Need help choosing my next integrated amplifier

[Hondoe1950]

I currently have a Cambridge CXA81 amp and a Wiim Pro Plus streamer and new Revel M126Be speakers

I love my system but have been told that the amp is under powered for those speakers

This Christmas I plan to upgrade the amp. I would prefer one with Bluetooth capability, toslink and coaxial inputs, at least 120 watts per channel, and most importantly a noticeably improved sound. My budget is between $2,500 and $5,000.

I've been doing a lot of research and I'm totally confused. If anyone can help me I would really appreciate it.

I mostly listen to classic rock and modern music with beautiful voices, at medium to low listening volume.

Thank you for any help you can give me.

 

[twinkletoes]

Use to own the revel m106 and they paired very well with Naim, with revel despite there paper specs dont really need alot of wattage they can be pretty much powered with a good 50watt amp. So wouldn't go out of your way to spend more on power because you feel it leads to, well more! What they like is current reserve to control there mid bass driver. BIG V8 capacitors under the hood.

Even my 23 watt sugden drove them well and loud but did struggle when things really got going. But ive never heard the bass sound so good with these speakers and that amp combo really took me a back.

Brands id start with are

Naim, musical fidelity perhaps Hegal and maybe rotel along with Yamaha.

hope that helps

 

[Jasonovich]

I currently have a Cambridge CXA81 amp and a Wiim Pro Plus streamer and new Revel M126Be speakers

I love my system but have been told that the amp is under powered for those speakers

This Christmas I plan to upgrade the amp. I would prefer one with Bluetooth capability, toslink and coaxial inputs, at least 120 watts per channel, and most importantly a noticeably improved sound. My budget is between $2,500 and $5,000.

I've been doing a lot of research and I'm totally confused. If anyone can help me I would really appreciate it.

I mostly listen to classic rock and modern music with beautiful voices, at medium to low listening volume.

Thank you for any help you can give me.

Firstly, welcome to the forum Hondoe.

I need to ask; if you love the sound of your system, why the need to change your amp?

Cambridge CXA81 is 80watts powered amp, it should be more than adequate, not unless those bookshelf sized Revels with the mighty fine Beryllium Dome Tweeters are struggling to fill the space of the room, due to their limiting size? How big is your room? You may wish to consider floor standing speaker boxes or an additional subwoofer to take care of the low frequencies. I think the latter option would be my personal preference.

Also, I noticed from the specs, they're not designed to go very low, maybe a subwoofer is all you need to enhance those low frequencies. A new amp will change the tonal characteristics but the low frequencies will still be the limiting factor, that won't change with the new amp.



The Cambridge doesn't have 120 watts per channel but it is already laden with the features that you need, I do hear you!

I would suggests either changing the speakers or adding a subwoofer and if you still feel the need to change your amp, I would suggest looking at the options as suggested below.

I'm a big fan of Atoll and I own one and I'm mighty impress with it's sonic signature and tonality. Mine I believe is 120 watts with dual copper toroid power supply, it goes mighty loud but if you're interested in the bigger siblings, check the link below. Also to give balance, there's Emotiva and Hegel, they also make mighty fine amps but I'm sure my forum colleagues will suggest some of the other alternatives for you to consider.

Atoll Electronique – Produits haute-fidélité en France

Découvrez nos derniers produits, nos partenariats, nos récompenses, nos catalogues, et nos revendeurs qui vous aiderons à démarrer votre expérience ATOLL.

www.atoll-electronique.com

Hegel Music Systems - High-end audio electronics designed in Norway

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www.hegel.com

Home Audio Systems, Speakers & Accessories

Welcome to Emotiva Audio Corporation. Home Audio Systems, Speakers & Accessories and more. We use science to evoke the true emotion behind every note.

emotiva.com

 

[manicm]

I love my system but have been told that the amp is under powered for those speakers

What do your ears tell you? You haven't described your experience/issues with your system.

 

[Hondoe1950]

First of all, I’d like to thank everyone for your help. And you’re right, on most songs I am completely delighted with my Soundsystem but once in a while, I wonder if there could be a bigger soundstage.

I also am using an optical cable and I’ve been told that coaxial is better, but I don’t want to break my bank on cables so I’m wondering if you have recommendation about that. Should I stick to my optical cable or get a coaxial and if so, what kind?

 

[twinkletoes]

First of all, I’d like to thank everyone for your help. And you’re right, on most songs I am completely delighted with my Soundsystem but once in a while, I wonder if there could be a bigger soundstage.

I also am using an optical cable and I’ve been told that coaxial is better, but I don’t want to break my bank on cables so I’m wondering if you have recommendation about that. Should I stick to my optical cable or get a coaxial and if so, what kind?

I use a 7quid toslink cable it’s fine and isn’t bothered by anything in the rack. Just stick with what you have on all fronts.

 

[manicm]

I am completely delighted with my Soundsystem but once in a while, I wonder if there could be a bigger soundstage.

Ta da! If you want a bigger soundstage get another streamer. Brutal but true. The Wiim Pro Plus is great value for money, but it does have a rather flat, within speakers soundstage.

I would consider upgrading to the Cambridge MXN10, or wait a while for the new Bluesound Node later this month. Yes, they're twice the price, but they're going to have greater scale. The Bluesound also has HDMI for TV duty.

And if you're going to connect digitally, it's generally wiser to use coaxial. But with the MXN10 and Node, I'd try out their internal DACs/analogue outputs first.

 

[Jasonovich]

Your Cambridge I believe has a DAC input, why not run a good quality coax cable from WiiM Plus Pro to Cambridge's DAC input.
I suspect Cambridge's built in DAC will be better than the WiiM's.
Cambridge make good inexpensive Coax cables, you don't have to go to town.
My personal favourite are the ones made by Mogami. Depending the length of the cable, it's about £30 a meter.

 

[Hondoe1950]

Ta da! If you want a bigger soundstage get another streamer. Brutal but true. The Wiim Pro Plus is great value for money, but it does have a rather flat, within speakers soundstage.

I would consider upgrading to the Cambridge MXN10, or wait a while for the new Bluesound Node later this month. Yes, they're twice the price, but they're going to have greater scale. The Bluesound also has HDMI for TV duty.

And if you're going to connect digitally, it's generally wiser to use coaxial. But with the MXN10 and Node, I'd try out their internal DACs/analogue outputs first.

I get all of my music streamed from Amazon Music Unlimited, which sadly Cambridge doesn’t support. Does Bluesound Node support AMU in full resolution via their app?

 

[Hondoe1950]

Your Cambridge I believe has a DAC input, why not run a good quality coax cable from WiiM Plus Pro to Cambridge's DAC input.
I suspect Cambridge's built in DAC will be better than the WiiM's.
Cambridge make good inexpensive Coax cables, you don't have to go to town.
My personal favourite are the ones made by Mogami. Depending the length of the cable, it's about £30 a meter.

Just ordered a coax cable, AudioQuest Cinnamon.

 

[Hondoe1950]

I think all of you are incredible and I’m deeply grateful for your support.

 

[Covenanter]

There is no substitute for auditioning! People will tell you all type of things but it is all subjective. Get out there and listen. If it sounds good to you then it is good.

 

[Jasonovich]

Just ordered a coax cable, AudioQuest Cinnamon.

Excellent choice 👍😊

 

[Hondoe1950]

I get all of my music streamed from Amazon Music Unlimited, which sadly Cambridge doesn’t support. Does Bluesound Node support AMU in full resolution via their app?

Can I please ask for one other clarification? since I am not using my WiiM Pro Plus’s internal DAC, because I’m using a toslink cable from it to my amp, would a better streamer really make much of a difference?

 

[Hifiman]

Can I please ask for one other clarification? since I am not using my WiiM Pro Plus’s internal DAC, because I’m using a toslink cable from it to my amp, would a better streamer really make much of a difference?

I believe most people (including me) would say a more expensive streamer would make no difference to your sound if you are simply using it as a transport. Just to weigh into the TOSlink vs coax debate, again some would argue that TOSlink would theoretically transmit least noise.

Like others here, I too find it difficult to believe your sound impression is because your amp is underpowered. This might be difficult to hear, but could your speakers themselves be at least some of the reason?

 

[Jasonovich]

Can I please ask for one other clarification? since I am not using my WiiM Pro Plus’s internal DAC, because I’m using a toslink cable from it to my amp, would a better streamer really make much of a difference?

I have the WiiM Pro Plus and I also have Matrix Mini i-4, the latter is much better sounding, particularly when I'm using my JF digital transport and NAS server to play my local DSD (sampling 2.8 million to 22 million*) stored music.
On the streamer side the Matrix sounds better than WiiM but not by £350 margin that I paid extra for the Mini I-4.
Brands like the Cambridge EVO, Bluesound Node, Eversolo DMP A6 or DMP A8, Matrix, Auralic ALTAIR G1.1 Digital Audio Streamer will sound better, but you would have to pay much more. Changing your amp or speakers will bring more significant changes but not always the desired outcome.

There is no substitute for auditioning! People will tell you all type of things but it is all subjective. Get out there and listen. If it sounds good to you then it is good.

Covenanter is absolutely correct, if you can audition the components (amp, speakers and streamer together), this would be preferable.
Nearly all my purchases have come from recommendations on various HiFi sites, HiFi blogs/forums and YouTube videos but there is a caveat, lot of it is paid sponsorship, so take it with a pinch of salt. Even What Hi*Fi they seem to have a hang up on brand loyalty, certain products are guaranteed five stars, when there are better products out there that are not getting the deserved coverage.

In a weird way, I'm happy with my WiiM Pro Plus because I'm not expecting too much from it but in my bedroom setup the Matrix is the pivotal source, including Marantz SACD 8500, so I'm expecting sterling performance from them, and they deliver.


Good luck







*i.e. DSD64 to DSD512;-I hear the difference between DSD512 v DSD64 (SACD), small difference between DSD512 v DSD128) but hardly any difference between DSD512 v DSD256

 

[Hondoe1950]

I am really grateful to have discovered this forum, I really appreciate the time all of you have taken to respond to my queries. I understand that there is some disagreement about whether a streamer would perform better than another if they're only used for transmission and not for their DAC.

I do want to respond to your query by saying that the sound produced by my system is plenty loud, my issue was that I was told by others that at low volumes, a more powerful amp would perform better.

Thank you all again.

 

[Rodolfo]

I get all of my music streamed from Amazon Music Unlimited, which sadly Cambridge doesn’t support. Does Bluesound Node support AMU in full resolution via their app?

You don't need it, but the MXN10 should support Amazon Music Unlimited. I haven't found anything (Bluetooth) through which I can't stream AMU, and the AM app runs on most any OS.

 

[Hondoe1950]

Here’s a very basic question: How do I create a new post? I can’t figure it out.

 

[Jasonovich]

If you're using mobile or PC go to the drop menu, top left, select new posts, on the top right, you'll see, Post a thread. 😊

 

[Fandango Andy]

First of all, I’d like to thank everyone for your help. And you’re right, on most songs I am completely delighted with my Soundsystem but once in a while, I wonder if there could be a bigger soundstage.

I also am using an optical cable and I’ve been told that coaxial is better, but I don’t want to break my bank on cables so I’m wondering if you have recommendation about that. Should I stick to my optical cable or get a coaxial and if so, what kind?

As others have said your amp is well within the recommended power rating for the speakers.

If you want a better soundstage, changing your speaker will probably have more impact than your amp. Before you do that, have you optimised their positioning? are they on good stands, a reasonable distance from the walls? Are they the the correct distance apart and from the listening position. Once you are satisfied with all that, have a play with the toe-in. if you haven't already done this, you will be amazed at how much difference it makes.

Optical is fine for music. if you are using multi channel, HDMI is better but for music even high res, the optical will be fine.

Finally, if you are going to buy new equipment, always audition first. just because something has good reviews or is recommended, doesn't mean it will be to your taste.

 

[gasolin]

It's not about power it's about sound quality

The speakers costs like 3-4 times the price of the amp

Mabye a power amp like a NAD C 298 or a Rotel RB-1582 MKII

 

[paul puma]

Hegel is one of the brands known for playing good at low volumes - that s what I found out on the internet before I bought one second hand. I think it is true. I have the Hegel H80, which is 75 watts and it sounds great.
About interlinks - I recently upgraded my coax digital cable, and that made a little difference in soundstage too. The old cable was real budget, I bought an Audioquest forest cable second hand.
Buying second hand (interlinks, cables) is something you could try without too much cost. Maybe for your coax instead of optical.
It looks like you have a nice hifi set already. Like someone said, your speakers are quite a lot more expensive than your amplifier, and again the amp is quite a bit more expensive than the streamer. Though the reviews of all of your equipment are good, it might be a good idea to balance things a bit more out towards the value of the speakers (if you plan to keep them and if you are happy with them). In this regard the first to upgrade could be the streamer. The reviews about the soundstage of the wiim is good though, but it is on the cool side and it should better not be used over wifi (and not the inside dac but an other dac, like you already do).
Make sure you stream at least 16 bit/44 khz (cd quality), not mp3 (for soundstage). And bluetooth might be a limiting factor in audioquality. worth a google for you i think.

 

[Hondoe1950]

I am so grateful to you for the time you took to write to me. I've been diving deeply into the whole topic and really wonder if the Wiim Plus Pro is only acting as a transmitter of the digital codes from the WiFi source to the amp, bypassing all processing via its DAC, can it be any worse than any other streamer?

I'm asking because the quality of the music I'm playing is breathtaking now. I'm using a Coax cable between the Wiim and my amp, and a high quality USB power cord to the Wiim.

I always stream using the highest resolution that I can, via Amazon Unlimited, Tidal, Qobuz, and Spotify, and have found something really curious: when a song is remixed and presented with higher resolution, it usually sounds more spacious, with a better sound stage, but sometimes doesn't sound as good as the original recording, due to its remixing.

So will you or anyone else reading this please help me to understand why any "better" streamer would exceed the Wiim Pro Plus if the only job the latter is doing is to transmit the digital stream to the amp. Thanks to all of you. What a great forum.

 

[Hondoe1950]

By the way, I don't use Bluetooth at all for my streaming, as it's lower resolution.