Need a little bit more bass. Short and long term.

[Thompsonuxb]

I'll bet it blows the Cyrus out the water on every level - make sure you set it up though.

Go into settings set the main speaker levels to max and speakers to large. Turn off unused channels set LFE to main.

Those amps are digitally attenuated I own the rx-a1020 don't worry you have to turn them up abit from -40db on the volume dial.

If you want you can try the bi-amp feature.
The other tip - if you have a digital out on your player use it or use your blu-ray, try the source direct button too.

This thread just became exciting. I look forward to the outcome...lol

Let us know your findings.

 

[steve_1979]

Try it in the 'pure direct' mode and without the subwoofer.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Try it in the 'pure direct' mode and without the subwoofer.

Thanks for the correction 'pure direct' - turns of all unwanted processing. don't rate it myself but some swear by it

Prefer turning off the DSP and running the signal has PCM.

 

[pyrrhon]

I am about to get me a pair of Klipsch Heresy 3 to solve my problem. I use to have vintage large speakers and regret badly selling them for modern hifi gear. A decent 12' woofer speaker gets my feeling going.

 

[max337]

I'll bet it blows the Cyrus out the water on every level - make sure you set it up though.

Go into settings set the main speaker levels to max and speakers to large. Turn off unused channels set LFE to main.

Those amps are digitally attenuated I own the rx-a1020 don't worry you have to turn them up abit from -40db on the volume dial.

If you want you can try the bi-amp feature. The other tip - if you have a digital out on your player use it or use your blu-ray, try the source direct button too.

This thread just became exciting. I look forward to the outcome...lol

Let us know your findings.

You really think so? I'm not disagreeing but just going along with what I'd expect. I've not had the chance as yet, but am itching to get on this. If it turns out as you predict, then I shall buy a power amp for the CDQ and compare and I would expect Audiolab to win there. If not then I shall be shocked and selling the Cyrus and Power Amp.

Thanks for the suggestions...and the settings, very handy indeed.

Digital out on my CD player? I'm positive there is IIRC.

Typical of family, friends, work and such inconveniences getting in the way of my experimenting!

Shall report once I have something to report.

 

[max337]

Don't have regrets! I know what you mean. Hopefully the new purchase will give you what you are after or as in my case, much more. If only it wasn't for that pesky and small amount of bass.

Good luck!

 

[max337]

Try it in the 'pure direct' mode and without the subwoofer.

That will be interesting to hear!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Well???

 

[max337]

Well???

lol

Apologies for the lack of updates.

I was able to adjust listening and speaker position, leading to a nicer all round sound via the Cyrus, speakers NOT toed in. This also improved overall sound when I was 'on the go' around the house.

Connecting the speakers to the Yamaha AV did what I wanted and answered the question of whether the PMCs were capable of at least chucking out the bass that I was after. Not used to, but after, which is all I wanted. The bass improved a not insignificant amount but was not muddy. Still well controlled, surprisingly so from what I was expecting from a 'mere' AV amp.

I did however notice the mids and treble, that had really opened my eyes (and ears) after upgrading had suffered slightly. This I did expect. I am also wondering whether this was in fact that psychological phenomena of hearing simply what I was expecting. Whichever, I did notice a difference.

So, part of my puzzle is solved. The PMCs will give that bit more bass, although I had moved them back slightly, I did move them to their original position, just to see. In my opinion the Yamaha did improve the bass. I did use Direct Mode and I was impressed by this feature.

I am now left with investigating amp options, in an effort to get the best of both worlds, the touch of extra bass whilst keeping the rest that I had previously been unaware of in my old system! I have sourced an Audiolab 8000p to link with the CDQ and am hoping this will be the solution. It was a choice between power amping the Cyrus or Audiolab and had to jump one way. Maybe if a Cyrus power comes along I can have a good comparison.

Thanks for the help guys, but the journey is not quite over. I'm just hoping I don't 'discover' another option that might be what I am hoping for.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I agree with Steve's points. The stereo amp will have a 'better top end' - over time you'd find the av amp will have more timbre to the sound.

Don't leave it on too long or you may find the Cyrus bright when you put it back on.

I'll watch with interest how you how get on - not familiar with power amps, I'd suggest getting the most powerful integrated you can.

 

[Vladimir]

The added bass harmonics are mixing and masking the accented midrange and you are now hearing proper fullrange sound. What you heard from the Cyrus was lacking. This is how we knew you were going to hear less clarity with the Yamaha. It's simple psychoacoustics.

 

[steve_1979]

Connecting the speakers to the Yamaha AV did what I wanted and answered the question of whether the PMCs were capable of at least chucking out the bass that I was after. Not used to, but after, which is all I wanted. The bass improved a not insignificant amount but was not muddy. Still well controlled, surprisingly so from what I was expecting from a 'mere' AV amp.

Sounds like all they needed was a bit more power and oompf (excuse the technical term but you get my point ). A good amp with 100 watts or more will work wonders with your PMC's.

Regarding the lost detail in the mids an treble this is likely to be caused by one of two things.

1. The Yamaha AVR might not have great clarity (though I very much doubt this is the case).

2. Simply having more bass will usually have an effect on the way you perceive the mid-range and treble. I have a 2.1 system with a subwoofer and as I turn the bass up on the subwoofer the mid-range and treble start to seem a bit muddy and less clear even though the sound coming from the stereo speakers is in reality totally unchanged. This is a perfectly normal phenomenon and is what I suspect you're experiencing with your system.

EDIT - I'm happy to hear you're happy with the results of having more POWERRRR!!! (said in a silly Jeremy Clarkson voice).

 

[max337]

I agree with Steve's points. The stereo amp will have a 'better top end' - over time you'd find the av amp will have more timbre to the sound.

Don't leave it on too long or you may find the Cyrus bright when you put it back on.

I'll watch with interest how you how get on - not familiar with power amps, I'd suggest getting the most powerful integrated you can.

I'm kind of leaning towards the Audiolab CDQ with a power amp now, it's the first power amp I've ever had myself, I'm quite taken with it. It and the CDQ give off a slightly different sound (I won't go into all the lingo, it's not me) but I like it. Plus I believe for what I have paid so far I won't better it. A powerful integrated does appeal but at the moment I am quite content and am hoping that it is not all 'burned in' fully as yet and it may improve slightly, or not. I also want to stop this feeling of wanting to try new amps etc as I fear I may never stop. It is something for the future though!

Thanks for your advice in all this.

 

[max337]

Connecting the speakers to the Yamaha AV did what I wanted and answered the question of whether the PMCs were capable of at least chucking out the bass that I was after. Not used to, but after, which is all I wanted. The bass improved a not insignificant amount but was not muddy. Still well controlled, surprisingly so from what I was expecting from a 'mere' AV amp.

Sounds like all they needed was a bit more power and oompf (excuse the technical term but you get my point ). A good amp with 100 watts or more will work wonders with your PMC's.

Regarding the lost detail in the mids an treble this is likely to be caused by one of two things.

1. The Yamaha AVR might not have great clarity (though I very much doubt this is the case).

2. Simply having more bass will usually have an effect on the way you perceive the mid-range and treble. I have a 2.1 system with a subwoofer and as I turn the bass up on the subwoofer the mid-range and treble start to seem a bit muddy and less clear even though the sound coming from the stereo speakers is in reality totally unchanged. This is a perfectly normal phenomenon and is what I suspect you're experiencing with your system.

EDIT - I'm happy to hear you're happy with the results of having more POWERRRR!!! (said in a silly Jeremy Clarkson voice).

Haha, I take your points and agree. I thought (from reading lots) that more power would improve the sound. Don't ask me how that quite works but it seemed to be a common verdict and turned out to be true!

Regarding the bass 'interfering' with the rest of the ranges I agree that more bass will end up covering something else but I also do think that the Yamaha simply cannot match the Cyrus in this respect. That's not to say the Yamaha is not good at music, it is excellent really. I use to love the sound my Denon 1910 with KEF eggs made of SACD/DTS music, it was awesome I thought. The Yamaha though takes those tracks to another level, although they are now coming through DALI Zensor 1s and 3s and a sub, hehe.

I'm coming to grips with these audio phenomena and find them fascinating. As if I need another variable bouncing around when testing out hifi!

Cheers

 

[max337]

The added bass harmonics are mixing and masking the accented midrange and you are now hearing proper fullrange sound. What you heard from the Cyrus was lacking. This is how we knew you were going to hear less clarity with the Yamaha. It's simple psychoacoustics.

I *kind of* expected similar too, appreciate the help and advice. It's been fun.

I know it's mostly subjective but have read no end of reviews and opinions of the Cyrus (this model) having an excellent grip on bass etc etc. I suppose it's what you are used to. Musically also. I'm guessing it is my love of things like The Prodigy and Drum and Bass etc that got me used to possibly more than is the norm. I am trying to cure it, in an effort to hear the rest of my music as it was intended.

Maybe I should get a separate system just for that kind of music muhahaha.

 

[simonlewis]

It's all about that bass, no treble