Mysteries of the newbie hifi lover

[giocap]

Greetings audiophiles,
I have questions and a tale of woe and despair. Dunno if a good samaritan is willing to answer.

I decided to get the hifi sickness in2021 .I'm a music lover and i was tired of listening to music on 100€ devices (for all americans 1€=1$ nowadays)

Magnat supreme 202 (220€ on amazon) , a yamaha A-S201 (250€) ampli, a smsl SU-6 DAC for 150€, a cheap sony cd player from the 90s at 40€ with optical out connected to my dac.

I would listen to cds, or flac/mp3 320 through the dac.

So im thinking, i should have a pleasant audio experience for 600€, right?

Wrong.

No soundstage, little and muddled bass, no dynamics. . Lots of precision in reproducing audio, clear representation of music. But Lifeless.

I studied placement i tried everything. I was really sad about this situation, and it felt like i just puchased a bunch of boxes, but no sweet musical happiness in my home.

Question 1 : where did i go wrong, How is it possible to get bad results in 2021 with 600€ , did i mess up the ampli/ speaker combo?

1 year of musical unhappiness passes.

Yesterday i saw a pair of jamo e670 tower speakers for 150Eur, sold by a shady individual with a sigarette in his mouth, floor full of sigs. Zero hygene.

I had a good feeling, and was willing to waste some more money , for the pursuit of happiness, i guess.

Bring the jamo's home.
I have bass! I have some sound stage! Some form of projection of the mids! ...these towers cost 70 less than my magnat 202's.

I have found a minimal amount of musical happiness! Things are looking good! I do not look at my hifi with disdain anymore!

Now, my logical assumption is that it was the magnat's fault. Magnat is a reputable german company of cheap hifi, not much different from jamo! The e670 are despised all over the internet! The magnat's are not!
So i spent 100e on a class d ampli : the ayima tube t9, and the magnat's came to life! More soundstage, bass still not there, but better! More lively dynamics! I put the magnat and ayima in my bedroom. Double win.

Question 2: what made the magnat's sound so bad with the yamaha A-S01? And so good with the ayima?

Question 3: i am in love with hi fi now. I have another 400€ to sink in this drug of a hobby, what would you super experts advise me to add/change to my main setup (yamaha A-S201, JAMO E670, SMSL SU-6)?
I'm looking for more soundstage, more 3d spatial extension at low volumes. But im a bit scared to ruin it! I have grown fond of used stuff too after my experience with the jamo's...

Thank you! Any opinion on the mistakes i made is welcome!

 

[MrReaper182]

I've no idea what makes your new hi-fi separates gear sound better together than your old hi-fi separates gear as I've never heard any of your hi-fi separates gear.
Sometimes some hi-fi separates gear does not work well together no matter how good all the hi-fi separates gear is your trying to get to work together, I guess some hi-fi brands don't work well with others. Normally you find out what works together and what does not by asking on hi-fi forums, asking the experts in hi-fi shops, demoing stuff you like or just buying the hi-fi separates yourself like you did and hoping for the best.
Other times it can be a simple thing s such as furniture in your home music's listening area (like where you positioned your sofa, chair or table ) that makes your hi-fi separates gear sound not as good as it should. In my music listening area (which is my living room) I have to have my sofa positioned a certain way to get the best out of my speakers.
Being a audiophile can be very annoying at times (especially for loved ones who don't share your enthusiasm lol) but when it all clicks it is really worth all the hassle you went through in the end as all you want to do is stay in all day and do nothing but listen to music.
Getting good soundstage is all about how you position your speakers in your music listening area so you don't need to spend any money to get better soundstage, just play around with your speakers positioning until you are happy with the soundstage you get from them. Spatial audio is 360 audio and when it comes to two channel music listening you don't need spatial audio. Spatial audio is normally for moves as they need audio to be coming from all directions unlike music which just needs to be coming from the front of you to your ears.

 

[giocap]

I've no idea what makes your new hi-fi separates gear sound better together than your old hi-fi separates gear as I've never heard any of your hi-fi separates gear.
Sometimes some hi-fi separates gear does not work well together no matter how good all the hi-fi separates gear is your trying to get to work together, I guess some hi-fi brands don't work well with others. Normally you find out what works together and what does not by asking on hi-fi forums, asking the experts in hi-fi shops, demoing stuff you like or just buying the hi-fi separates yourself like you did and hoping for the best.
Other times it can be a simple thing s such as furniture in your home music's listening area (like where you positioned your sofa, chair or table ) that makes your hi-fi separates gear sound not as good as it should. In my music listening area (which is my living room) I have to have my sofa positioned a certain way to get the best out of my speakers.
Being a audiophile can be very annoying at times (especially for loved ones who don't share your enthusiasm lol) but when it all clicks it is really worth all the hassle you went through in the end as all you want to do is stay in all day and do nothing but listen to music.
Getting good soundstage is all about how you position your speakers in your music listening area so you don't need to spend any money to get better soundstage, just play around with your speakers positioning until you are happy with the soundstage you get from them. Spatial audio is 360 audio and when it comes to two channel music listening you don't need spatial audio. Spatial audio is normally for moves as they need audio to be coming from all directions unlike music which just needs to be coming from the front of you to your ears.

Thanks! Room did not change at all.
As for sound stage, i disagree, i tried many positions for both speakers and i can confirm to you the jamo has better soundstage than the magnats. Soundstage is not only position.
I could never extract a good soundstage from the magnat, while with the jamo i can.
Dont get me wrong, the magnats had crystal quality in mids and highs, and were quite precise. But not dynamic and did not "project" the sound well to my ears.
With another ampli , an inferior ampli!, they did a bit better. Better projection and dynamics, but not soundstage.
Why?

 

[matthewpianist]

Some of the issues you're describing are the drawbacks of the cheaper Yamaha amps, and it's there I would suggest you focus. A Marantz PM6007 would give you much more, and without breaking the bank.

 

[giocap]

Some of the issues you're describing are the drawbacks of the cheaper Yamaha amps, and it's there I would suggest you focus. A Marantz PM6007 would give you much more, and without breaking the bank.

Thank you so much, i had a feeling that marantz was what i needed, but i did not know for sure. This is the best thing for hifi after going to a friends house and listening to his gear.
Unfortunately all my audiophile friends have 1k ampli+ 1k speakers, something i cant justify to my wife for now.

 

[giocap]

Some of the issues you're describing are the drawbacks of the cheaper Yamaha amps, and it's there I would suggest you focus. A Marantz PM6007 would give you much more, and without breaking the bank.

Hey, one last question: the pm6007 has a dac, i would like an only-ampli amplifier, that does just 1 job: bringing my speakers to life, so that extra dac kinda sounds like wasted money. (Im trying to keep modules separate so i can improve) does marantz have a more simple option you would advise?
Also : what do you think of cambridge audio or a used harmon kardon hk670 for 355$?

 

[robdmarsh]

A lot of modern budget amplifiers include a DAC these days, in fact I'd say they practically all do. It's the way things are going. Don't be put off though, some of these are still very good, though I would avoid budget amps where they include a bluetooth receiver, you can do so much better with an off-board one of these and at not great expense.

I'm sure the Marantz mentioned above would be very good, and I know that it's sister brand Denon's pma 800ne is excellent cos I have one. It's performance goes beyond "budget amp" imo. These come up quite regularly for less than £300 here, maybe worth having a look where you are.

 

[matthewpianist]

I totally agree with @robdmarsh - Denon is another great alternative to Marantz. I'd also add Rotel into the mix, especially if you can find a pre-owned RA-06 within budget.

I'd steer clear of the lower Cambridge Audio models, they're OK but nothing special IMO.

 

[giocap]

I totally agree with @robdmarsh - Denon is another great alternative to Marantz. I'd also add Rotel into the mix, especially if you can find a pre-owned RA-06 within budget.

I'd steer clear of the lower Cambridge Audio models, they're OK but nothing special IMO.

Im in italy . Rotel is super expensive here. Above 800.
Marantz 6xxx series on the used market is full of options. And the 2022 pm6007 is 350-400 used, 700 new. Unfortunately USA is cheaper for hifi.

Going down to the 6006,6005,6004,6002 i get 30-40euros less every step.
The marantz 6002 goes for 200€ used
The pm4400 (2006-2005) goes for 140€

In your opinion Are these older models a bad step down? Or do they still deliver an improvement for my setup?

 

[giocap]

A lot of modern budget amplifiers include a DAC these days, in fact I'd say they practically all do. It's the way things are going. Don't be put off though, some of these are still very good, though I would avoid budget amps where they include a bluetooth receiver, you can do so much better with an off-board one of these and at not great expense.

I'm sure the Marantz mentioned above would be very good, and I know that it's sister brand Denon's pma 800ne is excellent cos I have one. It's performance goes beyond "budget amp" imo. These come up quite regularly for less than £300 here, maybe worth having a look where you are.

I'll accept the extra dac then. I can also confront the marantz dac with my SMSL su-6, and see wich one i like most, more options!

 

[WayneKerr]

Im in italy . Rotel is super expensive here. Above 800.
Marantz 6xxx series on the used market is full of options. And the 2022 pm6007 is 350-400 used, 700 new. Unfortunately USA is cheaper for hifi.

Going down to the 6006,6005,6004,6002 i get 30-40euros less every step.
The marantz 6002 goes for 200€ used
The pm4400 (2006-2005) goes for 140€

In your opinion Are these older models a bad step down? Or do they still deliver an improvement for my setup?

I like your thinking. If you want your amp without a DAC then look for older models without one. If you can find a cared for older amp in excellent condition then I would go for it, the 6004 upwards is probably the oldest I would look at as they are around 14 years old now. The differences between 6004 - 6006 will be very minor, forget what the hi-fi press say.

Personally, I always like to keep amp and DACs separate, it is a simpler approach. If a DAC is included in the amp then savings must have been made elsewhere in the amp to pay for it.

 

[giocap]

I like your thinking. If you want your amp without a DAC then look for older models without one. If you can find a cared for older amp in excellent condition then I would go for it, the 6004 upwards is probably the oldest I would look at as they are around 14 years old now. The differences between 6004 - 6006 will be very minor, forget what the hi-fi press say.

Personally, I always like to keep amp and DACs separate, it is a simpler approach. If a DAC is included in the amp then savings must have been made elsewhere in the amp to pay for it.

Gold. Thanks.
Less stuff, at parity of price ,75% of the time means the stuff you do get is better.
If there is a dac, i'll try it. Perhaps confront it with my smsl-su6.
Who knows , i might like it more.

 

[giocap]

Update. I did not buy an integrated amp.

I purchased 2 zerozone S1000W CLASS D monoblock power amps.
i use the dac as a "preamp" for volume control and input selection.

Oh. My. God

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOScfps

I thought going with cheap chinese class d monoblocks was a bit crazy and i should had played it safe with marantz, nad or rotel.

Bit these 2 monoblocks offer a power, soundstage, presence that is unbelievable, at least for me. I think i will be happy for at least 16 months.
I don't know if a better stereo amp would had been a similar jump, i only have experience with the yamaha a-s201, but these two class d monoblocks projected me to another world of music.

I was snobbish about class d, thinking it would sound artificial, i was wrong. The couple cost me 400..

Im Using my dac as a pre amp so now i need a good preamp with a remote......it never ends...