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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Manic,
HiFi companies cannot make user interfaces, as we have seen from Linn and Naim's efforts.
Linn have taken the better approach though, whereas Naim have taken some ordinary PC components and constructed a very expensive and average-sounding Windows computer.
24/192 isn't actually audible. 16/44 is just about good enough, and even 24/96 is overkill. An excellent white paper was written about this by Dan Lavry, and blind testing from the Audio Critic confirm it too.
The reason why these high-res tracks sound so fantastic is because much greater effort has been put into the initial recording, IMO. I was listening to some 24/96 music played from HD Tracks last night, played on my Mac Mini.
The Mac cost a few hundred pounds and for me offers interfaces far in excess of what a tiny cottage HiFi company can muster.
Plug the Mac into a DAC of choice and that's as good as the source can be. Something from the professional ranges not much over £500 is what you need spend.
There are far greater problems later on in the chain. For example, underpowered amplifiers, and passive loudspeakers.
Try some studio monitors; you'll be shocked at the sound for the pound.
HiFi companies cannot make user interfaces, as we have seen from Linn and Naim's efforts.
Linn have taken the better approach though, whereas Naim have taken some ordinary PC components and constructed a very expensive and average-sounding Windows computer.
24/192 isn't actually audible. 16/44 is just about good enough, and even 24/96 is overkill. An excellent white paper was written about this by Dan Lavry, and blind testing from the Audio Critic confirm it too.
The reason why these high-res tracks sound so fantastic is because much greater effort has been put into the initial recording, IMO. I was listening to some 24/96 music played from HD Tracks last night, played on my Mac Mini.
The Mac cost a few hundred pounds and for me offers interfaces far in excess of what a tiny cottage HiFi company can muster.
Plug the Mac into a DAC of choice and that's as good as the source can be. Something from the professional ranges not much over £500 is what you need spend.
There are far greater problems later on in the chain. For example, underpowered amplifiers, and passive loudspeakers.
Try some studio monitors; you'll be shocked at the sound for the pound.
manicm
Well-known member
Eddie I agree with a lot of what you've said here, but the HDX is a lot more than the sum of its parts, and owners and reviews swear by it.
My experience with ripping on a PC has been less than satisfactory (is it cos my lappie has a DVD drive? etc etc etc), and what Naim is doing is taking away many unknowns.
I also think it's very expensive but until I've listened to it I would never call it a gimmick.
My experience with ripping on a PC has been less than satisfactory (is it cos my lappie has a DVD drive? etc etc etc), and what Naim is doing is taking away many unknowns.
I also think it's very expensive but until I've listened to it I would never call it a gimmick.
Manic,
The HDX doesn't do anything that you cannot achieve on a computer.
If you rips are dodgy then there is obviously a fault in your system. I have measured rips from iTunes to rips verified by Accurate Rip's database via EAC and it's identical.
Naim claim that their ripping engine is superior but have never provided evidence to prove superiority over iTunes. Email them and ask; they won't oblige you!
The main benefit of the HDX is that it is ready to go, out of the box. You made need to spend three minutes setting up your laptop otherwise.
If you refer to HiFi Choice's review you'll see an internal shot of the HDX .It uses a Mini iTX motherboard, Windows XP, Seagate harddrives, a CVS DRL-200 DVD mech, and some other bits.
The HDX doesn't do anything that you cannot achieve on a computer.
If you rips are dodgy then there is obviously a fault in your system. I have measured rips from iTunes to rips verified by Accurate Rip's database via EAC and it's identical.
Naim claim that their ripping engine is superior but have never provided evidence to prove superiority over iTunes. Email them and ask; they won't oblige you!
The main benefit of the HDX is that it is ready to go, out of the box. You made need to spend three minutes setting up your laptop otherwise.
If you refer to HiFi Choice's review you'll see an internal shot of the HDX .It uses a Mini iTX motherboard, Windows XP, Seagate harddrives, a CVS DRL-200 DVD mech, and some other bits.
Eddie Pound:Naim claim that their ripping engine is superior but have never provided evidence to prove superiority over iTunes. Email them and ask; they won't oblige you!
Then e-mail Apple and ask them to provide technical evidence for the superiority of iTunes over the proprietary software that Naim are using in the HDX.
Let us know how you get on.
Then e-mail Apple and ask them to provide technical evidence for the superiority of iTunes over the proprietary software that Naim are using in the HDX.
Let us know how you get on.
I might ring Apple one day and ask.
However the burden should be on Naim. They are the ones who said, "other rippers only claim to be perfect", although obviously referring to EAC.
However the burden should be on Naim. They are the ones who said, "other rippers only claim to be perfect", although obviously referring to EAC.
Actually I have a bit of a giggle about the VFM of the £4500 Naim HDX.
But I tend to temper that with the giggle a typical HDX owner would have at my inability to afford one.
People who value their time so highly - that £4500 spent avoiding having to d##k around with computers actually represents good value - probably don't feel the need (or have the time) to pester Naim asking questions they probably already know the answer to but could not care less about.
Higher up the food chain still are the Sooloos owners whose £12,000 also buys them up to 2500 free rips of all their existing CDs. (Done by the company.) The will also propogate that around the system on your yacht and your house in monte Carlo or Rio or wherever.
They probably pity the HDX owners.
But I tend to temper that with the giggle a typical HDX owner would have at my inability to afford one.
People who value their time so highly - that £4500 spent avoiding having to d##k around with computers actually represents good value - probably don't feel the need (or have the time) to pester Naim asking questions they probably already know the answer to but could not care less about.
Higher up the food chain still are the Sooloos owners whose £12,000 also buys them up to 2500 free rips of all their existing CDs. (Done by the company.) The will also propogate that around the system on your yacht and your house in monte Carlo or Rio or wherever.
They probably pity the HDX owners.
How much d--king around does it take to rip a CD with your iMac..?
How much d--king around might one have to go through controlling the HDX?
How much d--king around might one have to go through controlling the HDX?
John Duncan
Well-known member
Eddie Pound:
How much d--king around does it take to rip a CD with your iMac..?
How much d--king around might one have to go through controlling the HDX?
It's mucking about with wireless networking that's more of an issue...
How much d--king around does it take to rip a CD with your iMac..?
How much d--king around might one have to go through controlling the HDX?
It's mucking about with wireless networking that's more of an issue...
Eddie Pound:
How much d--king around does it take to rip a CD with your iMac..?
How much d--king around might one have to go through controlling the HDX?
I actually agree with you but I am familiar with, and happy around PCs and Macs (we have both) whereas some people may just not want to get involved with all that.
No good arguing about it because most HDX owners have probably never been near an online forum in their lives and would not understand why you are bothered about it.
Naim are probably not bothered about answering provocative emails because they are too busy punting out HDX's at £4500 a pop to people who have not made their purchases conditional upon proofs of technical superiority over software they never intended to use anyway.
How much d--king around does it take to rip a CD with your iMac..?
How much d--king around might one have to go through controlling the HDX?
I actually agree with you but I am familiar with, and happy around PCs and Macs (we have both) whereas some people may just not want to get involved with all that.
No good arguing about it because most HDX owners have probably never been near an online forum in their lives and would not understand why you are bothered about it.
Naim are probably not bothered about answering provocative emails because they are too busy punting out HDX's at £4500 a pop to people who have not made their purchases conditional upon proofs of technical superiority over software they never intended to use anyway.
Naim could sell the HDX for £50, and Eddie would still keep bleating about it, seems he has a problem with Naim.
I would love an HDX but its out of my price range, but I think its an excellent bit of kit..........
I would love an HDX but its out of my price range, but I think its an excellent bit of kit..........
Back on topic, please - this thread's about the NaimUniti, not for revisiting all the HDX Naim-calling we went through a few months ago.
manicm
Well-known member
Eddie Pound:
Manic,
The HDX doesn't do anything that you cannot achieve on a computer.
If you rips are dodgy then there is obviously a fault in your system. I have measured rips from iTunes to rips verified by Accurate Rip's database via EAC and it's identical.
Naim claim that their ripping engine is superior but have never provided evidence to prove superiority over iTunes. Email them and ask; they won't oblige you!
The main benefit of the HDX is that it is ready to go, out of the box. You made need to spend three minutes setting up your laptop otherwise.
If you refer to HiFi Choice's review you'll see an internal shot of the HDX .It uses a Mini iTX motherboard, Windows XP, Seagate harddrives, a CVS DRL-200 DVD mech, and some other bits.
I still think things like AccurateRip are superfluous. And in the latest issue of one of the other leading UK mags one of the contributors claimed he found it difficult to equal the quality of the HDX's rips compared to his efforts on the PC. He may be wrong, PC illiterate but I'm not lying about the article or mag.
Manic,
The HDX doesn't do anything that you cannot achieve on a computer.
If you rips are dodgy then there is obviously a fault in your system. I have measured rips from iTunes to rips verified by Accurate Rip's database via EAC and it's identical.
Naim claim that their ripping engine is superior but have never provided evidence to prove superiority over iTunes. Email them and ask; they won't oblige you!
The main benefit of the HDX is that it is ready to go, out of the box. You made need to spend three minutes setting up your laptop otherwise.
If you refer to HiFi Choice's review you'll see an internal shot of the HDX .It uses a Mini iTX motherboard, Windows XP, Seagate harddrives, a CVS DRL-200 DVD mech, and some other bits.
I still think things like AccurateRip are superfluous. And in the latest issue of one of the other leading UK mags one of the contributors claimed he found it difficult to equal the quality of the HDX's rips compared to his efforts on the PC. He may be wrong, PC illiterate but I'm not lying about the article or mag.
manicm
Well-known member
Andrew Everard:Back on topic, please - this thread's about the NaimUniti, not for revisiting all the HDX Naim-calling we went through a few months ago.
True, but apart from the HDX's ripping they're similar products both with DACs and streaming capabilites built-in. I think the crux of this topic is why not, either way, to go the cheaper PC route. So Naim's the target here.
The Uniti seems to be essentially the HDX sans the ripping and with a few extras like iPod connectivity, and its amplifier.
True, but apart from the HDX's ripping they're similar products both with DACs and streaming capabilites built-in. I think the crux of this topic is why not, either way, to go the cheaper PC route. So Naim's the target here.
The Uniti seems to be essentially the HDX sans the ripping and with a few extras like iPod connectivity, and its amplifier.
Yes, apart from the ripping, the totally different disc-drive, the hard disc, the amplifier, the iPod connectivity, the wireless networking and the internet radio they're very similar
manicm
Well-known member
Andrew Everard:Yes, apart from the ripping, the totally different disc-drive, the hard disc, the amplifier, the iPod connectivity, the wireless networking and the internet radio they're very similar
Apparently both CDPs are based on the CD5i? And both have wireless network streaming?. But yes they are otherwise different agreed.
Apparently both CDPs are based on the CD5i? And both have wireless network streaming?. But yes they are otherwise different agreed.
I'm not sure the players are both based on the CD5i - the HDX has a very different loader mechanism and performs rather different functions.
I think the confusion may have arisen from comments in some reviews that the HDX, as a standalone CD player, is at least as good as the CD5i.
I think the confusion may have arisen from comments in some reviews that the HDX, as a standalone CD player, is at least as good as the CD5i.
surely though the crux of the matter is that at that price it should be a lot better? not knocking it, i just think that is whats got a lot of peoples backs up? personally if i were richer, and it had an interface like the mac, itunes and itouch, i would be interested because it looks lovely to me. but it would have to sound a lot better then a cd5i.
John Duncan
Well-known member
I thought the HD playback did sound a lot better, but as a standalone CD player it's 'merely' 5i standard? Not that I've heard it, just the way I've read it.
yeah, same for me. i think it seems poor value. the uniti however, if it sounds as good as, or near to, the separates it's based on then it looks excellent value to me. chebby, any chance you could get one on home dem and compare?
my other half wants something for the bedroom, if i decide to keep the mac mini in my hifi, i will have to check the uniti out.
Craig M.:..... the uniti however, if it sounds as good as, or near to, the separates it's based on then it looks excellent value to me. chebby, any chance you could get one on home dem and compare?
Sorry, it's over £500 more than I paid for my 5i stuff and I would be paying for things I don't need or want (DAB and iPod connectivity for instance) and lacks direct USB connection - except for memory sticks.
Apart from a more compact form, I would not gain anything.
Sorry, it's over £500 more than I paid for my 5i stuff and I would be paying for things I don't need or want (DAB and iPod connectivity for instance) and lacks direct USB connection - except for memory sticks.
Apart from a more compact form, I would not gain anything.
manicm
Well-known member
Well let's see - decent amp, decent CDP, dedicated iPod integration, decent DAC, tuner, network streaming player.
If all this goo sounds half-decent I would say it's not bad value at all. Naim may actually be on something here, and if it does sound good it would give Linn's Sneaky something to think about.
If all this goo sounds half-decent I would say it's not bad value at all. Naim may actually be on something here, and if it does sound good it would give Linn's Sneaky something to think about.
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