Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

[Anonymous]

Hi Roby,

I just ordered a Parasound A21. So yes I did stick to 2 channel power amp, but did not go for integrated. Combination of trying to start slow(-ish🙂), not wanting to spend too much money straight away (was also looking at McIntosh or example) since actually auditioning is really a challenge here in Perth.

Given you are in NL (and I suspect in Brabant or Limburg, not sure if you would like to reveal that online😛)), have you ever thought of checking with Stassen in Venlo? Just purely based on what I saw on their website they seem pretty big and dooing auite a lot of decent stuff too (for example they have 21 audition rooms apparently!)

I'll try to remember to return here once I have my new amp and have it connected etc...

Meanwhile feel free to PM me (if that is an option on this website at all - haven't looked at that so far😛) 🙂

Groetjes,

Pete

 

[CnoEvil]

Ooooohhh another M6i owner will be onboard soon. 🙂

Not necessarily! :shifty:

The AMS 35i is an addiction. >)

 

[Roby]

have you ever thought of checking with Stassen in Venlo? Just purely based on what I saw on their website they seem pretty big and dooing auite a lot of decent stuff too (for example they have 21 audition rooms apparently!)

You mean tis one

http://www.stassen.nl/

They have a lot of stuff but not always whay I'm looking for.... no AMS, no Sugden....

Beside I can have better deals here in belgium (Brussels where I live)

Hey let me know how it go's with the Parasound gear... as you provably saw in one of my preveous posts. I'm quit convinced by the souns quality of some of there products.... It's a shame it's to expensive compared the value in $. An here in you'r provably better of looking to other brands....

 

[Roby]

have you ever thought of checking with Stassen in Venlo? Just purely based on what I saw on their website they seem pretty big and dooing auite a lot of decent stuff too (for example they have 21 audition rooms apparently!)

You mean tis one

http://www.stassen.nl/

They have a lot of stuff but not always whay I'm looking for.... no AMS, no Sugden....

Beside I can have better deals here in belgium (Brussels where I live)

Hey let me know how it go's with the Parasound gear... as you provably saw in one of my preveous posts. I'm quit convinced by the souns quality of some of there products.... It's a shame it's to expensive compared the value in $. An here in you'r provably better of looking to other brands....

 

[Roby]

have you ever thought of checking with Stassen in Venlo? Just purely based on what I saw on their website they seem pretty big and dooing auite a lot of decent stuff too (for example they have 21 audition rooms apparently!)

You mean tis one

http://www.stassen.nl/

They have a lot of stuff but not always whay I'm looking for.... no AMS, no Sugden....

Beside I can have better deals here in belgium (Brussels where I live)

Hey let me know how it go's with the Parasound gear... as you provably saw in one of my preveous posts. I'm quit convinced by the souns quality of some of there products.... It's a shame it's to expensive compared the value in $. An here in you'r provably better of looking to other brands....

 

[Roby]

sorry something went wrong....

 

[acalex]

Ooooohhh another M6i owner will be onboard soon. 🙂

Not necessarily! :shifty: The AMS 35i is an addiction. >)

:wall: :cheer: :cheers:

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I will let you know what I think of the Parasound once I got it.. Should arrive at my 'dealer' 🙂 sometime next week. Then just a matter of picking it up ...

Oh and yes, that's the place I was referring to🙂

Meanwhile still trying to find out about sending PM's .. cannot seem to find it .. :-(

Cheers,

Pete

 

[Roby]

So Saturday I had my demo of the Sugden IA-4 with Acalex.

An like usual I'm a bit later to write down my finding as him...sorry 😳

First of all the shop is in the center of Antwerp…an I was expecting a bit of a HI-fi supermarket looking to their web-site, not at all the shop was kind of small but was full of gear.

So like mentioned all the gear was already set up like asked by the phone The IA-4 was warmed up cdp was the same as mine an connected to 683 as I have at home….

First of all we tried some cd’s like usual. First impression for me was this sound really good…An this means it is pretty close to the sound I will get at home for 2 or 3years while I save the money for my speaker upgrade. Witch will be pretty good considering the price of my speakers.

Even if I thought this was really nice for the speakers, but soon we both thought there was something missing (kind of the feeling even if it was good that the music an voice was hide behind big curtains.), an asked to connect D 18 first.

An yes this was immediately a world of difference There was the voice, warmed, bass an detail. This was for me the kind of sound I’m after even if on some tracks I think it was slightly to airy. But this was noticeable but not really disturbing.

The Metallic drum sound on a track Acalex was talking about well I didn’t really notice that But this is probably because he knows this track really well so he know’ s how it is supposed to sound I heard the track for the first time I think…

So I was convinced of the harmony between Sugden an Proarc. Then We Tried a few vinyl’s which for me was even mor emotional an warm…We tried this on a Gyrodec costing around 2500€ (so same price as the performance) the phono stage was a trichord costing around 550€ MC as the integrated phono stage is a MM on the IA-4 (this would be fine for me as I’m planning to by thr performance which have a MM cardridge standard). As we still had the feeling speakers where the weakest link, I asked to connect the D28 like the dealer suggested on the phone. Bummer He didn’t have theme in the shop L…. So we continue the deme with the D18 which to be honest where already amazing….

The dealer asked me to contact him in the beginning of next month to try out the IA-4 on D28 an D40 with a VPI scout II TT

So to be completely honest this was a great demo Coming to the sound I’m after. Although I have the feeling the AMS 35i have more detail, punch an bass… Let just say without going to far in detail the AMS have that little more in every department.

But hey let’s not go over the top before hearing the IA-4 on other speakers.

An it’s a shame we can’t compare both amps next to each other…

So my Personal conclusion is:

This is a great amp I will consider for 1 it’s 2000€ cheaper than the AMS an it have a build in phono stage.

An sonically it was what I’m after an it’s not mil’s away from the AMS it’s actually pretty dam close…But it’s not on the top of my list, that will still be the AMS at this moment.

A reason:

Well let’s say that the dealer in Antwerp was nice, But didn’t really want to cut a deal.

Well not exactly he want to cut a deal if I buy the package TT, amp, but he is not selling clear audio which is on the top of my list L

So if he don’t make a good deal I’m better of buying an AMS because the deals I have on the AMS is close to the retail price of the IA-4.

But if I can get the same kind of deal on the IA-4 …it’s another story.

Because;

Its than 1 it’s considerably cheaper (around 1500€)

An it have a built in phono stage which will also save me around 700€.

An even if I still think the AMS is a better amp, the IA-4 is certainly really close….

So this was one of the productive day’s in my sound hunting J. !!!GREAT AMp!!!!

Next writing will be for next week I have a demo Saturday of the Perreaux 150/250i Eloquance…. I hope you’re in Acalex…

Grtz

 

[Roby]

I was just thinking about my several demo's

an I'm thinking it's really hard to get a far comparasion....I mean let say the ams i always listened to it on speakers costing at least 6000€ never on speakers of 3000€ an the m6i we also tested speakers of 11000€ an it was great....

Well any way all my demo's where nice an learnfull but only a few where really fair testing different amps on the same speakers with same cables etc

The sugden was great made me want to relax an listen...that's what we are afther I guess, no?

I hope one way of an other I can get a fair demo between the sugden an the ams...

Becaus I love the music, an how more I think about it, the more I think in the budget I'm prepared to spend it would be stupid to make a choice I regret to save 1000€ but also overspend them an gain nothing....

Hmm I thing I'm going to try to have a sugden shiped to my dealer in Brussels so I can test the amps on the same speakers

How will the AMS perform on Proarc.....will it be as laid back or less?

:?

 

[acalex]

I was just thinking about my several demo's

an I'm thinking it's really hard to get a far comparasion....I mean let say the ams i always listened to it on speakers costing at least 6000€ never on speakers of 3000€ an the m6i we also tested speakers of 11000€ an it was great....

Well any way all my demo's where nice an learnfull but only a few where really fair testing different amps on the same speakers with same cables etc

The sugden was great made me want to relax an listen...that's what we are afther I guess, no?

I hope one way of an other I can get a fair demo between the sugden an the ams...

Becaus I love the music, an how more I think about it, the more I think in the budget I'm prepared to spend it would be stupid to make a choice I regret to save 1000€ but also overspend them an gain nothing....

Hmm I thing I'm going to try to have a sugden shiped to my dealer in Brussels so I can test the amps on the same speakers

How will the AMS perform on Proarc.....will it be as laid back or less?

:?

Nice read...well I knew already everything.

As you said...indeed the AMS is better a bit everywhere but I want to stress the speakers point...you never heard the AMS connected to something costing less than 9k eur...the proac D18 was 1/3 of the price and IMO (the dealer also agreed) was the weakest link in the combo. D28 might be able to give more justice to the Sudgen which remains a stunning amp.

Please dont ask to get the Sudgen shipped to Brussels otherwise I will never get the AMS in Antwerp :rofl:

Let me get the AMS home demo and we can do a full comparison then 🙂

 

[CnoEvil]

How will the AMS perform on Proarc.....will it be as laid back or less?

:?

The AMS 35i is one of the most dynamic amps that I've heard, which is due to its lightening transient response......this is a common trait of Class A. So to answer your question - less laid back.

You are right about two things.

Firstly, it is very hard to compare amps in different rooms and with different source/speakers...though (imo), a better amp driving cheaper speakers can sound better than a cheaper amp driving speakers that it can't quite manage. Although ones' instinct is often correct when assessing these things.

Secondly, if your budget stretches to the amp that you prefer, you may well not be happy with second best.

Do you think the Sugden has blown the M6i out of the water?.....or put another way, is the difference between the M6i & Sugden greater than the difference between the Sugden & 35i? Where do you think the sweetspot lies, when considering how much performance you are getting for your money?

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

an I'm thinking it's really hard to get a far comparasion....I mean let say the ams i always listened to it on speakers costing at least 6000€ never on speakers of 3000€ an the m6i we also tested speakers of 11000€ an it was great....

As you said...indeed the AMS is better a bit everywhere but I want to stress the speakers point...you never heard the AMS connected to something costing less than 9k eur...the proac D18 was 1/3 of the price and IMO (the dealer also agreed) was the weakest link in the combo. D28 might be able to give more justice to the Sudgen which remains a stunning amp.

I think you guys put too much trust in pricing.

 

[acalex]

an I'm thinking it's really hard to get a far comparasion....I mean let say the ams i always listened to it on speakers costing at least 6000€ never on speakers of 3000€ an the m6i we also tested speakers of 11000€ an it was great....

As you said...indeed the AMS is better a bit everywhere but I want to stress the speakers point...you never heard the AMS connected to something costing less than 9k eur...the proac D18 was 1/3 of the price and IMO (the dealer also agreed) was the weakest link in the combo. D28 might be able to give more justice to the Sudgen which remains a stunning amp.

I think you guys put too much trust in pricing.

I think we got too used to listen to expensive stuff :wall:

 

[WishTree]

You mean tis one

http://www.stassen.nl/

They have a lot of stuff but not always whay I'm looking for.... no AMS, no Sugden....

Been there. It is good for a starting point but since you have been to many auditions already (Yes, I read most of the thread), I would say skip it. They are very pushy about some of their preferred brands.

Beside I can have better deals here in belgium (Brussels where I live)

Better Deal is the key. If there is a 1000 Euro chepaer deal on your favourite non reachable amp, then it could change the entire decision making 🙂

May be you have already answered but since I could not find the answer, I will ask again. You currently have B&W 683 speakers and you want to upgrade the amp right now. Two years from now, you will upgrade the speakers. Right?

If this is right, you have already mentioned few times that a specific combination of a particular Amplifier and a particular Speaker has given the desired results.

I am not too sure how the short-listing of amplifier is going to work out if the future upgrade of the speakers are not known. Even let us say, you have figured the speakers that you would upgrade in two years time (it looks like B&W 804D?), I am not very sure that this upgrade path will stay intact with two year time erosion.

I am not trying to add more ambiguity but only to clear it, if possible.

I would say ideally Amp and speaker change should be done together or flexible for a regular upgrade (as that is fun too - I do that - I enjoy it - I only wish I don't stay on second floor with out the lift 😉 )

It looks like you are more or less sold on MF amplification where as MF6i has done exactly opposite to me. I moved away from MF in the less than 3K range as they were too analytical to me.

Parasound (Halo A21) - I had two of them in mono mode for Front channels along with (Halo A23) for center. When I used them in the trigger mode, they tripped the MCB in our home! Extremely massive and powerful sound - very clean, detailed but a little detached and slightly slower I would say

Pathos Inpol2 - Very sweet midrange, extremely musical. Big heater and power consumption shoots up to sky. not fast enough.

Marantz PM-11S1 - Analytical, clinical, detailed

Marantz PM- Pearl - Musical, silky smooth upper end, fast. If there is a complaint then not punchy enough

Classe CAP -2100 - Recent acquition. I am surprised that Classe is missed in your selection process given the B&W brotherhood. Amazingly fast, smooth, extremely musical. Since this is my new acquistion, it is but natural that I am all ga ga about it but it also gives me a little insight to compare with my previous amp experiences!!

I heard the CA-2200 is even better. I do not have space for such large amplfiers nor into pre & power boxes any more. But a decent pre-amp along with CA-2200 is so ideal, I would say, if CAP-2100 does not rock your boat.

All the best for your hunt and will be reading this thread with interest!

 

[acalex]

Ehy Wish, you are also from Brussels? Or near by? You know any place where we can hear the Inpol2?

 

[Macspur]

Hi Roby,

I would expect the MF M6i to out perform the Naim XS... the Supernait would be a fairer comparison.

Have you heard the Sugden Masterclass yet?

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Roby,

I would expect the MF M6i to out perform the Naim XS... the Supernait would be a fairer comparison.

Have you heard the Sugden Masterclass yet?

Cheers

Mac

Mac, he described it on the previous page (post N0.8 and 9).

 

[acalex]

The AMS 35i is one of the most dynamic amps that I've heard, which is due to its lightening transient response......this is a common trait of Class A. So to answer your question - less laid back.

....

What is a transient response? Thanks!

 

[acalex]

Rob, maybe we can throw the Classe CA2300 in the list...easily accessible at NM in Brussels 🙂

 

[WishTree]

Rob, maybe we can throw the Classe CA2300 in the list...easily accessible at NM in Brussels 🙂

This is the pic of my setup (just to convince you enough to audition the Classe Gear 😉 )

 

[WishTree]

Ehy Wish, you are also from Brussels? Or near by? You know any place where we can hear the Inpol2?

Unfortunately not 🙁 I am from Germany - Dusseldorf (Venlo is a quick drive away). I have already sold the Inpol2. The dealer whom I bought it from is already 350 Km from here so even further from you. I am not too sure how I can be of help here but if you wish I can pass over my Pathos dealer contact information.

 

[acalex]

Rob, maybe we can throw the Classe CA2300 in the list...easily accessible at NM in Brussels 🙂

This is the pic of my setup (just to convince you enough to audition the Classe Gear 😉 )

We are really easily convinced! 🙂

Plus the delaer stocking the Classe amplifiers is in Brussels! :dance:

Really nice setup btw

 

[acalex]

Ehy Wish, you are also from Brussels? Or near by? You know any place where we can hear the Inpol2?

Unfortunately not 🙁 I am from Germany - Dusseldorf (Venlo is a quick drive away). I have already sold the Inpol2. The dealer whom I bought it from is already 350 Km from here so even further from you. I am not too sure how I can be of help here but if you wish I can pass over my Pathos dealer contact information.

Pity! Can I ask you why you got rid of the Inpol2? Pity the pics on your thread are not anymore accessible...

 

[paradiziac]

Your first post on the thread:

My dealer say's it's better to start with the amp it's cheaper. Upgrading my 683's would be way more expensive....(803's)

So I will start to chage my nad 356 I have the feeling it misses a bit of power an exitement an it loses grip on passages with charged instrumentals (Led zep, Deep purple....) Vocals sounds great (Vaya condios...).

:?

So much for the initial advice that a speaker upgrade would be way too expensive!

I was reading a review of the 683 and it says they're fantastic speakers for the price, but the one (small) weakness mentioned was that they aren't the most exciting speaker.

The fact that you mentioned exactly this weakness in your first post suggests to me that you should pay a bit more attention to the speaker.

Perhaps there are other speakers that might offer a different kind of presentation that's simply more to your taste (rather than objectively "better"). Like Poldo said, Tannoys...or something fast and rhythmic like Neats, or Totems...

Just a thought...

P.S. I've heard the Masterclass, love it, just don't think it's the amp I'd consider first unless I had a spare £10K for the rest of the system to do it justice 😉