New Floorstanding Speakers £1500-£2000

[krish123]

Hi Guys,

Im looking for some new floorstanders in the price range above and recently demoed Monitor auio silver 8's and 10's, both good speakers i thought but is there anything better?

Iv seen the likes of Kef r500 and 700 in the same bracket how do these compare? are they any other speakers i should be looking at?

My system Currently comprises of Musical fidelity A5 preamp, MF 550k power amps and Monitor audio RS6 Speakers. As for my source im a bit stuck with this atm, i dont really use CD's any more and usually play music off youtube on my Iphone or Ipod. I may look to get a DAC and play through this , is this right way to go about getting a decent standard of source?

 

[CnoEvil]

PMC GB1i (still available)

Proac Response D18 (a little over budget)

Vienna Acoustics Bach Grand

Spendor A5

Kudos X3 (a little over budget)

Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 (ex-dem)

 

[plastic penguin]

I'd be looking at PMC Twenty 23 (or the standmount version, 22s), ProAc D18, Tannoy Precision range...

The RS6s are excellent speakers but were only £600 at the time of release, so they will have limitations.

Find a dealer and have a dem of a couple of different brands and see where that takes you.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I really depends what sort of sound you're after, but as well as the KEFs, there's also the B&W CM8 S2 and CM9 S2 models, Spendor A5r, and the Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 which are just outside your stated budget.

I'd definitely investigate what a DAC can do for you - the Chord Hugo would be the reference here. I was. I was very surprised what a different DAC could do even using Napster as a source.

 

[krish123]

Thanks for the replies. I actually have a DAC in my bedroom setup, a Bushmaster MK2 which made a decent difference to the sound quality.

I will check out the DAC you recommended David.

Also to note im happy to go second hand as long as condition is excellent.

 

[stevebrock]

Look at Kudos & Neat

 

[michael hoy]

Is it really worth it when the source is not that good.

 

[Al ears]

Is it really worth it when the source is not that good.

I was thinking the same myself. There is only so much a DAC can do (even the Chord Hugo) when all you have as a source is an iPod (and hopefully apple lossless files as a minimum). EDIT: Sorry just noticed the OP said downloads from Youtube - what kind of resolution does this music normally come in?? Perhaps he'd be better off utilising a computer of some sort with hiRes files, a decent software player and a decent dac.

However, that aside the Kef R500's recently won a group test of speakers in the £1500 range and having heard them I can see why.

I would strongly urge the OP to audition whatever he can (at home if at all possible) as the suggestions so far are going to sound quite a bit different tro what he already owns and may not sound ideal in his listening room (yes, I know that may be stating the obvious but you'd be surprised the number of people that will blow this sort on money on a pair of speakers just because they got a good review by some guy that has a soundproofed barn as an auditioning room.)

 

[krish123]

Is it really worth it when the source is not that good.

I was thinking the same myself. There is only so much a DAC can do (even the Chord Hugo) when all you have as a source is an iPod (and hopefully apple lossless files as a minimum). EDIT: Sorry just noticed the OP said downloads from Youtube - what kind of resolution does this music normally come in?? Perhaps he'd be better off utilising a computer of some sort with hiRes files, a decent software player and a decent dac.

However, that aside the Kef R500's recently won a group test of speakers in the £1500 range and having heard them I can see why.

I would strongly urge the OP to audition whatever he can (at home if at all possible) as the suggestions so far are going to sound quite a bit different tro what he already owns and may not sound ideal in his listening room (yes, I know that may be stating the obvious but you'd be surprised the number of people that will blow this sort on money on a pair of speakers just because they got a good review by some guy that has a soundproofed barn as an auditioning room.)

You make a very valid point here, and iv just been thinking to myself maybe i need to sort out the source first. But what is the solution to the way i play music i.e through an ipod or through youtube.

What will provide me with the quality of sound i want and the ability to store my music or stream through youtube for instance.

You also make a good point on the room itself. My listening room has wooden flooring and is pretty bare atm and i know this could be improved. Im thinking of getting a thick rug under all of my equipment (as it is all across one wall), will doing something like this change the sound for the better at all?

 

[matt49]

You make a very valid point here, and iv just been thinking to myself maybe i need to sort out the source first. But what is the solution to the way i play music i.e through an ipod or through youtube.

What will provide me with the quality of sound i want and the ability to store my music or stream through youtube for instance.

I think the point is that streaming via Youtube is in itself problematic. IIRC Youtube can stream audio at 384kbps which, while not CD quality, can sound virtually indistinguishable from it. However, that's assuming the uploaded files were encoded at 384kbps, and there's no guarantee that that is the case. You may be listening to a file that was encoded at 192kbps or worse. Using a transparent DAC isn't going to improve the original encoding bitrate.

The same applies to your iPod. If you ripped music from CD in a lossless format, then fine. But if you're using iTunes downloads (currently max. 256kbps), your hi-fi equipment cannot improve the quality of the source material beyond the given bitrate.

I'm not suggesing it's pointless to buy a good hi-fi rig; only that the fidelity of the sound it produces is going to be limited by the bitrate of the digital files.

If you want to guarantee better quality files, you can buy and rip CDs or download CD-quality files (16 bits, 44.1KHz).

I buy CDs and rip them to a PC in a lossless format. I play them from the PC (using JRiver, though there are any number of good audio players) into a DAC via ethernet (USB would be just as good).

Matt

 

[Al ears]

You make a very valid point here, and iv just been thinking to myself maybe i need to sort out the source first. But what is the solution to the way i play music i.e through an ipod or through youtube.

What will provide me with the quality of sound i want and the ability to store my music or stream through youtube for instance.

I think the point is that streaming via Youtube is in itself problematic. IIRC Youtube can stream audio at 384kbps which, while not CD quality, can sound virtually indistinguishable from it. However, that's assuming the uploaded files were encoded at 384kbps, and there's no guarantee that that is the case. You may be listening to a file that was encoded at 192kbps or worse. Using a transparent DAC isn't going to improve the original encoding bitrate.

The same applies to your iPod. If you ripped music from CD in a lossless format, then fine. But if you're using iTunes downloads (currently max. 256kbps), your hi-fi equipment cannot improve the quality of the source material beyond the given bitrate.

I'm not suggesing it's pointless to buy a good hi-fi rig; only that the fidelity of the sound it produces is going to be limited by the bitrate of the digital files.

If you want to guarantee better quality files, you can buy and rip CDs or download CD-quality files (16 bits, 44.1KHz).

I buy CDs and rip them to a PC in a lossless format. I play them from the PC (using JRiver, though there are any number of good audio players) into a DAC via ethernet (USB would be just as good).

Matt

That was my point Matt49, basically garbage in / amplified garbage out. Why would you want to play that through a hifi system like krish123's?

Surely to get the music onto the ipod in the first place a computer must have been used. This gives you access to CD quality files and above, it is the insistence on using an iPod that is complicating matters here.

To krish123 I would say yes, the idea of using rugs/ curtains/ soft furnishings is always helpful in a bare and reflective room but bear in mind it is often cheaper to find a speaker that suits the room than it is to alter the room to suit the speaker.

For what its worth matt49 I do basically the same as you with rips and hiRes downloads via the latest JRiver MC (20) and ethernet to a DAC (namely my Oppo 105).

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm with those that say the system will need an appropriate source to reach its potential.

 

[plastic penguin]

Personally I would be looking at this streamer. It'll give you more flexibility and it's heavily discounted from the normal RRP. After then I would look at speakers should you feel the need.

Having owned RS6s for more years than I care to remember, they will shine with high quality amp and source. You've clearly own the former, the source is to be addressed.

 

[krish123]

Thanks for the replies guys i think its clear that i need to address the source i am using as there is no point in upgrading my speakers. I was actually listening through my cd player today (Sugden cd21 MK2) and it did make me realise the quality is much better.

But as i dont use CD's anymore and i think the solution will be to buy a decent streamer, have all of my music on a NAS storage device and go down this route, is this the right way of going about things do you reckon?

In terms of the music i tend to download as high quality files as i can 320 Bits where possible. But lately do to the lack of time iv been just streaming through youtube.

I guess what i will need to do is get all existing CD's together and get this on a NAS drive and also all the music on my comp and transfer it all over.

In terms of a Streamer What exactly can they offer and can anyone recommend a decent one? Id look to spend around £1000 and again i dont mind going second hand to get an even better product.

Also do streamers rely heavily on a wireless internet connection? as my listening room is outside of my house and the internet isnt 100% brilliant but i think overall it should be ok i may need some kind of booster or something.

 

[CnoEvil]

In terms of a Streamer What exactly can they offer and can anyone recommend a decent one? Id look to spend around £1000 and again i dont mind going second hand to get an even better product.

Have a listen to a Linn Sneaky DS....especially as you are coming from a Sugden CDP.

FWIW. I would rip everything in lossless, as storage is cheap.

 

[Vladimir]

JBL LS80 cost bit less than MA GX200 but perform as good as if not better (definetely more wow factor) than the more expensive MA GX300.

When I heard the JBL LS80 I was very impressed. Most new MAs left me with sore ears and underwhelmed for their bass response.

 

[matt49]

That was my point Matt49, basically garbage in / amplified garbage out. Why would you want to play that through a hifi system like krish123's?

Indeed, I was reiterating your point and should have said so.

Thanks for the replies guys i think its clear that i need to address the source i am using as there is no point in upgrading my speakers. I was actually listening through my cd player today (Sugden cd21 MK2) and it did make me realise the quality is much better.

But as i dont use CD's anymore and i think the solution will be to buy a decent streamer, have all of my music on a NAS storage device and go down this route, is this the right way of going about things do you reckon?

In terms of the music i tend to download as high quality files as i can 320 Bits where possible. But lately do to the lack of time iv been just streaming through youtube.

I guess what i will need to do is get all existing CD's together and get this on a NAS drive and also all the music on my comp and transfer it all over.

In terms of a Streamer What exactly can they offer and can anyone recommend a decent one? Id look to spend around £1000 and again i dont mind going second hand to get an even better product.

Also do streamers rely heavily on a wireless internet connection? as my listening room is outside of my house and the internet isnt 100% brilliant but i think overall it should be ok i may need some kind of booster or something.

It sounds like you're a bit short of time, and ripping your whole CD collection to a PC might be a bridge too far. You could make things easier for yourself by investing in a box that rips and streams. There are several brands that do this: Naim, Sony, Olive etc etc.

As far as functionality is concerned, there are four aspects to consider;

1) how much control do you want over the tagging and sorting of your files?

2) the ease of use of the GUI: Sonos is famously good in this respect.

3) multi-room streaming: again Sonos and other products make this very easy.

4) integration of other services such as streaming (Spotify, Deezer, Qobuz etc) and internet radio.

I've been using Sonos for nearly 10 years now. It's laughably easy to set up, very robust, and offers a good range of products, from the basic Connect unit (a box with digital and line-level analogue outs for less than £300), through amps, to speakers, a sound bar and a sub (in case you want to integrate it with your TV). It doesn't play hi-res files though.

Alternatively you could, for not much more money, buy a small computer (Intel NUC or Mac Mini) and install e.g. JRiver, which would be just as good (if not better) in SQ terms and would allow you to play hi-res files. JRiver can be controlled from a smartphone or tablet with the oustanding JRemote app.

If you go this route, you'll need a USB DAC: something like the Musical Fidelity V90 DAC or the Micromega MyDAC will only set you back around £200.

Sonos doesn't depend on a wireless connection. You can connect it to your router and NAS via ethernet. It sets up its own (utterly stable) mesh wireless network which it uses to communicate between Sonos units.

Cno's recommendation of the Linn Sneaky is a good one, but the cost is greater and IMO the interface is poor compared to Sonos or JRiver/JRemote.

Matt

 

[rainsoothe]

hey

plenty of useful advice here, and I'm with the others - get your source sorted for now and worry about speakers later, since yours ain't too shabby.

Ok, about streaming - for now, most users and manufacturers recommend staying away from Wi-Fi if you can and use an Ethernet connection instead (which means wired). So if you could run a wire from a router to your auditioning place, it would be awesome - if not, there could be several ways of going around it, one that pops into my head right now is having a wireless router AND the NAS in the listening place, keep the NAS wired to THAT router and only use the router for ripping your CDs and updating the NAS firmware and stuff like that. Then theres these things you'll need:

1. RIPPING SOLLUTION: you will need a way to rip your CDs to the NAS, be it a laptop with a CD drive or whatever PC/Mac sollution, OR a dedicated ripper (which sometimes functions as a NAS and even Ripper+NAS+Streamer as well, like the ones here: http://www.vortexbox.co.uk/)

2. NAS: there's plenty out there, some (including me) use Synology.

3. STREAMER: this can either be a dedicated streamer, which usually has a DAC in it - like the Pioneer N50, Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 v2, Naim ND5XS etc OR a PC/Laptop (which would require a separate DAC). Wired connection is recommended between your NAS, Router and Streamer. IMPORTANT: if you use the Apple ecosystem, make sure the streamer of your choice supports Apple Lossless format (ALAC) - for instance, I think the Pioneer has this problem. From this perspective, using a laptop as a streamer is more versatile, since you can just use whatever software plays all files (WAV, ALAC, FLAC, AIFF, MP3, etc), and also youtube stuff and whatever you can think of, including pandora, spotify etc (some streamers also offer these services, but not all), and this software usually comes with a smartphone app for remote control purposes.

4. DAC: although most streamers already have DACs in them, some would benefit from an upgraded one IF they have a digital out (like the Pioneer does and would). Also, if you go for the laptop route, a DAC is mandatory. For your setup I wouldn't go any lower then the Micromega Mydac, other great options being the Arcam iRdac, Naim Dac V1 or Chord Hugo. IMPORTANT: Some people are running a DAC STRAIGHT out Synology NAS, since the Synologys (and most NAS manufacturers) have their own streaming software - for Audio, Video and internet radio. Not all dacs are compatible, but the mainstream ones usually are. So if you don't need a laptop for, say, ripping purposes, you could just skip it and plug a DAC straight into the NAS. It's less elegant, but gets the job done.

Basically, your new setup should look like this: NAS --> Router --> Streamer (--> DAC) --> Amp --> etc., and use a pc/laptop to rip CD's or download HD (and nonHD)-tracks onto the NAS.

Or, if you use Vortexbox kind of stuff, i think you can eliminate NAS and Router and Streamer out of the equation and go Vortexbox (or other, not familiar with these, just what I read over the internets) --> DAC --> Amp --> etc. But with this I don't know about Pandora, Spotify, youtube, downloads and other stuff - might not be possible. I would go for the first setup, since i like the versatility a laptop brings.

So. I know it's a lot to take in, and a good dealer should help clear things out in a face to face conversation. Don't get disheartened, in reality it's simpler then it seems. Also, any other forum member please feel free to chime in and correct any wrong stuff I might've said, since my knowledge is far from complete, so mistakes might've been made.

Try to audition the stuff before deciding btw

Hope this helped.

goodluck

 

[Covenanter]

To return to the OP, although I agree you need to sort your sources out, listen to the Kef R series.

Chris

 

[davedotco]

Mmmmmmm, interesting.

Given the probable limits on the source quality, I wonder if a slightly different approach might be the way forward.

Rather than buying speakers that will, in the modern trend, be somewhat analytical and revealing, why not try speakers that may be less revealing but make up for that by bringing other qualities to the table.

I'm thinking of some simple single driver designs, perhaps some horns, in fact any speaker that majors on factors other than the usual modern requirement for detail resolution.

For example, how about a pair of Klipsch Heresy III, should be well within budget if you look around, or simple full range systems using, say, Fostex drive units as produced by Wilmslow Audio.

Very different and exciting options, I looked into this sort of thing a while back for my now almost exclusively Spotify based listening requirements. I ended up going down a different route but I found some of these options far more to my taste than the usual mainstream offerings.

 

[krish123]

Thanks for th informative replies all.

I think i should go down the NAS drive and a streamer. I dont want to use my laptop as well il be using my laptop alot so want to seperate laptop away from playing my music from.

Im interested in what you guys say about ripping files and general audio file quality. Historically i have always downloads with the best possible quality i can 320Kps or below on many occasions but can i get better quality by ripping? or by converting them into lossless format? i have never done this before and wouldnt know how to go about it.

In terms of the streamer how do they compare to CD players as im looking to achieve this sort of quality. I do like some control over my music library i.e i like playlists and have the music generally sorted so would want to be able to have this ability.

I have a DAC already a bushmaster MK2 for a bedroom setup and this is good iuse this with a apple airport express and then use my iphone/ipod to play music off.

I would rather have all my music in one place and in the best quality file format so i would want to do this stored in the NAS drive i think.

 

[CnoEvil]

- I like you, don't want a laptop to be part of my hifi system.

- IMO. Always rip in Red Book as space is cheap (and I think it's better).

- IME. Streamers (the Linn ones anyway), sound much better than an equivalently priced CDP, which is why Linn stopped making them. The Sneaky sounds like a fairly hi-end CDP. I think they sound better as 1] They are generally reading from a perfect rip. 2] They are not having to read a CD in real time. 3] There are no motors/moving parts to interfere with the sound.

 

[Jota180]

I ripped all my CD's to FLAC. I've now got 2000 (roughly) CD's at my finger tips that I can browse on an app from the couch. I can random play the whole collection or make huge playlists or play single tracks, whole albums. No more trying to rake through a vast physical collection of CD's for something to listen to. It also cleans up the listening room as all my CD's are now tucked away in a cupboard.

I've had CD players since the 1980's, you couldn't pay me to go back to a CD player!

Jitter is much lower in streamers, there's no moving parts afterall and there'd be no more problems with scratched CD's. You could set it up to stream to other rooms too, no problems. I think an ethernet cable is good up to around 100 metres so you should have plenty to spare.

 

[krish123]

I ripped all my CD's to FLAC. I've now got 2000 (roughly) CD's at my finger tips that I can browse on an app from the couch. I can random play the whole collection or make huge playlists or play single tracks, whole albums. No more trying to rake through a vast physical collection of CD's for something to listen to. It also cleans up the listening room as all my CD's are now tucked away in a cupboard.

I've had CD players since the 1980's, you couldn't pay me to go back to a CD player!

Jitter is much lower in streamers, there's no moving parts afterall and there'd be no more problems with scratched CD's. You could set it up to stream to other rooms too, no problems. I think an ethernet cable is good up to around 100 metres so you should have plenty to spare.

This is actually what im trying to achieve no CD's one storage location and a sleek interface to play all my music.

Understood about the quality of streamers, my only issue with this is the internet connection. Can i setup a secondary router and connect the streamer up to this?

As i said my listening room is in my converted garage outside of my house.

As for which streamers i had a quick look at marantz Na8005 very nice looking has anyone heard of this player?

Cambridge audio stream magic 6 is another option but how good really is this device as i look for quality in sound the most.

Other options are the Naim streamers which i know are very good but i find them very ugly.

As for the linn sneaky Ds is this a pretty old model? or have they updated this i think i saw a review from 2009?

Any other streamers to add into the mix? budget would be around £1000 but i can go second hand here.

 

[CnoEvil]

Mmmmmmm, interesting.

Given the probable limits on the source quality, I wonder if a slightly different approach might be the way forward.

Rather than buying speakers that will, in the modern trend, be somewhat analytical and revealing, why not try speakers that may be less revealing but make up for that by bringing other qualities to the table.

I'm thinking of some simple single driver designs, perhaps some horns, in fact any speaker that majors on factors other than the usual modern requirement for detail resolution.

For example, how about a pair of Klipsch Heresy III, should be well within budget if you look around, or simple full range systems using, say, Fostex drive units as produced by Wilmslow Audio.

I don't often disagree with you, but I'm not sure that trying to mask the crappyness of the source is the way forward....and it is still quite possible to get modern speakers that are not analytical (eg. SF Toy Towers).