Need help choosing my next integrated amplifier

[Fandango Andy]

when a song is remixed and presented with higher resolution, it usually sounds more spacious, with a better sound stage, but sometimes doesn't sound as good as the original recording, due to its remixing.

Remixed isn't always better. I have some records on vinyl, and CD. when I compare them to high res streaming sometimes the stream sounds better, sometimes the CD, sometimes the vinyl.

The problem with a lot of remixes, is who they are intended for. If you are on this forum, you are the freak, the outsider, the geek. Most people don't own a hifi, they listen to music on their phone, or a bluetooth speaker that cost less than your speaker cables. Some people have higher quality bluetooth speakers, but they are still bluetooth! Others only listen in their car.

Back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's hifi's were more common. then in the 80's Boomboxes/gettoblasters came along as did Walkmens. As the way people listened to music changed, the way it was mixed changed.

The biggest difference between an old mix and a modern mixes or remixes of an old recording is dynamic range, the difference between the loudest and quietest parts of a recording. A lot of modern mixes suppress dynamic range in favour of volume. This may sound better on your airpod, but not on a pair of hifi speakers.

The biggest problem with Amazon, where they used to have old mixes, they are phasing them out in favour of new ones.

 

[paul puma]

It s about internal clock, reduce jitter and electrical noise, and good stable power supply.
This is also for a DAC, and here the filtering is important.
Digital signals are in fact transported in an analogue way and it is important how good this is done.
the link below talks a bit about that:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzJEvGWWtqg&list=PLMbsmejHnP8FqbhDskGnwKW7dPQjRWIVm
I also have a link of a review from your streamer from this channel, very interesting with some measurements also.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmw5GRJDRqA
The reviews of your streamer and amplifier are generally very good/good. The wii does a very good job for the money (which means you should spend at least a 1000 to make a audible step forward) .
I found a review with measurements of the amplifier on ASR, their conclusion mainly is that the DAC is average..... Before that I thought, you have a great hifi set up, what s there to upgrade. It might be an idea to audition a seperate DAC (instead of the internal Cambridge DAC). Or indeed another amp with internal dac.
With your budget and those reviews in mind, the first two things to consider are the DAC and the streamer if you really want to upgrade. (though you say it sounds good....) If separates, both above the 1000 dollar/euro .
This way you get the source right.

What helped me is to look in reviews of hifi and read what details they hear in music. for example in this list on what hifi: https://www.whathifi.com/features/10-best-songs-to-test-your-speakers
and for example, one part describes to test bass of you system:
"
To test bass control

Massive show-off Thundercat (Stephen Bruner) delivered one of the more critically acclaimed albums of 2017 with Drunk. And on Uh Uh (a brief but exhausting exploration of the six-string electric bass guitar), he plays with such frantic virtuosity your speakers have no hiding place.
Bass extension, speed, tonal variation, and attack and decay all get the sort of examination that speaker engineers dread. What’s required here is well defined, well described variations in note tonality and intensity. In the right hands it’s a remarkably athletic piece of playing, but in less capable care it’s just a low-frequency mess of overlapping information."

There are a lot more tests and reviews with song descriptions. This way you can discover where your set shines and where not. And find out what is there to upgrade. Also try to match your equipment.
There is lean-sounding equipment and "warm"sounding equipment and so on. Matching a lean sounding amp with lean sounding speakers for example may result in a too analytical sound which looses on musicality, for example. Lots to discover...

Cambridge CXA81 MKII Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Cambridge CXA81 MKII integrated stereo amplifier with digital inputs (USB, Toslink, Coax) and Bluetooth. It was kindly drop shipped by a member and costs US $1,199. There are no visible changes from the original CXA81 I tested. I *think* the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[gasolin]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNX3gclXq20

 

[Jasonovich]

So will you or anyone else reading this please help me to understand why any "better" streamer would exceed the Wiim Pro Plus if the only job the latter is doing is to transmit the digital stream to the amp. Thanks to all of you. What a great forum.

Digital Stream is converted into analogue, there are a lot of things at play, excuse the pun! Better designed circuitry will but not always the case, ensure less errata. Also mentioned above ( @paul puma ), a more expensive unit would most likely have a better internal clock, reduced jitter and electrical noise, and good stable power supply (I know, I know this is going set some people off, but it's just 01100110101101! ) so if you were to upgrade to a better streamer you expect the components to reflect the additional costs and the hypothesis, it will sound better because no corners were cut to reduce the costs.

What the WiiM Pro Plus (and I have one of those!) has demonstrated that other manufacturers are charging us way over the top for their product and kudos to WiiM for putting out products that punch way above their weight.

I have the WiiM Pro Plus and I have the Matrix i-4 Mini, if I were to make a direct comparison (unfortunately not able to do blind because both setups are in different rooms, you know plug and unplug again, drive the missus mad, ah man, trust your ears and be honest about what you're hearing. So if you're going to say it's placebo, that's fine I get it ) but to my ears the Matrix sounds better, the sound stage is wider and vocals sound more natural, Again, the Matrix is >£500 and the Pro Plus is about £120 or less.
If you're happy with the sound you're getting from the WiiM there's no compulsion to upgrade, not unless you want to

 

[good_enough]

I am so grateful to you for the time you took to write to me. I've been diving deeply into the whole topic and really wonder if the Wiim Plus Pro is only acting as a transmitter of the digital codes from the WiFi source to the amp, bypassing all processing via its DAC, can it be any worse than any other streamer?

I'm asking because the quality of the music I'm playing is breathtaking now. I'm using a Coax cable between the Wiim and my amp, and a high quality USB power cord to the Wiim.

I always stream using the highest resolution that I can, via Amazon Unlimited, Tidal, Qobuz, and Spotify, and have found something really curious: when a song is remixed and presented with higher resolution, it usually sounds more spacious, with a better sound stage, but sometimes doesn't sound as good as the original recording, due to its remixing.

So will you or anyone else reading this please help me to understand why any "better" streamer would exceed the Wiim Pro Plus if the only job the latter is doing is to transmit the digital stream to the amp. Thanks to all of you. What a great forum.

You have put you finger on it - if the WiiM is passing data to the Amp, then you are using the Amp's own DAC at the moment. Your choices are to try against the WiiM's own audio output by plugging its RCA outputs into an AUX pair on your amp, or to venture into other DAC boxes, streamers (bringing their DACs with them), or amps.

The former is a relatively cost-free exercise if you already have some phono cables lying around; the latter would definitely involve auditioning as widely as possible as it's an expensive move to get wrong.

 

[A-Line]

I currently have a Cambridge CXA81 amp and a Wiim Pro Plus streamer and new Revel M126Be speakers

I love my system but have been told that the amp is under powered for those speakers

This Christmas I plan to upgrade the amp. I would prefer one with Bluetooth capability, toslink and coaxial inputs, at least 120 watts per channel, and most importantly a noticeably improved sound. My budget is between $2,500 and $5,000.

I've been doing a lot of research and I'm totally confused. If anyone can help me I would really appreciate it.

I mostly listen to classic rock and modern music with beautiful voices, at medium to low listening volume.

Thank you for any help you can give me.

Everyone on this forum hears differently than you. You're the only one that can make the best choice that's right for you.

Why not consult with some local audio shops and find out what's possible with your budget of $2500-$5000?

 

[Hondoe1950]

First, I'd like to thank all of you deeply for your wonderful responses and advice. What a great group of people you are.

I decided to upgrade my amp to the Cambridge Audio Edge A, which should make a big difference in the sound.

At some point, I might also update the DAC, and someone also recommended that with my Revel M126Be speakers, I might benefit from getting a subwoofer.

Thanks again for your ongoing wisdom and help.

 

[paul puma]

That seems to be a good upgrade (looking at review of that amp). Maybe you let us know how that sounds when you have it?

 

[Hondoe1950]

Digital Stream is converted into analogue, there are a lot of things at play, excuse the pun! Better designed circuitry will but not always the case, ensure less errata. Also mentioned above ( @paul puma ), a more expensive unit would most likely have a better internal clock, reduced jitter and electrical noise, and good stable power supply (I know, I know this is going set some people off, but it's just 01100110101101! ) so if you were to upgrade to a better streamer you expect the components to reflect the additional costs and the hypothesis, it will sound better because no corners were cut to reduce the costs.

What the WiiM Pro Plus (and I have one of those!) has demonstrated that other manufacturers are charging us way over the top for their product and kudos to WiiM for putting out products that punch way above their weight.

I have the WiiM Pro Plus and I have the Matrix i-4 Mini, if I were to make a direct comparison (unfortunately not able to do blind because both setups are in different rooms, you know plug and unplug again, drive the missus mad, ah man, trust your ears and be honest about what you're hearing. So if you're going to say it's placebo, that's fine I get it ) but to my ears the Matrix sounds better, the sound stage is wider and vocals sound more natural, Again, the Matrix is >£500 and the Pro Plus is about £120 or less.
If you're happy with the sound you're getting from the WiiM there's no compulsion to upgrade, not unless you want to

I now know the truth of what you said about a better streamer. I decided to upgrade to the WiiM Ultra, and the difference is amazing! Maybe it’s partially because the Ultra uses WiFi6 instead of 5, but I’m sure that the rest of the circuitry is contributing too. I now feel completely content with the streaming device and won’t need to upgrade it. Thank you for all of your input.

 

[Hondoe1950]

By the way, I found a great deal on a minimally used Cambridge Audio Edge A amp, 40% off, and decided to get it. So now my amp wishes are fulfilled. 🙂

 

[Jasonovich]

I now know the truth of what you said about a better streamer. I decided to upgrade to the WiiM Ultra, and the difference is amazing! Maybe it’s partially because the Ultra uses WiFi6 instead of 5, but I’m sure that the rest of the circuitry is contributing too. I now feel completely content with the streaming device and won’t need to upgrade it. Thank you for all of your input.

You chose wisely 😁

 

[gasolin]

Cambridge Audio Edge A

for the money im shure you could have gotten something more powerfull from hegel

Why Edge a ?

 

[Jasonovich]

for the money im shure you could have gotten something more powerfull from hegel

Why Edge a ?

Cambridge make mighty fine amps but I heard from a number of people they don't scale very well. Not sure this is just a myth.
The top end is only marginally better than their basic model.
I think this is probably true with other brands too, where the feature set of the pricier models become the selling point.
The Hegel's are rated highly. Perhaps if the opportunity exists, these should be audition with the Edge.

 

[Hondoe1950]

I will let you know when I get the Edge. Reasons that I got it:

I love the sound of Cambridge Audio amps, because my CXA81 performs incredibly.

I got a great deal

The reviews are great

Hegel amps are quite expensive and don’t stream Amazon

And it has all of the connections that I need

 

[Hondoe1950]

I just installed the Edge A amp. It’s very interesting to compare it with my previous CXA81amp. On a few cuts there really wasn’t that much difference, but on most songs, what stands out greatly is the much increased spatial information. you really feel like you’re sitting in front of the artist. In addition, most songs have a much greater spaciousness, positioning, and the instruments and voices really are more separate, there’s a notably a better high-end, and an incredible purity. On music that is recorded with the highest bit rate, I can hear things with this amp that I could not hear with the previous app. There’s plenty of power, I found out that the amp should really be rated 140 W per channel because that’s what it actually has, and I’m very happy with my purchase.

 

[Fandango Andy]

I just installed the Edge A amp. It’s very interesting to compare it with my previous CXA81amp. On a few cuts there really wasn’t that much difference, but on most songs, what stands out greatly is the much increased spatial information. you really feel like you’re sitting in front of the artist. In addition, most songs have a much greater spaciousness, positioning, and the instruments and voices really are more separate, there’s a notably a better high-end, and an incredible purity. On music that is recorded with the highest bit rate, I can hear things with this amp that I could not hear with the previous app. There’s plenty of power, I found out that the amp should really be rated 140 W per channel because that’s what it actually has, and I’m very happy with my purchase.

Glad you found an amp you are happy with.

Don't get too hung up on power ratings. You might start thinking your amp is over-specced for the speakers then you find yourself in a vicious circle. The official figures rate your amp at 100W RMS into 8 Ohms, which is is more than enough for your speakers.

 

[paul puma]

thanks hondoe, interesting to hear about your experience with the old and new amp.
glad it works out for you.

 

[nopiano]

I will let you know when I get the Edge. Reasons that I got it:

I love the sound of Cambridge Audio amps, because my CXA81 performs incredibly.

I got a great deal

The reviews are great

Hegel amps are quite expensive and don’t stream Amazon

And it has all of the connections that I need

If only everyone here had such clear thinking! I reckon you’ve made a great choice and I’m delighted you’re enjoying the system.

 

[Jasonovich]

I just installed the Edge A amp. It’s very interesting to compare it with my previous CXA81amp. On a few cuts there really wasn’t that much difference, but on most songs, what stands out greatly is the much increased spatial information. you really feel like you’re sitting in front of the artist. In addition, most songs have a much greater spaciousness, positioning, and the instruments and voices really are more separate, there’s a notably a better high-end, and an incredible purity. On music that is recorded with the highest bit rate, I can hear things with this amp that I could not hear with the previous app. There’s plenty of power, I found out that the amp should really be rated 140 W per channel because that’s what it actually has, and I’m very happy with my purchase.

I can understand your choice, you already like the tonal signature from your Cambridge CXA81. It kind of makes sense you were looking for the same but better.

It's sort of synonymous to I like my neighbourhood but the rooms in my house are not large enough, so I mortgaged (not unless you can pay for it outright! ) a bigger house just down the road.

Yes, logical choice, well done

 

[ToppingSMSL]

Class D all the way imo. More efficient and measure better.

 

[gasolin]

Class D all the way imo. More efficient and measure better.

More distortion

 

[Hondoe1950]

As I listen more to the new amp, I’m struck by its excellence. It’s definitely several steps up from the original one in soundstage and articulation of each instrument, and exceptionally alive.

 

[Hondoe1950]

As I listen more to the new amp, I’m struck by its excellence. It’s definitely several steps up from the original one in soundstage and articulation of each instrument, and exceptionally alive.

When I purchased the amp, it had already been broken in for 30 hours, so I thought that it was completely broken in. Much to my surprise, in fact, it’s getting better and better. To the point where it’s becoming completely breathtaking.

 

[plastic penguin]

When I purchased the amp, it had already been broken in for 30 hours, so I thought that it was completely broken in. Much to my surprise, in fact, it’s getting better and better. To the point where it’s becoming completely breathtaking.

Congrats on the amp. I heard it, not in a demo room, but a showroom, and it sounded superb. As some of the others have said, it makes perfect sense as you like the Cambridge signature so much.

And it will continue to sound better as your ears acclimatise to the presentation.

 

[Gray]

And it will continue to sound better as your ears acclimatise to the presentation.

Definitely - that's what's happening.
A case of brain gradually learning to appreciate the new things it's getting....rather than any electronics 'breaking in'.