professorhat
Well-known member
Tomorrow's shock WHF news story:
Are Scones the new Hob Nobs?
Right to reply from JD follows the next day.
Are Scones the new Hob Nobs?
Right to reply from JD follows the next day.
Ravey Gravey Davy
Well-known member
Ravey Gravey Davy
Well-known member
Who said Linn were doing well with computer audio?
Any review I've seen have said that their interface is "awful".
Maybe HiFi co's should leave these things to the computer co's.
Any review I've seen have said that their interface is "awful".
Maybe HiFi co's should leave these things to the computer co's.
John Duncan
Well-known member
Eddie Pound:Any review I've seen have said that their interface is "awful"
Except on the Sneaky, where it just "isn't".
Except on the Sneaky, where it just "isn't".
John Duncan
Well-known member
professorhat:Are Scones the new Hob Nobs?
Like CD players and streaming audio, they can peacefully coexist. Though one is clearly better, certainly.
Like CD players and streaming audio, they can peacefully coexist. Though one is clearly better, certainly.
JohnDuncan:professorhat:Are Scones the new Hob Nobs? Like CD players and streaming audio, they can peacefully coexist. Though one is clearly better, certainly.
Depends on which CDP you use JD
Depends on which CDP you use JD
Almost 160 posts and getting on for 3500 views - clearly the decision to put the NaimUniti on the Sunday cooking show wasn't so daft, after all...
John Duncan
Well-known member
JoelSim:
JohnDuncan:professorhat:Are Scones the new Hob Nobs? Like CD players and streaming audio, they can peacefully coexist. Though one is clearly better, certainly.
Depends on which CDP you use JD
Indeed. I understand from another poster that a CD192 can just beat a couple of hundred quid's worth of DAC. Although it did need a leg up on the interconnect front...
JohnDuncan:professorhat:Are Scones the new Hob Nobs? Like CD players and streaming audio, they can peacefully coexist. Though one is clearly better, certainly.
Depends on which CDP you use JD
Indeed. I understand from another poster that a CD192 can just beat a couple of hundred quid's worth of DAC. Although it did need a leg up on the interconnect front...
John Duncan
Well-known member
Andrew Everard:Almost 160 posts and getting on for 3500 views - clearly the decision to put the NaimUniti on the Sunday cooking show wasn't so daft, after all...
Well since Naim's SEO precludes you from finding it on their own site, something had to.
Well since Naim's SEO precludes you from finding it on their own site, something had to.
JohnDuncan:
Indeed. I understand from another poster that a CD192 can just beat a couple of hundred quid's worth of DAC. Although it did need a leg up on the interconnect front...
I've just printed this and stuck to my wall
Indeed. I understand from another poster that a CD192 can just beat a couple of hundred quid's worth of DAC. Although it did need a leg up on the interconnect front...
I've just printed this and stuck to my wall
John Duncan
Well-known member
JoelSim:
JohnDuncan:
Indeed. I understand from another poster that a CD192 can just beat a couple of hundred quid's worth of DAC. Although it did need a leg up on the interconnect front...
I've just printed this and stuck to my wall
Touch‚. Fifteen-all.
JohnDuncan:
Indeed. I understand from another poster that a CD192 can just beat a couple of hundred quid's worth of DAC. Although it did need a leg up on the interconnect front...
I've just printed this and stuck to my wall
Touch‚. Fifteen-all.
manicm
Well-known member
Eddie Pound:
JD,
Linn review (by a non-rival PC magazine, so hopefully allowed).
And from that same review - Verdict: Impeccable audio quality and beautiful design but undermined by truly awful control software.
If you go to the Linn forums the control software is improving, but it remains a costly solution.
JD,
Linn review (by a non-rival PC magazine, so hopefully allowed).
And from that same review - Verdict: Impeccable audio quality and beautiful design but undermined by truly awful control software.
If you go to the Linn forums the control software is improving, but it remains a costly solution.
If the Linn products had an optical input - i.e. they were just normal DACs - you would get the same sound quality, but could use a vastly superior interface of your choice.
manicm
Well-known member
Eddie Pound:If the Linn products had an optical input - i.e. they were just normal DACs - you would get the same sound quality, but could use a vastly superior interface of your choice.
You've obviously nothing to say, the above is just totally meaningless - what interface would you use? They're players, think of them as replacing your WMPs and iTunes and dbPoweramps et al - it is the raison d'ˆtre for the DS, Linn have bypassed the PC completely for playback as they believe their hardware is superior - well at that price...
You've obviously nothing to say, the above is just totally meaningless - what interface would you use? They're players, think of them as replacing your WMPs and iTunes and dbPoweramps et al - it is the raison d'ˆtre for the DS, Linn have bypassed the PC completely for playback as they believe their hardware is superior - well at that price...
You need a computer anyway to do the ripping, etc; Linn recommend RipStation Micro, I believe. Therefore it is safe to assume that the DS purchaser already has a computer.
If the Linn DS players were just DACs then one could plug in a source of their choice:
[*]An AirPort Express £65 controlled by iTouch £165.[*]Sonos ZP90 with controller, £449.[*]Squeezebox Duet, £279.[*]etcI would agree that going via Ethernet is theoretically a better system for jitter reasons, etc, but the re-clocking circuitry in modern DACs is so could that these theoretical differences are not audible.
If the Linn DS players were just DACs then one could plug in a source of their choice:
[*]An AirPort Express £65 controlled by iTouch £165.[*]Sonos ZP90 with controller, £449.[*]Squeezebox Duet, £279.[*]etcI would agree that going via Ethernet is theoretically a better system for jitter reasons, etc, but the re-clocking circuitry in modern DACs is so could that these theoretical differences are not audible.
Eddie Pound:
You need a computer anyway to do the ripping, etc; Linn recommend RipStation Micro, I believe. Therefore it is safe to assume that the DS purchaser already has a computer.
If the Linn DS players were just DACs then one could plug in a source of their choice:
[*]An AirPort Express £65 controlled by iTouch £165.[*]Sonos ZP90 with controller, £449.[*]Squeezebox Duet, £279.[*]etc
I would agree that going via Ethernet is theoretically a better system for jitter reasons, etc, but the re-clocking circuitry in modern DACs is so could that these theoretical differences are not audible.
Tru dat
You need a computer anyway to do the ripping, etc; Linn recommend RipStation Micro, I believe. Therefore it is safe to assume that the DS purchaser already has a computer.
If the Linn DS players were just DACs then one could plug in a source of their choice:
[*]An AirPort Express £65 controlled by iTouch £165.[*]Sonos ZP90 with controller, £449.[*]Squeezebox Duet, £279.[*]etc
I would agree that going via Ethernet is theoretically a better system for jitter reasons, etc, but the re-clocking circuitry in modern DACs is so could that these theoretical differences are not audible.
Tru dat
JohnDuncan:Well since Naim's SEO precludes you from finding it on their own site, something had to.
Maybe the Naimees thought having it on the home page with a link through to the product would do the job
Maybe the Naimees thought having it on the home page with a link through to the product would do the job
matthewpiano
Well-known member
In answer to various posts in this thread I would say that, in my opinion:
1. Cambridge Audio make excellent kit which performs well above expectations for its price point, but what they are doing is not new. Other brands, particularly NAD, have been stretching the performance of entry level kit for years;
2. I agree to a certain extent with some of the observations made about hi-end gear. The law of diminishing returns sets in quite quickly these days and the performance gap between the best budget kit and some of the more expensive stuff isn't all that big in relative terms. However, I do think that those who purchase hi-end gear are well aware of that and are generally happy to pay out for small improvements;
3. There is room for all formats out there and no need for either physical formats or file-based listening to be declared as a winner. Likewise there are plenty of solutions available at all price points ranging from excellent entry level CD players (340C, 515BEE) and devices such as the excellent Squeezebox up to far more expensive options such as Leema CD players and units like the Uniti and Sneaky. The fact that, along the way there is kit as diverse and as good as the AVI ADM9.1s, and Naim Nait 5i & CD5i brings real quality much more within reach.
Variety is the spice, and all that. Now, to get back to the music...
1. Cambridge Audio make excellent kit which performs well above expectations for its price point, but what they are doing is not new. Other brands, particularly NAD, have been stretching the performance of entry level kit for years;
2. I agree to a certain extent with some of the observations made about hi-end gear. The law of diminishing returns sets in quite quickly these days and the performance gap between the best budget kit and some of the more expensive stuff isn't all that big in relative terms. However, I do think that those who purchase hi-end gear are well aware of that and are generally happy to pay out for small improvements;
3. There is room for all formats out there and no need for either physical formats or file-based listening to be declared as a winner. Likewise there are plenty of solutions available at all price points ranging from excellent entry level CD players (340C, 515BEE) and devices such as the excellent Squeezebox up to far more expensive options such as Leema CD players and units like the Uniti and Sneaky. The fact that, along the way there is kit as diverse and as good as the AVI ADM9.1s, and Naim Nait 5i & CD5i brings real quality much more within reach.
Variety is the spice, and all that. Now, to get back to the music...
idc
Well-known member
Ravey Gravey Davy:idc:
MENISCUS:And by the way I do not consider myself an "audiophile " I just enjoy quality music reproduction from a good system, and this is what I have..........
MENISCUS, that is a very good definition of a type 2 audiophile, who is interested in the kit and music reproduction, but is not obsessive, unlike type 1 audiophiles who can become obsessive and go over the top and be a bit snobbish. This forum tends to attract the type 2s and is all the more entertaining for it.
idc In order to stop it sounding like diabetes, can you give us the full top ten grades of audiophile
No, because there are only two types, but with overlaps. Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of sounds like models of Jaguar.
MENISCUS:And by the way I do not consider myself an "audiophile " I just enjoy quality music reproduction from a good system, and this is what I have..........
MENISCUS, that is a very good definition of a type 2 audiophile, who is interested in the kit and music reproduction, but is not obsessive, unlike type 1 audiophiles who can become obsessive and go over the top and be a bit snobbish. This forum tends to attract the type 2s and is all the more entertaining for it.
idc In order to stop it sounding like diabetes, can you give us the full top ten grades of audiophile
No, because there are only two types, but with overlaps. Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of sounds like models of Jaguar.
manicm
Well-known member
Eddie Pound:
You need a computer anyway to do the ripping, etc; Linn recommend RipStation Micro, I believe. Therefore it is safe to assume that the DS purchaser already has a computer.
If the Linn DS players were just DACs then one could plug in a source of their choice:
[*]An AirPort Express £65 controlled by iTouch £165.
[*]Sonos ZP90 with controller, £449.
[*]Squeezebox Duet, £279.
[*]etc
I would agree that going via Ethernet is theoretically a better system for jitter reasons, etc, but the re-clocking circuitry in modern DACs is so could that these theoretical differences are not audible.
You're both missing the point of DS completely - nobody's dumb - if Linn wanted to make a standalone DAC they can, what they did was make a player - like Sonos - with a good enough DAC built-in unlike the apparently so-so one's in Sonos or Squeezebox, and also make the most of music software in most formats - their boxes are much more than just DACs inside.
Yes you need a PC to rip but that's a moot point in any digital system, and in theory for Sonos or DS you can have your NAS pre-loaded with your rips - isn't that the point? To ultimately do away with the PC? After you've ripped your stuff you don't need your PC on at all with Sonos or DS.
And of-course Linn are saying theirs are the best software players. And theirs, unlike Sonos or Squeezebox, are the only ones capable of playing 196/24 files - so they must have pretty serious circuitry inside.
Complain about the price and playback software but please don't be argumentative for the sake of it. I've been following the quite critical Linn forums for a long time now due to my curiosity of the DS, I suggest you do the same if you want the full picture.
You need a computer anyway to do the ripping, etc; Linn recommend RipStation Micro, I believe. Therefore it is safe to assume that the DS purchaser already has a computer.
If the Linn DS players were just DACs then one could plug in a source of their choice:
[*]An AirPort Express £65 controlled by iTouch £165.
[*]Sonos ZP90 with controller, £449.
[*]Squeezebox Duet, £279.
[*]etc
I would agree that going via Ethernet is theoretically a better system for jitter reasons, etc, but the re-clocking circuitry in modern DACs is so could that these theoretical differences are not audible.
You're both missing the point of DS completely - nobody's dumb - if Linn wanted to make a standalone DAC they can, what they did was make a player - like Sonos - with a good enough DAC built-in unlike the apparently so-so one's in Sonos or Squeezebox, and also make the most of music software in most formats - their boxes are much more than just DACs inside.
Yes you need a PC to rip but that's a moot point in any digital system, and in theory for Sonos or DS you can have your NAS pre-loaded with your rips - isn't that the point? To ultimately do away with the PC? After you've ripped your stuff you don't need your PC on at all with Sonos or DS.
And of-course Linn are saying theirs are the best software players. And theirs, unlike Sonos or Squeezebox, are the only ones capable of playing 196/24 files - so they must have pretty serious circuitry inside.
Complain about the price and playback software but please don't be argumentative for the sake of it. I've been following the quite critical Linn forums for a long time now due to my curiosity of the DS, I suggest you do the same if you want the full picture.
John Duncan
Well-known member
Andrew Everard:
JohnDuncan:Well since Naim's SEO precludes you from finding it on their own site, something had to.
Maybe the Naimees thought having it on the home page with a link through to the product would do the job
Though they don't appear to think the same for integrated amplifiers....
JohnDuncan:Well since Naim's SEO precludes you from finding it on their own site, something had to.
Maybe the Naimees thought having it on the home page with a link through to the product would do the job
Though they don't appear to think the same for integrated amplifiers....
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