My Opinions On Hi-Fi

[Snooker]

I think there are mainly two levels of proper Hi-Fi, systems like mine the Denon Ceol N9 & Kef Q150's giving excellent sound quality from low to loudish music, then high end which really shine from loudish to very loud music, and in my view if you can not play a high end system to its full potential due to neighbours then why have it

My system is around £800 in total with speakers, and you could probably buy a high end system from as little as around £2500 with speakers, after which you are at diminishing returns in sound quality

Also any decent system is only as good as the quality of the recordings you play

Just my opinions, what do you think ?

 

[Revolutions]

I think that’s patently not true.

 

[JDL]

I only listen to CDs. I listen to a lot of classical music and I pay particular attention to the year of the recording and I believe that certain record companies can be trusted to release good quality recordings. However, the quality is still largely dependent on the year of the recording, because of improvements in recording equipment as the technology progressed.
I don't agree with your opinion that lower volume levels will sound as good on cheap equipment as expensive equipment. This is of course assuming that price correlates with quality, which I believe, generally it does.
High quality equipment that might well cost far more than £800 will without any doubt, sound superior at low volume, in fact whatever volume you choose to listen at when compared with cheaper equipment.
High quality equipment sounds superior to lower quality equipment at any volume and that, simply put, is a fact.

 

[WayneKerr]

I may have aligned my beliefs with yours many years ago but the upgrades I've done have proved the complete opposite of your opinion. The higher I've gone up the food chain the spread of available volume where the system sounds excellent has increased, especially so at lower volumes. My previous budget systems needed some good volume to sound their best.

Recordings can indeed be hit and miss but I'd rather have a system which excels with good recordings than one which masks both good and bad recordings.

As for high-end systems these are in the ear, eye, and wallet of the beholder. I certainly wouldn't class a £2.5K system as high-end... I certainly don't class mine as high-end or reference

 

[Witterings]

I certainly think you can get a very good system for £2.5k and with everything in life once you reach a certain level you'll see diminishing returns BUT I certainly don't think you need you need to belt something out at full volume to appreciate a "better" system ..... I'd say detail and clarity and are main benefits of a higher end system which can be appreciated both at low as well as high levels.

 

[WayneKerr]

Just to add to my above comments. These do not come from a hifi snobbery viewpoint. I firmly believe if you have a system which pleases your ear and are fully contented then is no need to look any further. However, if you haven't reached the contentment stage then upgraditis is ready and waiting... been there done that three times

 

[Snooker]

I certainly think you can get a very good system for £2.5k and with everything in life once you reach a certain level you'll see diminishing returns BUT I certainly don't think you need you need to belt something out at full volume to appreciate a "better" system ..... I'd say detail and clarity and are main benefits of a higher end system which can be appreciated both a low as well as high levels.

You raise some good points about low & high volumes, but I have no doubt there is a sweet spot to the volume to get maximum benefit in detail and clarity

 

[Deleted member 201267]

You raise some good points about low & high volumes, but I have no doubt there is a sweet spot to the volume to get maximum benefit in detail and clarity

I think that sweet spot is listener dependant.

I for one can not tolerate high volume listening but my brother, who is practically deaf, needs the volume pushed to the max !

 

[WayneKerr]

You raise some good points about low & high volumes, but I have no doubt there is a sweet spot to the volume to get maximum benefit in detail and clarity

This will be very dependant on the kit you are listening to. My own experience has been that both detail and clarity improve substantially with better kit. My last kit sounded full at 75dB peak, my current kit sounds full at 60dB peak.

Our ears like louder so generally higher volume is more appreciated. It's our ears which have a sweet-spot not the kit.

 

[Witterings]

You raise some good points about low & high volumes, but I have no doubt there is a sweet spot to the volume to get maximum benefit in detail and clarity

Yes definitely .... but that works for both lower end and higher end systems alike.

 

[Snooker]

I am not saying the system needs to be maxed out with the volume control, but placed where the sound just starts to sound a little loudish for the sweet spot (For My Denon Ceol N9), but on a naim atom I tried the louder it went the music seemed to open out where as on the denon it starts to harden

 

[WayneKerr]

I am not saying the system needs to be maxed out with the volume control, but placed where the sound just starts to sound a little loudish for the sweet spot (For My Denon Ceol N9), but on a naim atom I tried the louder it went the music seemed to open out where as on the denon it starts to harden

Aah, you're talking Naim watts there. Naim watts are special

 

[abacus]

I am not saying the system needs to be maxed out with the volume control, but placed where the sound just starts to sound a little loudish for the sweet spot (For My Denon Ceol N9), but on a naim atom I tried the louder it went the music seemed to open out where as on the denon it starts to harden

Your Denon was simply operating outside its design limitations with the increased volumes, that's all.
Look up Fletcher Munson Curve to see why sound varies with volume.

Bill

 

[Gray]

Recordings can indeed be hit and miss but I'd rather have a system which excels with good recordings than one which masks both good and bad recordings.

100% true for me.

 

[Jasonovich]

I think there are mainly two levels of proper Hi-Fi, systems like mine the Denon Ceol N9 & Kef Q150's giving excellent sound quality from low to loudish music, then high end which really shine from loudish to very loud music, and in my view if you can not play a high end system to its full potential due to neighbours then why have it

My system is around £800 in total with speakers, and you could probably buy a high end system from as little as around £2500 with speakers, after which you are at diminishing returns in sound quality

Also any decent system is only as good as the quality of the recordings you play

Just my opinions, what do you think ?

Totally agree on the quality of the recordings, rubbish source often means poor listening experience but there are some systems that have been specially tuned to sound nice at the expense of accuracy.

I guess, it all much depends on the system, some are more forgiving than others.
The question to ask is:

what do you want from your system, do you want it to reveal warts and all or do you want a system that fills in the rough edges.

This is the dilemma I think with HiFi, different dealerships have their own perspective on how they represent the music, lovely and smooth or edgy and dynamic.

I tend to lean towards the smooth with some degree of transparency and accuracy. I don't think there's a perfect system at any price, there's always a trade off.

 

[twinkletoes]

I am not saying the system needs to be maxed out with the volume control, but placed where the sound just starts to sound a little loudish for the sweet spot (For My Denon Ceol N9), but on a naim atom I tried the louder it went the music seemed to open out where as on the denon it starts to harden

You're talking about a very different thing here to what you mentioned above in your original post. What you're describing is the amp running out of current, leading to insufficient control of the speakers, leading to the hardening up you're hearing. Plenty of high-end speakers don't like being pushed. I've heard very high-end amps struggle because of their very low wattage affairs. These amps cost 10-15k, yet i wouldn't put a pair of 85db 8ohm ATC smc7's on an 8-watt class A Audionote amp. it would make a nice noise but you certainly wouldn't get any volume out of it.

This has no correlation with budget but has everything to do with partnering the equipment correctly.

For example, B&W are notorious for this. Their budget speakers will state for example 87db and 8ohm nominal load, but some of those said speakers will dip into the 3 ohm range and stay there for quite a while! That's not an easy load at all. There aren't many amps regardless of budget that can do that sort of current delivery let alone sustain it, especially at volume. They're meant to be budget speakers, easy to live with and paired with lovely yet cheap amps! To buy an amp that can control them properly might be a rather expensive proposition and that's what money buys you, control.

This why id never buy entry-level B&W or ATC without considering what it takes to drive these seemingly easy-to-drive (on paper) speakers and this is where spending the "majority of your budget on speakers" thought process breaks down. It just doesn't hold true unless those speakers are easy to drive. Klipsch for example.

I learnt a very long time ago to buy the most efficient speakers possible and along with that comes volume.

 

[bigfish786]

Here’s my spin on hifi.
Listen to the best stuff you can find.
Understand what you are hearing. i.e realism, detail, space, clarity, bass, etc.
try to get that sound or as near as you can for a reasonable amount of money.
Enjoy.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

then high end which really shine from loudish to very loud music, and in my view if you can not play a high end system to its full potential due to neighbours then why have it

In my experience, better gear sounds better at whatever volume you use it.

 

[Jasonovich]

You're talking about a very different thing here to what you mentioned above in your original post. What you're describing is the amp running out of current, leading to insufficient control of the speakers, leading to the hardening up you're hearing. Plenty of high-end speakers don't like being pushed. I've heard very high-end amps struggle because of their very low wattage affairs. These amps cost 10-15k, yet i wouldn't put a pair of 85db 8ohm ATC smc7's on an 8-watt class A Audionote amp. it would make a nice noise but you certainly wouldn't get any volume out of it.

This has no correlation with budget but has everything to do with partnering the equipment correctly.

For example, B&W are notorious for this. Their budget speakers will state for example 87db and 8ohm nominal load, but some of those said speakers will dip into the 3 ohm range and stay there for quite a while! That's not an easy load at all. There aren't many amps regardless of budget that can do that sort of current delivery let alone sustain it, especially at volume. They're meant to be budget speakers, easy to live with and paired with lovely yet cheap amps! To buy an amp that can control them properly might be a rather expensive proposition and that's what money buys you, control.

This why id never buy entry-level B&W or ATC without considering what it takes to drive these seemingly easy-to-drive (on paper) speakers and this is where spending the "majority of your budget on speakers" thought process breaks down. It just doesn't hold true unless those speakers are easy to drive. Klipsch for example.

I learnt a very long time ago to buy the most efficient speakers possible and along with that comes volume.

What you've highlighted is food for thought.

I am one of the many people, that wouldn't give much thought about the ohm's on the pretext of, most modern amps should drive the most demanding speakers, but the example you gave, regarding the B&W dropping down to 3 ohms is scary.

Thanks for that, you learn something every day

 

[daytona600]

£2500 per component not high end these days
Think circa $50k+ these days

 

[JDL]

Aah, you're talking Naim watts there. Naim watts are special

Please enlighten me friend. What's special about Naim Watts. Having never heard any Naim equipment I need it explaining to me. Or is this 'in house humour'?

 

[plastic penguin]

Your Denon was simply operating outside its design limitations with the increased volumes, that's all.
Look up Fletcher Munson Curve to see why sound varies with volume.

Bill

Agreed.

 

[JDL]

£2500 per component not high end these days
Think circa $50k+ these days

50 grand. Good Lord. I doubt whether I'll ever see any of that kind of equipment, let alone hear it.

 

[twinkletoes]

Please enlighten me friend. What's special about Naim Watts. Having never heard any Naim equipment I need it explaining to me. Or is this 'in house humour'?

It is tongue in cheek BUT Naim is one such example. basically, it means there are amps that are seemingly more powerful than their wattage figure suggests. NAD,rotel. all seem to, well, give you more.....more real-world figures.

 

[plastic penguin]

I think there are mainly two levels of proper Hi-Fi, systems like mine the Denon Ceol N9 & Kef Q150's giving excellent sound quality from low to loudish music, then high end which really shine from loudish to very loud music, and in my view if you can not play a high end system to its full potential due to neighbours then why have it

My system is around £800 in total with speakers, and you could probably buy a high end system from as little as around £2500 with speakers, after which you are at diminishing returns in sound quality

Also any decent system is only as good as the quality of the recordings you play

Just my opinions, what do you think ?

My system, which is midrange, exceeds with all genres and any volume level and I've spent more than £2500 with upgrades over the years.

Of course there are some crummy recordings out there but that's nothing new. My parents system in the 60s suffered the same indignity.