New Floorstanding Speakers £1500-£2000

[CnoEvil]

As for the linn sneaky Ds is this a pretty old model? or have they updated this i think i saw a review from 2009?

The Sneaky may be old, but imo still sounds better than the competition (all imo)....give it a listen and see for yourself.

 

[davedotco]

Mmmmmmm, interesting.

Given the probable limits on the source quality, I wonder if a slightly different approach might be the way forward.

Rather than buying speakers that will, in the modern trend, be somewhat analytical and revealing, why not try speakers that may be less revealing but make up for that by bringing other qualities to the table.

I'm thinking of some simple single driver designs, perhaps some horns, in fact any speaker that majors on factors other than the usual modern requirement for detail resolution.

For example, how about a pair of Klipsch Heresy III, should be well within budget if you look around, or simple full range systems using, say, Fostex drive units as produced by Wilmslow Audio.

I don't often disagree with you, but I'm not sure that trying to mask the crappyness of the source is the way forward....and it is still quite possible to get modern speakers that are not analytical (eg. SF Toy Towers).

Clearly source is pre-eminent, I was offering options if the OP was going to stick with sub-optimal sources, which it apears from later posts is not the case.

It is an interesting question that I have looked into in some detail, these days 90+% of my listening is Spotify Premium, a sub-optimal source by some standards. I was looking at systems a couple of years ago and after listening to Spotify on systems at different price levels and decided partly by listening and partly by 'gut reaction' to limit my expendature to about £2k or there abouts.

BTW, I was thinking about Sonus Fabers but am not that familier with the Toy or older Domus models. The old Concertino models would certainly be an option but are long discontinued.

Also I do not think that the speakers I mentioned will cover much up, but they do major on different virtues, presence, dynamics most notably.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I can only offer an opinion about the Marantz NA8005; it's the upgrade to my NA7004 and I am very pleased with its functionality and SQ. NA7004 was originally on sale for £700 but I got mine for much less just before it was discontinued.

 

[matt49]

Im interested in what you guys say about ripping files and general audio file quality. Historically i have always downloads with the best possible quality i can 320Kps or below on many occasions but can i get better quality by ripping? or by converting them into lossless format? i have never done this before and wouldnt know how to go about it.

Ripping CDs to a lossless format is really very simple. The simplest way is to use iTunes. Just make sure you have the iTunes settings correct before you start, as follows:

Click on the 'Edit' drop-down menu and select 'Preferences'.

On the 'General Preferences' page, click the 'Import settings' button.

From the 'Import using' menu select either 'AIFF encoder' or 'Apple Lossless encoder' (it doesn't really make any difference which you choose: both are lossless).

While you're at it, check the 'Use error correction when reading audio CDs' checkbox. This last option corrects read errors, though it does also make ripping a fair bit slower.

However: there's no value at all in coverting a 320kbps file to a lossless format. You cannot restore lost digital information. This is why you should always rip CDs to a lossless format first. If you need to compress your lossless files onto an iPod later, you can always make lossy copies of them. But be sure to keep the original lossless rips on your PC.

Happy ripping!

Matt

 

[krish123]

Im interested in what you guys say about ripping files and general audio file quality. Historically i have always downloads with the best possible quality i can 320Kps or below on many occasions but can i get better quality by ripping? or by converting them into lossless format? i have never done this before and wouldnt know how to go about it.

Ripping CDs to a lossless format is really very simple. The simplest way is to use iTunes. Just make sure you have the iTunes settings correct before you start, as follows:

Click on the 'Edit' drop-down menu and select 'Preferences'.

On the 'General Preferences' page, click the 'Import settings' button.

From the 'Import using' menu select either 'AIFF encoder' or 'Apple Lossless encoder' (it doesn't really make any difference which you choose: both are lossless).

While you're at it, check the 'Use error correction when reading audio CDs' checkbox. This last option corrects read errors, though it does also make ripping a fair bit slower.

However: there's no value at all in coverting a 320kbps file to a lossless format. You cannot restore lost digital information. This is why you should always rip CDs to a lossless format first. If you need to compress your lossless files onto an iPod later, you can always make lossy copies of them. But be sure to keep the original lossless rips on your PC.

Happy ripping!

Matt

Right so ripping only applies to CD's that you import.

What about music downloads from the net? If its at 320KPS there not much u can do to improve it?

Majority of my music library on itunes is from downloads from the web rather than imports from CD's. Will i still get decent quality output if i were to put this on a NAS and then stream through a streamer?

 

[krish123]

I can only offer an opinion about the Marantz NA8005; it's the upgrade to my NA7004 and I am very pleased with its functionality and SQ. NA7004 was originally on sale for £700 but I got mine for much less just before it was discontinued.

so u went from na7004 to the 8005? how much of a difference did you see?

The new streamer looks pretty decent tbh and looks very nice too.

Wats the rest of your system?

 

[Covenanter]

I ripped all my CD's to FLAC. I've now got 2000 (roughly) CD's at my finger tips that I can browse on an app from the couch. I can random play the whole collection or make huge playlists or play single tracks, whole albums. No more trying to rake through a vast physical collection of CD's for something to listen to. It also cleans up the listening room as all my CD's are now tucked away in a cupboard.

I've had CD players since the 1980's, you couldn't pay me to go back to a CD player!

Jitter is much lower in streamers, there's no moving parts afterall and there'd be no more problems with scratched CD's. You could set it up to stream to other rooms too, no problems. I think an ethernet cable is good up to around 100 metres so you should have plenty to spare.

What a load of nonsense! I've never heard any jitter from a decent, or indeed a cheap, CD player. Any how do you scratch a CD. I've had CDs ever since they started and I've never scratched one. Do you use them as Frisbees or something, maybe coasters?

Chris

 

[matt49]

Right so ripping only applies to CD's that you import.

What about music downloads from the net? If its at 320KPS there not much u can do to improve it?

Majority of my music library on itunes is from downloads from the web rather than imports from CD's. Will i still get decent quality output if i were to put this on a NAS and then stream through a streamer?

There's nothing you can do to restore information to a digital file that has had information extracted from it. Converting a 320kbps file into a lossless format is a waste of time. However, 320kbps can in many circumstances sound indistinguishable from a lossless file. Assuming the file was originally encoded at 320kbps (and you have no way of knowing that, unless it came from a kosher source or you did the encoding yourself), then it should sound fine.

However, the point still stands. All of these files would originally have existed in CD-quality format. The only way to ensure CD quality is to buy CDs or download 16/44.1 files.

If I were you, I'd be asking myself this: do I want to spend my money on a great hi-fi rig to play less-than-perfect files, or do I want to invest some money in buying the best quality files? Your choice ...

Matt

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Ditto your remarks re cd players.

I've never scatched a cd either, but zoverstocks used cd's are sometimes a different matter; and it's always on the last few tracks. Not had many problem ones though and at 20p for a cd album it's worth a punt.

Why can't I get the animated smiley's to work! Grrr.

 

[Gazzip]

I have had both KEF R700's as well as R500's. £ for £ the 500's are the better speaker in my opinion. Tighter, faster, better soundstage etc.

I wouldn't worry too much about your source. The difference between MP3 and FLAC, although audible, is nothing compared to good speaker vs very good speaker. I suggest trying your current source with the R500's followed by a new source in your current setup. Easy way of deciding for yourself, no?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I can only offer an opinion about the Marantz NA8005; it's the upgrade to my NA7004 and I am very pleased with its functionality and SQ. NA7004 was originally on sale for £700 but I got mine for much less just before it was discontinued.

so u went from na7004 to the 8005? how much of a difference did you see?

The new streamer looks pretty decent tbh and looks very nice too.

Wats the rest of your system?

Not quite, I worded my response poorly. I currently have the Marantz NA7004 matched with Marantz Pearl Lite amp and sacd player, speakers are PMC DB1. I only bought the NA7004 for its dac to link to my pc, (pc has a digital output, but a very poor soundcard), and I have been very pleased with its performance so far, (using foobar as media player and majority of rips are lossless cd quality).

The NA8005 and NA7004 look identical but the 8005 is the current model and has additional functionality.

 

[Jota180]

I ripped all my CD's to FLAC. I've now got 2000 (roughly) CD's at my finger tips that I can browse on an app from the couch. I can random play the whole collection or make huge playlists or play single tracks, whole albums. No more trying to rake through a vast physical collection of CD's for something to listen to. It also cleans up the listening room as all my CD's are now tucked away in a cupboard.

I've had CD players since the 1980's, you couldn't pay me to go back to a CD player!

Jitter is much lower in streamers, there's no moving parts afterall and there'd be no more problems with scratched CD's. You could set it up to stream to other rooms too, no problems. I think an ethernet cable is good up to around 100 metres so you should have plenty to spare.

What a load of nonsense! I've never heard any jitter from a decent, or indeed a cheap, CD player. Any how do you scratch a CD. I've had CDs ever since they started and I've never scratched one. Do you use them as Frisbees or something, maybe coasters?

Chris

Jitter is higher in CD players than streamers. Fact.

I've had CD's that skip or tracks that wouldn't play. Just doesn't happen in a ripped FLAC file. My CD is stored away in 'as new' condition. Anyone playing theirs day in day out will find it soon starts looking worse for wear.

Like for like components, a streamer has so many less disadvantages than a CD player. There's no mechanical moving parts that compromise sound quality in a streamer = win. And that's before we even get to the convenience factor.

It wont be long before the only place you'll find CD players are in museums, on google and in crusty old dudes houses!

 

[Deleted member 108165]

It wont be long before the only place you'll find CD players are in museums, on google and in crusty old dudes houses!

That would be my house then and I'm proud of it. I'm all for embracing new tech but leave some of us old codgers with kit that we actually know how to work. I've even just invested in a new turntable thing to play something called vinyl; I hear it's all the rage now.

You'll be exactly the same when you reach old codgers age...

 

[rainsoothe]

I wouldn't worry too much about your source. The difference between MP3 and FLAC, although audible, is nothing compared to good speaker vs very good speaker. Easy way of deciding for yourself, no?

I beg to differ - the better the system, the more revealing of a crrappy source it is. I, for one, went to my old mp3 library after 1 year of listening to CD quality upwards only, and I couldn't listen to more then 3 mp3s - not trying to be a snob about it, it just sounded like an old mobile phone with stock earbuds, a mushy mess.

But I 100% agree with this:

Easy way of deciding for yourself, no?

Oh, and nice system you got there btw

BACK TO OP:

- on ripping: as others have said, converting 320k mp3s won't do anything, since the information is already missing - but indeed that's pretty close to CD quality. Only rip CD's you already have, and get ALAC/AIFF downloads if you can find them from now on.

- if elegance is what you are looking for when interfacing with the streamer, then something like an iPad is the way to go (or whatever tablet you're using).

- Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 v2, Marantz NA8005, Linn Sneaky DS and Naim ND5XS (and all naim streamers for that matter) are very well built and regarded products, so try audition these.

- as for speakers, in case you'll still be looking to upgrade these as well, KEF R500 are indeed very well regarded (I haven't heard them) and +1 for Sonus Faber Toy Towers. I would also suggest adding these to your shortlist: B&W 683 S2, Proac Response D18 and Martin Logan Motion 40 (I use these with Supernait 2 and they're "da bomb" - pardon my french).

 

[Al ears]

It wont be long before the only place you'll find CD players are in museums, on google and in crusty old dudes houses!

That would be my house then and I'm proud of it. I'm all for embracing new tech but leave some of us old codgers with kit that we actually know how to work. I've even just invested in a new turntable thing to play something called vinyl; I hear it's all the rage now.

You'll be exactly the same when you reach old codgers age...

I totally agree that CDs and the players themselves are far from dead. Just like the death of vinyl they will continue and prosper. CD players in the form of bluray players etc and dedicated CD or even SACD players are, and will, keep going strong. The big boys are still producing CD players in vast numbers, often as CD-DAC's, and they know a thing or two about the market.

I use all formats from vinyl to HiRes downloads but until every piece of music being produced is available as a hires download then, to my mind, CDs / SACDs will still be utilised.

Now where did I leave my zimmer-frame?

 

[Covenanter]

I ripped all my CD's to FLAC. I've now got 2000 (roughly) CD's at my finger tips that I can browse on an app from the couch. I can random play the whole collection or make huge playlists or play single tracks, whole albums. No more trying to rake through a vast physical collection of CD's for something to listen to. It also cleans up the listening room as all my CD's are now tucked away in a cupboard.

I've had CD players since the 1980's, you couldn't pay me to go back to a CD player!

Jitter is much lower in streamers, there's no moving parts afterall and there'd be no more problems with scratched CD's. You could set it up to stream to other rooms too, no problems. I think an ethernet cable is good up to around 100 metres so you should have plenty to spare.

What a load of nonsense! I've never heard any jitter from a decent, or indeed a cheap, CD player. Any how do you scratch a CD. I've had CDs ever since they started and I've never scratched one. Do you use them as Frisbees or something, maybe coasters?

Chris

Jitter is higher in CD players than streamers. Fact.

I've had CD's that skip or tracks that wouldn't play. Just doesn't happen in a ripped FLAC file. My CD is stored away in 'as new' condition. Anyone playing theirs day in day out will find it soon starts looking worse for wear.

Like for like components, a streamer has so many less disadvantages than a CD player. There's no mechanical moving parts that compromise sound quality in a streamer = win. And that's before we even get to the convenience factor.

It wont be long before the only place you'll find CD players are in museums, on google and in crusty old dudes houses!

I'm happy to be considered a "crusty old dude". I think CD players will be around for a long time as there is a large population of people with collections. I'm not in anyway averse to streaming and may well invest in a streamer soon, I already have a NAS, and I can see its benefits. When they put me in my retirement home that's the way I will go but for now I can walk to the CD player every 1/2 hour or so. I think streaming is great for people who have large collections of "pop" music who want to skip from track to track and artist to artist. For clasical it's rather less attractive.

I've not heard a CD skip or miss a track since the 1990s apart from one which I sent straight back to Amazon which had a gouge out of it. I play CDs most mornings and afternoons, 4 or 5 hours a day, and don't have these problems. I do treat them carefully though.

Chris

 

[gowiththeflow]

.......The big boys are still producing CD players in vast numbers, often as CD-DAC's, and they know a thing or two about the market......

Errr, well actually they're not producing in vast numbers anymore. Production volumes are reported to be significantly down and so is the range of players on offer, dramatically so in many cases, compared to only 5 years ago.

Linn famously dropped CD players many years ago.

Arcam now only have one CD/SACD player left in their range, the new CDS27, which is a combined CD/SACD player and Streamer. It may well be their last CD player?

Even mass market Sony, who once had a number of models of CD and SACD player in both mainstream and their more expensive Audiophile oriented ranges, now only have one single SACD/CD player.

A few expensive High-end brands have either stopped selling their own CD players, or have not replaced older models alongside their other updated products, like amps, DAC's etc. Most have now added streamers to their portfolios.

Marantz seem to be the last bastion in offering a range of CD and SACD players (3 CD & 3 SACD/CD), but they appear to be unusual in this respect.

I've no doubt that CD/SACD players will be around for many years to come, but the demand for new ones will inevitably continue to shrink and as such, so will the number of players being offered. I expect we'll see more bundling of CD/SACD capability with other functions e.g. Streamers.

.

 

[krish123]

In my situation i think NAS and a streamer is the way to go, atm my music is all over the place and i havent got it stored in one place where i can play in good audio quality.

From now on i will try download 320KPS files or ALAC files to get the best quality. Saying that all the CD's i burnt in the past were files of this quality or less and still sounds very decent through my CDP. So as long as i keep the file quality decent i think it will be a good standard through a streamer.

My main issue is connecting my streamer up. Can i have a secondary router in my converted garage and connect the streamer wired to this?

As for which streamer something like the MArantz fits the bill it looks good, has enough features and should sound good, although i would like to know more of its sound characteristics. i mean how would this compare to my Sugden CD21 MK2 CDP that cost £1500 new?

 

[CnoEvil]

I recomended the Sneaky as, like the Sugden, it has a very refined musical presentation.....only I would expect it to be better (with 16 bit).

 

[Al ears]

In my situation i think NAS and a streamer is the way to go, atm my music is all over the place and i havent got it stored in one place where i can play in good audio quality.

From now on i will try download 320KPS files or ALAC files to get the best quality. Saying that all the CD's i burnt in the past were files of this quality or less and still sounds very decent through my CDP. So as long as i keep the file quality decent i think it will be a good standard through a streamer.

My main issue is connecting my streamer up. Can i have a secondary router in my converted garage and connect the streamer wired to this?

As for which streamer something like the MArantz fits the bill it looks good, has enough features and should sound good, although i would like to know more of its sound characteristics. i mean how would this compare to my Sugden CD21 MK2 CDP that cost £1500 new?

The easiest way to connect your stremer in the garage is by using a pair of 'Homplug' like I do to get connection on the lower floor of my house. However this will only work if the power circuit in your garage is on the same ring-main circuit as your house.

You do not need the secondary router if on the same ring-main just ethernet cable to the Homeplug device.

 

[krish123]

In my situation i think NAS and a streamer is the way to go, atm my music is all over the place and i havent got it stored in one place where i can play in good audio quality.

From now on i will try download 320KPS files or ALAC files to get the best quality. Saying that all the CD's i burnt in the past were files of this quality or less and still sounds very decent through my CDP. So as long as i keep the file quality decent i think it will be a good standard through a streamer.

My main issue is connecting my streamer up. Can i have a secondary router in my converted garage and connect the streamer wired to this?

As for which streamer something like the MArantz fits the bill it looks good, has enough features and should sound good, although i would like to know more of its sound characteristics. i mean how would this compare to my Sugden CD21 MK2 CDP that cost £1500 new?

The easiest way to connect your stremer in the garage is by using a pair of 'Homplug' like I do to get connection on the lower floor of my house. However this will only work if the power circuit in your garage is on the same ring-main circuit as your house.

You do not need the secondary router if on the same ring-main just ethernet cable to the Homeplug device.

Thanks for that AL i will have to check this. If this is the case which homeplug do you recommend?

 

[gowiththeflow]

.......If this is the case which homeplug do you recommend?

Devolo. More expensive than most other makes, but solid and reliable. Avoid cheapo makes.

200 or prefererably 500 mbps speed or higher.

.

 

[Tannoyed]

Recently bought some R700's. Loads of power and reasonable bass. Very good on orchestral stuff. Great detail. I tried CM9's and tried even harder to love them but to me they lack sparkle and I had a lot of trouble with piano music. Recording defects seemed to be enhanced by the tweeter units-there was a horrible rattling sound on the attack part of each keystroke in both channels and on more than one pair. Overall I love the R 700's. £1800 in black.

 

[krish123]

I have checked in regards to the ring main and it is the same as my house, so a homeplug will be a good solution!

Im definitely going down the route of the streamer +NAS but im waiting to sell my multichannel power amp (pass labs X5) to get some funds together.

I had a thought though that if i get the NAS now i can begin the process of transfering my music onto the drive.

in terms of what im looking for from the NAS drive i want it to look fairly decent and not to big and i reckon 2TB of storage capacity will be more than enough?

Recommendations welcome

 

[Covenanter]

I have a Westerm Digital My Book Live and it was very easy to set up (plug and play) and has been 100% reliable. I've not used it for music yet but I know others have and it should be fine.

The "personal cloud" facility whch allows you to access any of your stored data from anywhere on the internet is great too.

Cheap too!

Chris