acalex said:
I don't know for definite, but can ask...........though he probably won't step outside his selling boundary.
CnoEvil said:
Hi Cno,
The Golden ref when plugged into the amp, did indeed increase the base and as a result the SQ became very muddied, but tonight I have had an extensive listening session with it plugged into the CDP and there is a definite improvement... and the base, although still there, its not getting in the way and the music is more dynamic with space and air between instruments.
Those stands, from the review, do sound like they may be the solution and yes they are pretty expensive, but worth trying to get a home demo.
The speakers aren't right against the wall and I really haven't got any more room for manoeuver. One is in a corner, but does have approx 6 to 8 inches at back and side, the other is about the same from the back wall and is open at the side.
Thanks again and hope the back is well on the mend now.
Mac
Macspur said:
My back is slowly improving, and hope to get back to work sometime in Feb.....thank you for asking.
The other possible solution would be Audio Note speakers..........but if you can try the TA stands, that might be the simplest solution, and possibly some sort of bass trap for the corner if possible.
There is no doubt that overwheming boomy bass undermines any other good that might be happening.
Did you get the S/Cs today as planned?
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http://www.kimber.com/products/loudspeakercables/select/ks3033/
But they are more in the price range of the Graphite than the 330L
I'm curious becaus the guy who sugested to try it compared them to 770L
He told be 770L where slightly better but to expensive an that the Kimbers for him at least wher way better than the 330 or 550.
So I will see how it go's
But anyway If I like it I will have to think about it as it is once again a bit over the budget limit I told my self not trespass..... (Like every other piece of equipment I have :twisted: )
But they are more in the price range of the Graphite than the 330L
I'm curious becaus the guy who sugested to try it compared them to 770L
He told be 770L where slightly better but to expensive an that the Kimbers for him at least wher way better than the 330 or 550.
So I will see how it go's
But anyway If I like it I will have to think about it as it is once again a bit over the budget limit I told my self not trespass..... (Like every other piece of equipment I have :twisted: )
Roby said:
I can't help feeling that really well sorted ultra pure (7N?) copper cables are what will work best in your system.......but that will remain to be seen.
Macspur said:
I think if you can get the right advice, maybe even get your room measured and do it tastefully......yes I think you should look at bass traps.
I have met this crowd who seemed good: http://www.advancedacoustics-uk.com/
There are others out there and some of your excellent dealers should be able to sort it out, or point you in the right direction.
Have a chat with the dealer who has the TA stands and see what they have to say......my dealer rates these stands very highly.
Is the G.Ref P/C making enough of a difference to make you want to keep it? Does it have an ordinary wall plug on it, and is it the one from Coherent Systems?
CnoEvil said:
Will read that link in a bit, thanks Cno.
Yes it is the one from Coherent Systems... I haven't made my mind up yet to be honest, will do some more extensive listening over the weekend.
Tony from Coherent also sent me some of their own brand Xlr's which he claimed were superior to my Siltechs, but I'm afraid I can't hear it... he has also sent some jumpers and wants me to try them over the weekend and report back.
Mac
Macspur said:
I'm a believer in the worthwhile effect that good jumpers can have......surprising as it may seem.
It sounds like Tony is the guy to discuss Track Audio with.
[/quote]
No sign of the SC's yet... will chase them up.
The same Company do stock the Track Audio stands, so may suggest a home dem if poss.
What would you suggest for a base trap?
Mac
[/quote]
Hey Mac,
not sure if you remember, but I recently went through the process of measuring the freq response in my room.
If it was something you were inclined to have a go at yourself it's not all that hard.
Software: trueRTA spectrum analyser. You can download a free version that gives you 1/3 octave, the full version gives you 1/24 octave measurements.
Microphone: Behringer ECM8000 (you will need a stand and lead as well)
Microphone pre-amp : Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 with USB or M-Audio do one as well
The set up will be around 250 pounds or so.
I would really say that if we are all willing to spend significant amounts on tweaks like cables etc then this is one component that is a must.
The most obvious thing that I found was the difference between the left & right. The left being corner loaded & the right being on an open side much the same as yours. I can't see that your Sedgen has balance control (?), my MF doesn't. So it wasn't until I was able to use the measuring process to isolate left / right that I could hear exactly how different each side was. I guess you could achieve thus by simply unplugging each speaker, but I'd say there are advantages to being able to measure the difference as well as hear it.
Good isolation platforms such as CNO has suggested should make a big difference.
Bass trap might be the go, but as your Harbeths are a front ported speaker perhaps treatment of reflection at the front would be more effective? There was a thread on here that you probably have seen where Robin was making his own bass traps with timber frames & rock wool. He was very happy with the difference especially given the cost he was able to build them for.
The good thing about having a freq measuring set up is that you can see in real time what adding/removing different things can make. Perhaps not subtle things like cables but certainly room treatments. A perfectly flat line is not always the ideal, but removing some of the subjectivity may be an advantage?
Either way I would suggest that room treatments will have a much bigger impact than any cabling, especially if the goal is to remove bass boom.
Better to deal with the elephant in the room first 🙂
Alex & Roby you should give this a go yourself. If nothing else it's good fun just playing around & not all that expensive to do (reletive to the amount we are spending on kit that is).
No sign of the SC's yet... will chase them up.
The same Company do stock the Track Audio stands, so may suggest a home dem if poss.
What would you suggest for a base trap?
Mac
[/quote]
Hey Mac,
not sure if you remember, but I recently went through the process of measuring the freq response in my room.
If it was something you were inclined to have a go at yourself it's not all that hard.
Software: trueRTA spectrum analyser. You can download a free version that gives you 1/3 octave, the full version gives you 1/24 octave measurements.
Microphone: Behringer ECM8000 (you will need a stand and lead as well)
Microphone pre-amp : Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 with USB or M-Audio do one as well
The set up will be around 250 pounds or so.
I would really say that if we are all willing to spend significant amounts on tweaks like cables etc then this is one component that is a must.
The most obvious thing that I found was the difference between the left & right. The left being corner loaded & the right being on an open side much the same as yours. I can't see that your Sedgen has balance control (?), my MF doesn't. So it wasn't until I was able to use the measuring process to isolate left / right that I could hear exactly how different each side was. I guess you could achieve thus by simply unplugging each speaker, but I'd say there are advantages to being able to measure the difference as well as hear it.
Good isolation platforms such as CNO has suggested should make a big difference.
Bass trap might be the go, but as your Harbeths are a front ported speaker perhaps treatment of reflection at the front would be more effective? There was a thread on here that you probably have seen where Robin was making his own bass traps with timber frames & rock wool. He was very happy with the difference especially given the cost he was able to build them for.
The good thing about having a freq measuring set up is that you can see in real time what adding/removing different things can make. Perhaps not subtle things like cables but certainly room treatments. A perfectly flat line is not always the ideal, but removing some of the subjectivity may be an advantage?
Either way I would suggest that room treatments will have a much bigger impact than any cabling, especially if the goal is to remove bass boom.
Better to deal with the elephant in the room first 🙂
Alex & Roby you should give this a go yourself. If nothing else it's good fun just playing around & not all that expensive to do (reletive to the amount we are spending on kit that is).
No sign of the SC's yet... will chase them up.
The same Company do stock the Track Audio stands, so may suggest a home dem if poss.
What would you suggest for a base trap?
Mac
[/quote]
Hey Mac,
not sure if you remember, but I recently went through the process of measuring the freq response in my room.
If it was something you were inclined to have a go at yourself it's not all that hard.
Software: trueRTA spectrum analyser. You can download a free version that gives you 1/3 octave, the full version gives you 1/24 octave measurements.
Microphone: Behringer ECM8000 (you will need a stand and lead as well)
Microphone pre-amp : Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 with USB or M-Audio do one as well
The set up will be around 250 pounds or so.
I would really say that if we are all willing to spend significant amounts on tweaks like cables etc then this is one component that is a must.
The most obvious thing that I found was the difference between the left & right. The left being corner loaded & the right being on an open side much the same as yours. I can't see that your Sedgen has balance control (?), my MF doesn't. So it wasn't until I was able to use the measuring process to isolate left / right that I could hear exactly how different each side was. I guess you could achieve thus by simply unplugging each speaker, but I'd say there are advantages to being able to measure the difference as well as hear it.
Good isolation platforms such as CNO has suggested should make a big difference.
Bass trap might be the go, but as your Harbeths are a front ported speaker perhaps treatment of reflection at the front would be more effective? There was a thread on here that you probably have seen where Robin was making his own bass traps with timber frames & rock wool. He was very happy with the difference especially given the cost he was able to build them for.
The good thing about having a freq measuring set up is that you can see in real time what adding/removing different things can make. Perhaps not subtle things like cables but certainly room treatments. A perfectly flat line is not always the ideal, but removing some of the subjectivity may be an advantage?
Either way I would suggest that room treatments will have a much bigger impact than any cabling, especially if the goal is to remove bass boom.
Better to deal with the elephant in the room first 🙂
Alex & Roby you should give this a go yourself. If nothing else it's good fun just playing around & not all that expensive to do (reletive to the amount we are spending on kit that is).
[/quote]
Appreciate the advice Neuphonix and you make a very valid point, but being blind, I would find conducting something like that in my room almost impossible and I don't really have anyone else who would be willing to carry it out for me.
Yes, boom is an issue, but it is nowhere near as bad as it used to be before I got the Harbeths... it's only on certain tracks and playing at higher than my normal listening level.
Even so, I am keen to try and tame this as much as possible, as well as at the same time, improve the overall SQ... this may or may not be achieved by cables.
Macspur said:
Mac, my dealer would come out and do this, so bear in mind that as a possibility.....which was the thinking behind why I mentioned discussing it with them (ie. your dealers).
Hey Mac,
didn't mean to be insensitive, just appeared you were so able that you might have a way around it 🙂
Probably worth asking your dealer if they have a foam corner trap they could lend you, be interesting to hear if it did make a difference. You could always let the missus chose the material that it gets covered with 🙂
My room sounds similar in size & layout as yours. I have carpet though which probably helps absorb reflections. I found that getting the stands up on spikes helped a lot, also even getting them away from the corners by about an extra 6 inches made a difference. Slight compromise in layout & space but worth it, reduced the corner loading effect noticably.
BTW, did you end up deciding on a headphone amp yet, or still deciding?
didn't mean to be insensitive, just appeared you were so able that you might have a way around it 🙂
Probably worth asking your dealer if they have a foam corner trap they could lend you, be interesting to hear if it did make a difference. You could always let the missus chose the material that it gets covered with 🙂
My room sounds similar in size & layout as yours. I have carpet though which probably helps absorb reflections. I found that getting the stands up on spikes helped a lot, also even getting them away from the corners by about an extra 6 inches made a difference. Slight compromise in layout & space but worth it, reduced the corner loading effect noticably.
BTW, did you end up deciding on a headphone amp yet, or still deciding?
Neuphonix said:
I did wonder about carpet myself, but don't think the Mrs would go for that... so much easier to clean up Molly's, the Guide Dog that is, hair off the hard surface, but I might mute the idea again.
The Headphone amp seems to have taken a bit of a back seat for now, but sure I will revisit later.
Mac
Macspur said:
A pet hair vacuum (Miele, Dyson. Bissell) is the way to go! :shifty:
Get good thick underlay as well (green stuff that looks a little like bubble rap). I used to have a laminate floor, which was terrible acoustically.
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Hello Hello
Like Alex said a long an intresting day yesterday an an other great dealer 🙂
Really knowledgable, Learned to know some nice new brands. like VA really nice amp oké really not cheap there enterence model costing 11000€.... :O
Connzctzd to some Estonian speakers I don't recal the brand (mayby Alex remembered).
An yes cables search got to an other dimention for me Iactualy I came to the understanding that I actualy know less than I tought about theme an that I can still learn a lot.
Also finaly lost a bit this mith we can have even if we don't want to say it loud "How bigger an unfortunatly the cable how betther the sound"
Altruegh I also admid that somwere I knew that as for me the 330L sounded better than the Graphite....
Also beside the brands we keep discussing Siltech, TQ, Atlas, Cardas.... Learn to know some new Brands like Jorma (I actually heard them before at the HIFIshow when I went get the TQ's but didn't really payed attention to it as I was not there for that) An what actualy Impressed me the most, Also considering the price level is Purist Audio disign
http://www.puristaudiodesign.com/aboutus.php
Now the system we used was gread relly well tought an balanced we wher using a cdp "Macro media"I think. But it was completly differend as or systems.
But we tested Kimber (same as I have at home in demo), Atlas (Marvos), Cardas (GR), Jorma (N2), Purist Audio (Aqueous Aureus)
We took 3 set's home Atlas, PA, Jorma
We made or choice based on what we heard there an once again Alex an me came to the same conclusion...So I really think that if you base you conclusions in one systeme an you came to the same in terms of sq an more importenly sound fun (witch is not always the same) you can't be to far from the truth.
so my ranking at this point would be:
Jorma (we will see what it do in my system)
Siltech (330) or purist Aodio (I'm dieing to find out when Alex Is finished with them)
Graphite
Atlas
Siltech 220
Ah
Cardas
Kimber
UB
This is strange mabe based on what I wrote previously an I Know this can change but because I didn't heard all of theme in my system an also if I consider VFM Siltech 330 an provably PAD would be on 1 an AH maybe on 2.....also Kimber was not good yesterday but in my system it is actualy good. But yesterday I reconnected the 330 an I was to tired but it so had dificuty's to judge an actualy was not able to dicid I I wan a keep listening or go to bed... but it was an improvement that's for shure...Compared to the kimber it takes an actave away in the voice witch somtimes I can regret a little
But all the instruments are better separated an cleaner an no haevy boome an strugle in the low compared o Kimber an even Graphite.
So to me it just a more balanced sound. an the choice between the one's I have in mind will be really hard considering SQ/VFM
Conclusion of my experience of yesterday, It was really a an opening for me an it made me realise I might not be finished with my search but it eliminate diffenetly a couple of brands.
I took the Jorma Home but we forgot one in the shop so have to go back tomorrow an get it I will connect them this week an certenly keep you posted.
To be honest I think my search is narrowed down to 3 I think
Siltech/Pad being at the same price tag Jorma being better in yesterday's system but costing arround 1000€ more (I always tak 3M to compare as I idialy need that)
Like Alex said a long an intresting day yesterday an an other great dealer 🙂
Really knowledgable, Learned to know some nice new brands. like VA really nice amp oké really not cheap there enterence model costing 11000€.... :O
Connzctzd to some Estonian speakers I don't recal the brand (mayby Alex remembered).
An yes cables search got to an other dimention for me Iactualy I came to the understanding that I actualy know less than I tought about theme an that I can still learn a lot.
Also finaly lost a bit this mith we can have even if we don't want to say it loud "How bigger an unfortunatly the cable how betther the sound"
Altruegh I also admid that somwere I knew that as for me the 330L sounded better than the Graphite....
Also beside the brands we keep discussing Siltech, TQ, Atlas, Cardas.... Learn to know some new Brands like Jorma (I actually heard them before at the HIFIshow when I went get the TQ's but didn't really payed attention to it as I was not there for that) An what actualy Impressed me the most, Also considering the price level is Purist Audio disign
http://www.puristaudiodesign.com/aboutus.php
Now the system we used was gread relly well tought an balanced we wher using a cdp "Macro media"I think. But it was completly differend as or systems.
But we tested Kimber (same as I have at home in demo), Atlas (Marvos), Cardas (GR), Jorma (N2), Purist Audio (Aqueous Aureus)
We took 3 set's home Atlas, PA, Jorma
We made or choice based on what we heard there an once again Alex an me came to the same conclusion...So I really think that if you base you conclusions in one systeme an you came to the same in terms of sq an more importenly sound fun (witch is not always the same) you can't be to far from the truth.
so my ranking at this point would be:
Jorma (we will see what it do in my system)
Siltech (330) or purist Aodio (I'm dieing to find out when Alex Is finished with them)
Graphite
Atlas
Siltech 220
Ah
Cardas
Kimber
UB
This is strange mabe based on what I wrote previously an I Know this can change but because I didn't heard all of theme in my system an also if I consider VFM Siltech 330 an provably PAD would be on 1 an AH maybe on 2.....also Kimber was not good yesterday but in my system it is actualy good. But yesterday I reconnected the 330 an I was to tired but it so had dificuty's to judge an actualy was not able to dicid I I wan a keep listening or go to bed... but it was an improvement that's for shure...Compared to the kimber it takes an actave away in the voice witch somtimes I can regret a little
But all the instruments are better separated an cleaner an no haevy boome an strugle in the low compared o Kimber an even Graphite.
So to me it just a more balanced sound. an the choice between the one's I have in mind will be really hard considering SQ/VFM
Conclusion of my experience of yesterday, It was really a an opening for me an it made me realise I might not be finished with my search but it eliminate diffenetly a couple of brands.
I took the Jorma Home but we forgot one in the shop so have to go back tomorrow an get it I will connect them this week an certenly keep you posted.
To be honest I think my search is narrowed down to 3 I think
Siltech/Pad being at the same price tag Jorma being better in yesterday's system but costing arround 1000€ more (I always tak 3M to compare as I idialy need that)
Roby said:
Hi Rob
I would ask you not to discard Cardas on the basis of the Golden Cross (I had thought the Golden Refs would have been better). Whereas I think it works well in some systems, for some tastes (I love it in mine), the newer Clear cable range sounds quite different, being faster and much more open. Alex mentioned the dealer had a demo set of the Clear Light , which were lent out.....so you could get your hands on some - and then I will shut up (promise)......Apparently these 2 models really do sound quite different, but check with the dealer to confirm.
The reason for my dogged insistence, is that I happen to think Cardas works so well with the 35i; and that you can never really know for sure until you try it in your system. It's the one brand of cable you've tried, that I happen to have lived with for a couple of years, with the same amp as you, and attached to an open, airy pair of speakers.
They may well not end up being your final choice, but I feel it would be a shame if you never heard their current design (the Golden range has been mostly dropped) in your respective systems.
- Jan 17, 2012
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Hello
Haven't post anything for a while now. this didn't mean I sat still.....the thing is a on a certain momment I came to a point where nothing sounded good, it was to much or not enough....
So I diceided to ask some advice to my dealer......should ik buy cheaper cable an a better digital source......or keep digital like it is for now an put my energie looking for the best matching cable... (not nececerly the most expensive)
Afther a chat with Francis I didn't really sort it out completly but it gave me peace of mind
I mean he gave me 3 set's of cables an he advised me to take my time let the amp run 24/7 bfour each cable during somthing like 2 weeks the first one to let them run i as they are all brand new an the secound to apreciate them fully. an on the end switch every 2 days an see what I like the most.
The 3 set's I have for the momment.
Transparent: Super music wave:
Superb cable afther it was runned in. It was detailed powerfull an still slightly laid back
Kimber 12CT
I connected them yesterday; It's a verry spacial cable I have to say. An in my system a better match as the select's Being more adgile.
Tha music was more upfront an clean (not more detailed as with the Transârant but more crispy) Transparency is exceptional it's really life like.
But first impression was unfortionally it was taking away the powerfull impression the transparent where giving to my system (to have the same power full effect I had to turn up the volume pretty high an this quicly became to much for me but they are brand new maybe de power impression at lower volume will break in in a few days
But at this point I really like this both cablesTransparant also have a great upgrade plicy witch I think is really cool. Now for the kimber I was kind of impressed how the same compagny can make such a differend sounding cable I have to admid I was not expacting much from those Kimbers after trying the selects an I was nicely surprised
Only thing is it's maybe to upfront an this will gett tyering maybe I hope the next 2weeks will sort that out.
I also took the AH kb10 Back home an I a few days Francis will let me test the MIT matrix 18s
as he just started to sell theme.
So Yes Iceman I finaly get my hands on some MIT :dance: Would you know how they compare to your's? Did you try the M18s I'm unbelavably curious about this last one.
So I took home some very differend cables sounwise aswell as budget wise
I hope I will sort it out one of these days.
Haven't post anything for a while now. this didn't mean I sat still.....the thing is a on a certain momment I came to a point where nothing sounded good, it was to much or not enough....
So I diceided to ask some advice to my dealer......should ik buy cheaper cable an a better digital source......or keep digital like it is for now an put my energie looking for the best matching cable... (not nececerly the most expensive)
Afther a chat with Francis I didn't really sort it out completly but it gave me peace of mind
I mean he gave me 3 set's of cables an he advised me to take my time let the amp run 24/7 bfour each cable during somthing like 2 weeks the first one to let them run i as they are all brand new an the secound to apreciate them fully. an on the end switch every 2 days an see what I like the most.
The 3 set's I have for the momment.
Transparent: Super music wave:
Superb cable afther it was runned in. It was detailed powerfull an still slightly laid back
Kimber 12CT
I connected them yesterday; It's a verry spacial cable I have to say. An in my system a better match as the select's Being more adgile.
Tha music was more upfront an clean (not more detailed as with the Transârant but more crispy) Transparency is exceptional it's really life like.
But first impression was unfortionally it was taking away the powerfull impression the transparent where giving to my system (to have the same power full effect I had to turn up the volume pretty high an this quicly became to much for me but they are brand new maybe de power impression at lower volume will break in in a few days
But at this point I really like this both cablesTransparant also have a great upgrade plicy witch I think is really cool. Now for the kimber I was kind of impressed how the same compagny can make such a differend sounding cable I have to admid I was not expacting much from those Kimbers after trying the selects an I was nicely surprised
Only thing is it's maybe to upfront an this will gett tyering maybe I hope the next 2weeks will sort that out.
I also took the AH kb10 Back home an I a few days Francis will let me test the MIT matrix 18s
as he just started to sell theme.
So Yes Iceman I finaly get my hands on some MIT :dance: Would you know how they compare to your's? Did you try the M18s I'm unbelavably curious about this last one.
So I took home some very differend cables sounwise aswell as budget wise
I hope I will sort it out one of these days.
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