Need a little bit more bass. Short and long term.

[max337]

Are the PMCs toed in towards the listening position? Also change your seating back and forward so you make sure you don't sit in a null, like Robin suggested.

I tried a small amount of toe in and it did alter the sound but not so much with the bass, from my ears anyway. I will repeat all this and pay more attention to it. Adjusting the seating has not been done but I'll also do this. I'm hopeful that this will give me what I want and that I won't have to enter the realm of speaker cables etc that do/do not make any difference anyway.

 

[davedotco]

A more powerful amplifier wouldn't go amiss.

Look for something around 100 watts.

That *may* be more long term. However, as I mentioned I am unsure of which route to take. Add a power amp to the Cyrus or add a power amp to the 8200CDQ? Adding to Cyrus will give a similar sound but improved or at least more powerful, whereas Audiolab may give a slightly different tone, which I have not sampled. Hence all the questions.

The sound and volume I get now is nothing to complain about, just a tad more bass. I would like to upgrade the amp in some way though, just maybe not immediately.

I wonder what you mean by a 'bit more bass'?

Do you need greater bass extension or are we talking about greater mid bass punch? Or extra warmth?

Before offering much in the way of suggestions it would be nice to know what you mean.

Sure, but I struggle with these kinds of descriptions personally. For example listening to Massive Attack, Risingson with it's bass guitar sounds leaner but still excellent and I can adjust to that as it feels a lot more accurate, what I am meant to hear I believe. Whereas with Angel, I really did enjoy the heavy bass notes of the beginning of the song. With my new system, it's lacking.

I am aware I may be asking the impossible and should just add new stands, copper cable and get used to it. Then in the near future hopefully, upgrade with a power amp or such.

A subwoofer can be used to extend the bass to deeper notes, it is not designed to boost bass response above about 60-70 hz.

I have no idea how much low (sub) bass there is in the music you play, since you already have a sub I would try it to see if it addresses your issues. If it works, then you can look into the best way to integrate it into your system.

Mid bass punch or kick is a function of the main speakers, you can try and adjust this by positioning or using heavy stands, better more powerful amplification may help by making the bass more solid. All a matter of degree.

In reality, the only comprehensive solution is to change the speakers, personally I like PMCs, maybe they are not quite for you.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

It's about presentation.

By what's been written the top end and mid range are spot on - a leaner more accurate bass is not to his liking.....

A little bloom never hurt anyone.

Saying that - placing the pmc's on hollow wooden boxes with a 'port' (instead of stands) could help in the presentation.

Why would anyone in their right mind do such a thing? Why add boom and resonance to the sound?

 

[Vladimir]

A little bloom never hurt anyone.

DDC goes in anaphylactic shock each time he hears boom.

 

[Vladimir]

I would have them NOT toed in and play them louder to get more bass out and not have the treble directly scream at me. Also putting them closer to walls adds to the bass. However, this really is not an ideal way of solving things.

If they are anything like the TB2S (pro version), those came with XB1P subs for studio use.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov01/articles/pmcmonotors.asp

 

[max337]

A more powerful amplifier wouldn't go amiss.

Look for something around 100 watts.

That *may* be more long term. However, as I mentioned I am unsure of which route to take. Add a power amp to the Cyrus or add a power amp to the 8200CDQ? Adding to Cyrus will give a similar sound but improved or at least more powerful, whereas Audiolab may give a slightly different tone, which I have not sampled. Hence all the questions.

The sound and volume I get now is nothing to complain about, just a tad more bass. I would like to upgrade the amp in some way though, just maybe not immediately.

I wonder what you mean by a 'bit more bass'?

Do you need greater bass extension or are we talking about greater mid bass punch? Or extra warmth?

Before offering much in the way of suggestions it would be nice to know what you mean.

Sure, but I struggle with these kinds of descriptions personally. For example listening to Massive Attack, Risingson with it's bass guitar sounds leaner but still excellent and I can adjust to that as it feels a lot more accurate, what I am meant to hear I believe. Whereas with Angel, I really did enjoy the heavy bass notes of the beginning of the song. With my new system, it's lacking.

I am aware I may be asking the impossible and should just add new stands, copper cable and get used to it. Then in the near future hopefully, upgrade with a power amp or such.

A subwoofer can be used to extend the bass to deeper notes, it is not designed to boost bass response above about 60-70 hz.

I have no idea how much low (sub) bass there is in the music you play, since you already have a sub I would try it to see if it addresses your issues. If it works, then you can look into the best way to integrate it into your system.

Mid bass punch or kick is a function of the main speakers, you can try and adjust this by positioning or using heavy stands, better more powerful amplification may help by making the bass more solid. All a matter of degree.

In reality, the only comprehensive solution is to change the speakers, personally I like PMCs, maybe they are not quite for you.

I am thinking that the sub addition would be the best option. I don't require bass extension overall but with certain music it is just what I am used to and enjoy. The other music I listen to only seems to miss what probably should not be there for accuracies sake so am more than happy to readjust myself because I do love the PMC speakers and as I have mentioned, what I have gained in the other ranges along with detail and clarity has been awesome.

Stands are a definite as soon as I can research or demo and I plan to adjust seating, speaker position and such over the weekend. Maybe these will do the trick. Thanks.

I don't plan on changing speakers in the foreseeable future, they really are cracking. Given the choice of more bass at the price of the detail etc, I would forget the whole idea and stick with what I have. If I can have both though.....

 

[chebby]

I'm all about the bass about the bass, no treble.

... all about that bass, 'bout that bass, no treble ...

From the horse's mouth.

 

[max337]

I would have them NOT toed in and play them louder to get more bass out and not have the treble directly scream at me. Also putting them closer to walls adds to the bass. However, this really is not an ideal way of solving things.

If they are anything like the TB2S (pro version), those came with XB1P subs for studio use.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov01/articles/pmcmonotors.asp

I did prefer the overall sound with them 'facing front'. I plan on moving them nearer as much as possible to the wall without upsetting the next door neighbours.

I have a DALI sub already. I am looking to see if it is possible to have an AV amp and stereo amp connected to the same sub at the same time so as not to be constantly switching leads because I would simply not bother if that were the case.

 

[Electro]

I'm all about the bass about the bass, no treble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyTTX6Wlf1Y

*dance4*

 

[max337]

I'm all about the bass about the bass, no treble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyTTX6Wlf1Y

*dance4*

Nice!

 

[Vladimir]

I'm all about the bass about the bass, no treble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyTTX6Wlf1Y

*dance4*

Awesome! and bassy!

 

[max337]

Would I be able to connect the AV amp to the DALI E9F via the LFE, as normal and then the stereo amp to the L/R Line Inputs on the sub?

As long as I don't have both amps on at the same time I can't see a problem. Doesn't mean there wouldn't be one though.

If not, that's that out of the equation. My old sub had HFE input too, not the DALI.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Wait!

You have an AV amp in the house?

Have you wired the pmc's to it. If not do so and compare the sound to the Cyrus.

Leave the speakers in place try biwired and single wired.

Don't forget to reconfigure the av amp for stereo.
See how you get on.

 

[Vladimir]

Wait!

You have an AV amp in the house?

Have you wired the pmc's to it. If not do so and compare the sound to the Cyrus.

Hallelujah!

 

[davedotco]

Would I be able to connect the AV amp to the DALI E9F via the LFE, as normal and then the stereo amp to the L/R Line Inputs on the sub?

As long as I don't have both amps on at the same time I can't see a problem. Doesn't mean there wouldn't be one though.

If not, that's that out of the equation. My old sub had HFE input too, not the DALI.

You would need to be able to select which input you want to use and, ideally use different settings. The only affordable sub that I know of that allows you to do that is the BK Gemini, their entry level model.

I assume you use the sub on movies, so I am going to try some lateral thinking.

Set the sub up so that the crossover is pretty low, ie the sub is doing little on music but still giving you the sub bass effects. Set it to the lowest level that works for you.

After a while, when you switch to music on the PMCs, the contrast will not be so obvious so hopefully you will not think you are missing anything on the music. Give it a try.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

??...

What's the hallelujah for?

He had w second point of reference with the speakers.

The av amp will most likely be 90wpc both channels driven that's x2 times that of the Cyrus.

If he hears the bass he is looking for he'll know tinkering is pointless - New amp is the way to go.

Wait!

You have an AV amp in the house?

Have you wired the pmc's to it. If not do so and compare the sound to the Cyrus.

Hallelujah!

 

[steve_1979]

I think utilising my subwoofer (DALIE9F) could be the answer as it requires nothing additional but am unsure if I can have the AV and Cyrus connected to it at the same time. I wouldn't have both amps on at the same time though!

Try connecting the PMC's strait to the AV receiver and using that as the amplifer to drive them instead of the Cyrus. It'll be an interesting experiment to see how much they improve with the extra power and headroom that the AVR has.

It'll also give you the option of using them both with and without the sub.

 

[Vladimir]

??...

What's the hallelujah for?

For the great idea.

 

[max337]

Wait!

You have an AV amp in the house?

Have you wired the pmc's to it. If not do so and compare the sound to the Cyrus.

Leave the speakers in place try biwired and single wired.

Don't forget to reconfigure the av amp for stereo. See how you get on.

Then I think I would lose what I have gained in the other departments. I will try that though, to see if the speakers are at least capable, as I suspect that they are, of at least reproducing the level of bass I mean, albeit with only certain types of music.

Good idea btw!

 

[max337]

I think utilising my subwoofer (DALIE9F) could be the answer as it requires nothing additional but am unsure if I can have the AV and Cyrus connected to it at the same time. I wouldn't have both amps on at the same time though!

Try connecting the PMC's strait to the AV receiver and using that as the amplifer to drive them instead of the Cyrus. It'll be an interesting experiment to see how much they improve with the extra power and headroom that the AVR has.

It'll also give you the option of using them both with and without the sub.

Excellent. Will do. I know other ranges will suffer but at least I shall have an answer regarding the bass.

Eureka!

 

[max337]

Would I be able to connect the AV amp to the DALI E9F via the LFE, as normal and then the stereo amp to the L/R Line Inputs on the sub?

As long as I don't have both amps on at the same time I can't see a problem. Doesn't mean there wouldn't be one though.

If not, that's that out of the equation. My old sub had HFE input too, not the DALI.

You would need to be able to select which input you want to use and, ideally use different settings. The only affordable sub that I know of that allows you to do that is the BK Gemini, their entry level model.

I assume you use the sub on movies, so I am going to try some lateral thinking.

Set the sub up so that the crossover is pretty low, ie the sub is doing little on music but still giving you the sub bass effects. Set it to the lowest level that works for you.

After a while, when you switch to music on the PMCs, the contrast will not be so obvious so hopefully you will not think you are missing anything on the music. Give it a try.

Great! I had not thought about that, basically a way of getting me used to less bass?

So it is safe to at least connect the DALI sub via L/R line inputs to the Cyrus, settings notwithstanding? Maybe a basic question but one I am not sure about. The AV amp being in the LFE input. I'm simply experimenting but I do think your idea has great merit as if I can get used to less of what I am used to in the bass dept, then I will be happy overall. Plus I will choose wisely for future components without thinking about that aspect.

I am around 95% happy with the new set up though. Hearing things I never knew were present in songs I've listened to for over 30 years. This in itself is worth the lack of anything bass related.

 

[steve_1979]

Excellent. Will do. I know other ranges will suffer but at least I shall have an answer regarding the bass.

Eureka!

Probably less than you think. Possibly not at all.

 

[Vladimir]

I predict there will be more bass but less clarity and we will go back to the Cyrus.

 

[max337]

I imagine it will, but shall see. It's a Yamaha A830, Aventage, so maybe sound won't suffer too much. I'd expect some difference or else the Cyrus is going!

 

[max337]

I predict there will be more bass but less clarity and we will go back to the Cyrus.

Me too, but at least I will be sure then the speakers can do that little bit of bass and will be happy at that. They are lovely imo you see. Keepers.