrade are small and I just called them 'no difference' for just that, 'noticeable' when I could hear a small difference if I listened to the system as opposed to the music and 'very noticeable' if the sound difference was clear.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
jaxwired:

All I can say is that I used to stack my components on an old end table. When I switched to a dedicated audio rack specifically designed to hold audio equipment, I heard zero change in sound quality. Of course, I was not listening for one. I can see no basis for sound quality changes.

It occurs to me that when people buy a new audio rack, they also are often re-arranging their listening environment at the time. Maybe adding a new cushy chair or redecorating and adding drapes to the windows, that sort of thing. Those changes affect room acoustics which definately do impact sound.

Unless the old rack with super flimsy, like say a cardboard box, or grossly unlevel, simply changing the audio equipment rack seems a very unlikely source for sound improvements... I could see this if say your old rack was also your washing machine...

you could be right, i don't remember repositioning my room at the time (other than the location of the stand), but this could be it. Neither the old stand nor the new stand were expensive (£30 ikea tv stand vs £70 pixel shelves).

the main problem i have now is that my current kit doesn't fit, and the only stands like are either proper 'hifi company' stands (and so a little over priced for what they are) or are likely more expensive.

Edit: just found this and this which may fit the bill and save me some cash. :)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
fast eddie:jaxwired:

All I can say is that I used to stack my components on an old end table. When I switched to a dedicated audio rack specifically designed to hold audio equipment, I heard zero change in sound quality. Of course, I was not listening for one. I can see no basis for sound quality changes.

It occurs to me that when people buy a new audio rack, they also are often re-arranging their listening environment at the time. Maybe adding a new cushy chair or redecorating and adding drapes to the windows, that sort of thing. Those changes affect room acoustics which definately do impact sound.

Unless the old rack with super flimsy, like say a cardboard box, or grossly unlevel, simply changing the audio equipment rack seems a very unlikely source for sound improvements... I could see this if say your old rack was also your washing machine...

you could be right, i don't remember repositioning my room at the time (other than the location of the stand), but this could be it. Neither the old stand nor the new stand were expensive (£30 ikea tv stand vs £70 pixel shelves).

the main problem i have now is that my current kit doesn't fit, and the only stands like are either proper 'hifi company' stands (and so a little over priced for what they are) or are likely more expensive.

Edit: just found this and this which may fit the bill and save me some cash. :)

Could it be that when you transferred your kit from the old stand to the new one that you disconnected the units and after istallation re-connected them and so by doing so you cleaned all the cable junctions plugs and sockets and that could be the improvement that you heard..............
 

JoelSim

New member
Aug 24, 2007
767
1
0
Visit site
jaxwired:
fast eddie:it certainly made a difference to my system (much more bass) when i expected none; just needed somewhere to put my kit.

All I can say is that I used to stack my components on an old end table.ÿ When I switched to a dedicated audio rack specifically designed to hold audio equipment, I heard zero change in sound quality.ÿ Of course, I was not listening for one.ÿ I can see no basis for sound quality changes.

It occurs to me that when people buy a new audio rack, they also are often re-arranging their listening environment at the time.ÿ Maybe adding a new cushy chair or redecorating and adding drapes to the windows, that sort of thing.ÿ Those changes affect room acoustics which definately do impact sound.

Unless the old rack with super flimsy, like say a cardboard box, or grossly unlevel, simply changing the audio equipment rack seems a very unlikely source for sound improvements...ÿ I could see this if say your old rack was also your washing machine...

The difference when I moved my kit from being stacked to a rack was huge.ÿ
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
did you move the room about too?

I'm now torn between getting a 'proper' rack just in case it does make that much difference, and just sticking with getting that lovely wood one i linked to.

I guess given the difficulty of demoing racks i'd never know if i was missing out greatly. (none of my local stores has them in stock so its orders as and when, and those that do have them set up have kit on them so i probably couldn't home demo anyway)
 
idc:

There are many different upgrades, some are rubbish, some are essential (maybe). As a general rule of thumb, I measure how successful an upgrade is by whether it makes the system sound louder without touching the volume. I took this as a good sign because with every system I have had or heard, the louder it got the better it sounded, until it gets excessive and the room starts to vibrate and then distortion kicks in. My list of upgrades and their relative values is;

Worst...........................

- Russ Andrews socket, made no difference, but it had detoxit to help keep the connections clean (see below)

- Tidying the cables and keeping power away from signal cable, no difference

- Mains extension, minute, but it also has surge protection.

- Power cables, none on the amp, a little on the CDP

- Cleaning the contacts (see above) a little at the time of cleaning

- Interconnects, noticeable changes going through no brand, QED and Kimber

- Speaker stands, on their own a little, but filled and with blu tack and screws into the floor boards, noticeable

- Speaker cables, no brand, QED, Kimber, noticeable

- System stand, I was amazed that this made any difference at all, but it was very noticeable

- Attenuated interconnect, between CDP and amp, very noticeable with more volume control

- Mains conditioner, the RA Silencer, works with the TV as well, very noticeable, but more so in some houses than others

- MP3 128kbps to lossless, very noticeable

.........................best.

- PSU, have not tried that one yet.

Each one of those steps was small, but together they make a big difference. There is no doubt that the biggest upgrades are where kit is changed and better CDPs, amps, speakers etc are added. But I also think that you have to spend more money on such an upgrade to get a difference than the above, some of which are very cheap.

I would also say that outwith changing the kit, £150 is the most that any upgrade should cost and beyond that diminishing marginal utility kicks in big style. So a £400 stand or mains conditioner will be a tiny advance of the equivalent at £150 or less.

What say you?

I think that extra volume does not necessarily = better sound. I personally try and narrow down where the system can be improved sound-wise, in relation to the prices of each component.

For example, my last upgrade was two years ago, after buying my RS6's. Not in a position to shell out loads of money on a full-blown upgrade, I decided my interconnects were the weak link.

I concluded that my Arcs lacked a bit of transparency and openness, so I decided to replace my Chord Chryaslis with Merlin Chopin leads. I now know I have extended my amp and CD player as much as one can, and BINGO, it did the trick - and with no noticable lift in volume.
 

idc

Well-known member
fast eddie: I'm now torn between getting a 'proper' rack just in case it does make that much difference, and just sticking with getting that lovely wood one i linked to.

Eddie, so long as the rack is solid and level, that is the main thing. A good (not necessarily purpose built or expensive) rack will improve sound by reducing vibration and improving ventilation. I had my amp raised on wooden children's building blocks to help ventilation and that made for a slight improvement in clarity. I should have mentioned that in my original list of upgrades!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
idc:
fast eddie: I'm now torn between getting a 'proper' rack just in case it does make that much difference, and just sticking with getting that lovely wood one i linked to.

Eddie, so long as the rack is solid and level, that is the main thing. A good (not necessarily purpose built or expensive) rack will improve sound by reducing vibration and improving ventilation. I had my amp raised on wooden children's building blocks to help ventilation and that made for a slight improvement in clarity. I should have mentioned that in my original list of upgrades!

Yeah, The main thing i can see is important in the hifi racks is the mentioning of isolating the components so i could, in thoery get away with the normal rack and some of those isonode type things if it came to it.

hopefully the floors in my new flat are nice and level....

i did have a thought about my old rack vs current one and thats going from rubber/plastic wheels to proper feet and clamped shelves rather than just placed on top.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
jaxwired:
fast eddie:Edit: just found this and this which may fit the bill and save me some cash. :)

I like the wood one. That's a keeper...
they also do one thats slightly higher 75cm vs 50 which might be better as less bending down required! :)

I think we will be buying the full set, tv stand sidetable thing and coffee table for a nice co-ordinated livingroom.
 

idc

Well-known member
The owner, founder of Linn, Ivor Tiefenbrun apparently used to demonstrate kit on these.....................................

images


the Lacks table from Ikea! I had a Target stand which was £250 and looked beautiful and it was a piece of furniture as well as a stand. It was very heavy, had spiked feet, had a metal frame with wooden shelves which had little soft pads on each corner to rest on the frame. The top shelf rested on tiny spikes buit into the frame and was intended for a turntable.

My present kit is onto top of a John Lewis cabinet made from sheesham, an Indian rosewood. It is very solid as cabinets can act as boomboxes and vibrate to the music. My Bose has little rubber feet and the headphone amp has it's dampened 'legs'.
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts