Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

[Roby]

So next hearing is sceduled for wensday.

To compare the M6i to the Niam niat xs. As I was so pleased last time with the MF I'm not shore what to expect.

Thing is I'm a bit afraid my mind is already set.

An as everything goes as planned for the end of June I will be the owner of.

m6i
M1 click
M1 vinyl
CA concept TT

This of course if I prefer the M6i against the Niam Niat xs

I'm also planning to hear out the M6pre & M6prx against the M6i see if there is a big difference (worthe the money)

Any way if anyone have a better sugestion for the money I'm planning to spend...

I really want to be shore this time (I'm a bit afraid to make a huge mistake)

Next I'm thinking upgrading the speakers afther a while Anyone have sugestion's to paire with this kind of set up?

I was planning to spend arround 3000 a 4000 €

Thanks for the tip's

 

[Helmut80]

so jealous!

I'd be very surprised if you prefer the Naim.

 

[El Hefe]

so jealous!

I'd be very surprised if you prefer the Naim.

I concur to this....

Will reserve my comments on the combo Pre and PRX though...as the Roby is already getting confused with all the demo-ing hehehhe

Trust your ears Roby...not your wallet....

 

[El Hefe]

Roby,

Before you opurchase the CLiC, please read my review. Its a superb unit but if you already have your music in Apple Lossless format, it cannot be played by CLiC even the file extension is .m4a.

I had to convert all my Apple Lossless files into 320 mbp MP3 files. It can play FLAC with no issues.

It also does not have any iphone/ipad app to control it.

Just a note in case you are planning to use the CLiC around an Apple based music collection.

 

[Helmut80]

El Hefe, have you had a chance to compare the M6i pre/power combo to the M6 500i?

 

[acalex]

As I said Roby, let's go to this shop and let's ask the guy to suggest something for you!

 

[Roby]

Mmm,

Thanks Elhefe I didn't know that. Might think about it.

All my digital music is on mac :-(

The plan was to pas the cd true the click an have a syteamer in the mean time.

 

[Helmut80]

just get a Mac mini for music duties

 

[Roby]

Why?

The problem will remain It doesn't change the format of the files...

Or is ther a work arround with the mini mac?

 

[Roby]

So today I had my demo of the Naim xs VS MF m6i.

First I started with the M6i first track was Peter Gabriel & Kate Bush: Don't give up.

Sat down calmly an I was just enjoying the music, Guess I had a bit a strange feeling trying to dig up the feeling's of a few weeks ago.

Then I switched to the Naim With the same track.

First wow I was impressed

This maybe because I entered the dealer's my mind all set.....(I know big mistake)

An I didn't expect much of the Naim.

First it was really wavy (musical) an bag's of control on the bas department. Have to admit it was really enjoyable.

Did this test with testing in the first place with the tracks that convinced me on the M6i last time.

So after this one I listened to

Red hot chili peppers: Other side an Scare tissue

Dire Strait's: Money for nothing

Same constatation Musically the Naim really excel’s an the bass is super controlled. But After a while listening.

I start to notice that That's all you get.

I mean All you get is control an wavy musical soundstage but for that you have to give a way a lot of entertainment an punchy fun but must important the Airiness an openness of the M6i an for me the most important strength the MF have against the Naim was the detail where the M6i wins without any question.

So I was almost convinced The M6i would win it for today (still I had a slight doubt).

I listened to a couple of tracks I listen to a lot at home.

I already mentioned theme in my first impressions of the M6I.

Katie Melau

LED ZEP

.....

Than next to my 683's there where a pair of 804's positioned from a previous demo. As my dealer let me play with everything I decided to try them out (maybe I shouldn’t have I'm shore some of you know what I mean ;-)).

I try a couple of track's now by each switch the M6i win's more an more in detail, punch, openness, excitement an even control but in a way that it's not over controlled an it stay’s fun.

So Imo I think I can listen a longer time to the M6i an enjoying it more without ever getting tired.

I think The Naim does an excellent job Musically but in the long run after 2.5 hours listening I think the Naim is just to controlled an misses a bit of openness an precession (if I could put an image on it it’s maybe like ‘perfection in a cage’). I agree when some people say Musically it give you a slight warmer sound. But for me that was just not enough.

But know it is subjective an really a question of taste. Certainly with those to amps who are both excelling amps but they sound so different.

Certainly The Naim Have a really particular colorful sound.

So if you are considering those 2 amps I think This review might not help you because they are so different

Here taste is the major factor (An keep in mind if you’re struggling choosing, how better the speaker how clearer the differences are pointed out but that’s obvious). If you have the occasion go for a demo on this products it's really worth it.

On the end The dealer looked at the cd's

He wanted me to listen again (I was already convinced the M6i was a better amp for my taste) to:

Sela Sue: Crazy World & White stripes: Seven nation army

Because in his opinion those a really good demo song's (testing song’s).

An yes it was mind blowing as I can say I noticed some detail's an Crazy word I never noticed before (oké this was on the 804's) Bothe song's have great bass an rhythmic an sounded clean detailed an exciting. Btw on Seven nation army it's the first time I heard my dealer humming with a song, an he is used to a lot ;-).

No doubt the M6i is an astonishing amp for the money.

Now I Still want to compare the M6i to the combo M6 pre&prx before I make a decision See If it's worth the additional 1500€ as I don't have to buy the M1-VINYL any more in that case.

But as he don't have it in stock he will ask the retailer to send it over an call me for the demo.

I'm really curious....

Will give my impressions as well in time ;-)

 

[Helmut80]

As always, thanks for posting your impressions.

M6 pre/power is only an additional €1500? I thought that combo was more expensive than the M6 500i?

Also, any reason why you did not use Supernait as comparison (as that is more or less M6i price iirc)?

 

[CnoEvil]

Roby, another interesting review.

I agree with Helmut - it is important that you compare amps of a similar price, so the Supernait would have been a fairer comparison....though the Naim "house sound" will be similar.

The MF M6 Pre/Power has a list price of £5k which is nearly £2.5K dearer, so if you are getting it at €1500, that's a great price and probably worth it.....though (as Helmut says) it brings it into competition with the M6 500i, which also should also be heard.

At its full price of around £5k, it goes head to head with some serious competition, which in turn need to be checked out.

As you look to spend extra money, you also need to make sure it wouldn't be better spent on source/speakers....it's all a delicate balancing act.

Can you give an idea of your budget, as different price levels change what brands may be recommended (eg. Pathos, Acoustic Research,MF AMS and Electrcompaniet etc)

 

[acalex]

Roby, another interesting review. I agree with Helmut - it is important that you compare amps of a similar price, so the Supernait would have been a fairer comparison....though the Naim "house sound" will be similar. The MF M6 Pre/Power has a list price of £5k which is nearly £2.5K dearer, so if you are getting it at €1500, that's a great price and probably worth it.....though (as Helmut says) it brings it into competition with the M6 500i, which also should also be heard. At its full price of around £5k, it goes head to head with some serious competition, which in turn need to be checked out. As you look to spend extra money, you also need to make sure it wouldn't be better spent on source/speakers....it's all a delicate balancing act. Can you give an idea of your budget, as different price levels change what brands may be recommended (eg. Pathos, Acoustic Research,MF AMS and Electrcompaniet etc)

Like the AMS35i that you already heard Roby

 

[Sliced Bread]

You might want to listen to amps (and sources) from Electrocompaniet.

They have an absolutely beautiful house sound.

 

[Roby]

So I didn't try the Superniat an this is because when I was looking to upgrade my system the combo Niat cd an Niat xs

are around the same price as the combo M6i an M6cd. So yesterday I didn't really thought about it....

But anyway I think I had a pretty good impression of the Naim sound (although there was one negative point I noticed an that I didn’t mention, that’s there was a strong sss sound present but I doubt this would have been better on the Superniat).

A bout the price well ruffly taken

The combo M6i = 2400€ + M1 ViNL 900€ (witch I need) so that make around 3300€

The combo prx &pre 1850+2950= 4800€ and it already have a phono stage

M6500i is about 4500€ an have no phono stage so that makes it the most expensive solution.

My budget will be between 5500€ at the moment, can also be stretched a bit as I'm not in a hurry (but the amp is the most important because I have a Buyer for my nad around June)

So at first I thought I change the cd player as well. Now I changed my mind an think I keep the CA for the moment an play it true a decent Dac or maybe the clic....

So like I mentioned in a previous post.

Basically I was thinking

Purchase

M6i 2400

M1 ViNL 900€

Concept TT 1100€

clic 1125€

Witch makes a ruff 5200€ with cables included

Let’s say it’s an changeable list, I can play inside the list, let say I don't buy the Clic an do it later or keep my current TT an buy the concept later or just buy a Dac for the cd player.... As I don’t really need a streamer for the moment.

(Speakers will change sooner in that case)

Just think of it as a basic idea

Because if I think the prx&pre combo is really worth it I will have to move some thinks to a later purchase.

The idea is also to change the speakers in 2 years. Until then the 683's will do the job.

As I heard the M6i on the 804 I'm convinced this will be the next needed step. But I was planning to spend around 3 at 4000€ on that top's an I was planning to check out other brands for this because the 804 sounded sweet an super detailed but are around 7000€

An I have to stop somewhere.... (as I have also some construction works starting in my apartment this summer an budget is already calculated but you never know)

An if I take the M6i I can buy new speakers sooner so that the amp comes to his right J

Also I’m thinking if I buy the M6i I can ad the M6pwr afterwards to improve my system (but have to check if it’s worth it of course)

Feel free for anny sugestions or improvement's ;-)

 

[Roby]

Advice arround speakers will also be really helpfull.

This can also be stand mound's....

Even if this is not for an imidiate purchase but than I can already ask for a demo an have an idea what to go for.... An it might be helpfull with the final amp choice

An as you can imagin I like the sound of B&W

Already hed a few demo's on my nad with

Pro arc: D18 & Vienna acoustic Beethoven baby: witch where nice but sounded really different not shure witch I really prefered during that demo.

What I can tell is that the VA sounded cleaner (more neutral)

Also heard a pair of Apertura Armonia during that demo, wich I diddn't like to havy an sounded lifless an flat on rock an electronics but great on havy jazz

Thanks

 

[El Hefe]

So I didn't try the Superniat an this is because when I was looking to upgrade my system the combo Niat cd an Niat xs

are around the same price as the combo M6i an M6cd. So yesterday I didn't really thought about it....

But anyway I think I had a pretty good impression of the Naim sound (although there was one negative point I noticed an that I didn’t mention, that’s there was a strong sss sound present but I doubt this would have been better on the Superniat).

A bout the price well ruffly taken

The combo M6i = 2400€ + M1 ViNL 900€ (witch I need) so that make around 3300€

The combo prx &pre 1850+2950= 4800€ and it already have a phono stage

M6500i is about 4500€ an have no phono stage so that makes it the most expensive solution.

My budget will be between 5500€ at the moment, can also be stretched a bit as I'm not in a hurry (but the amp is the most important because I have a Buyer for my nad around June)

So at first I thought I change the cd player as well. Now I changed my mind an think I keep the CA for the moment an play it true a decent Dac or maybe the clic....

So like I mentioned in a previous post.

Basically I was thinking

Purchase

M6i 2400

M1 ViNL 900€

Concept TT 1100€

clic 1125€

Witch makes a ruff 5200€ with cables included

Let’s say it’s an changeable list, I can play inside the list, let say I don't buy the Clic an do it later or keep my current TT an buy the concept later or just buy a Dac for the cd player.... As I don’t really need a streamer for the moment.

(Speakers will change sooner in that case)

Just think of it as a basic idea

Because if I think the prx&pre combo is really worth it I will have to move some thinks to a later purchase.

The idea is also to change the speakers in 2 years. Until then the 683's will do the job.

As I heard the M6i on the 804 I'm convinced this will be the next needed step. But I was planning to spend around 3 at 4000€ on that top's an I was planning to check out other brands for this because the 804 sounded sweet an super detailed but are around 7000€

An I have to stop somewhere.... (as I have also some construction works starting in my apartment this summer an budget is already calculated but you never know)

An if I take the M6i I can buy new speakers sooner so that the amp comes to his right J

Also I’m thinking if I buy the M6i I can ad the M6pwr afterwards to improve my system (but have to check if it’s worth it of course)

Feel free for anny sugestions or improvement's ;-)

Roby,

First of all, I admire your patience in choosing the right hifi kit. And further impress that you are willing to share your experience in your journey as well.

On the options you mentioned above, I think you have a good grip of the various amps that you have listened to and I have a feeling that you are inclined towards the M6i. And now its just a matter of you asking yourself - 'hhhhmmmm what if I spend another 1500 euro on the pre+prx, will I get a better sound?' The only way to find out is to have a listen to the pre+prx. In my earlier post, I mentioned that I would reserve my words on the pre+prx as I have demo-ed it as well. And you know what I chose in the end.

What I did was to compare M3i to M6i and to Pre+PRX. And what I found that the extra money to spend on M6i over the M3i was well worth it with significant improvement on SQ....but unfortunately (or maybe it was fortunate to wallet ) that I could not justify to myself to spend even more on Pre+PRX as I could not hear much different in SQ compared to M6i.

But as I said, please have a listen first on the pre+prx.

On phono stage, having the M1 ViNYL will offer you more options to match the cartridge on your Concept TT. Are you upgarding the cartridge from MM to MC on your purchase? I would not choose my amp just because the amp has a built in phono stage. If you want to do that, then I suggest you have to listen to the Concept TT played through the bulit in phono stage on M6 Pre+PRX. Basically, if you plan to heavily use your Concept TT, then your demo should include listening to vinyl via the built in phono stage.

Good luck...sorry for the late feedback. I am on one my travels again and have just landed in Paris last night and having a brain freeze due to the -8 celcius temperature

 

[acalex]

Roby as usual, some feedbacks from me.

Would it be worth to spend over 1000 eur on the Clic at this stage? Do not think so...I strongly suggest you (and this is what I did also) to buy an inexpensive streaming solution now and start building from there. This would give you much more flexibility to upgrade in the future if you need, with a really small loss. Something like the SB touch fits perfectly the bill...great SQ for money, reads apple files, and could be controlled through iphone/ipad/android phone.

You are more than welcome this weekend to come and listen to the Jadis with SBT. If you use a LOT the vinyl, maybe it would be a good idea saving this 1k to upgrade from the Concept to the Performance which my dealers said is the best deal money/performance. Btw, that Saturday you will also hear the difference between the Concept and Performance on the AMS35 and the Jadis.

I also discard the idea of having a separata pre+pwr at this stage...as probably you won't have a great step up in SQ given the money. Plus you could always add a power amp at a later stage even if you take the M6i, right?

Plus if you buy anything from the shop in Antwerp and decide to upgrade at a later stage, he would take back the old one and give you the new one for the difference. Something to keep in mind...you could also have any unit in stock as an home trial for 30 days...which I strongly suggest you to do.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey I have just had exactly the same problem. What amp to drive my BW 683s.

I started with a Yamaha Rx 797 that I had at the time I bought the 683s. It was good when it was loud but sounded very flat at normal listening levels and was lacking in a few other areas.

and so the search began.

I originally wanted an integrated amp narrowed my search to what I couls easily get my hands on and test in my own system at home.

Things that were important for me were big expansive soundstage (or as big as I could afford based on the limited budget given to me by my wife), good imaging, clear clean sound, not too clinical I wanted to feel the music not just hear it.

I had eliminated seperates based on what I decided was a combination of lack of space, wanting to keep it simple and budget.

I narrowed it down to the following

Perreaux Eloquence 150

Perreaux Eloquence 250

Plinius 9200

Naim xs

Harmon Kardon 990

The Harmon Kardon although it might seem silly I eliminated based on online amatuer reviews which although generally positive hardly ever mentioned the soundstage and the experience with the dealer wasn't that good. I don't like it when they start ripping on their competitors and their products. Just tell me why I should buy yours and set it up so I can listen to it/

Perreaux 250 = out couldn't convince the wife to let us spend the extra

Plinius 9200 took it home to test = the reviews about it on line are pretty bang on. It is a really really good amp and would have been top 2 out of my selected options.

Naim Xs = never got to test dealer wasn't that helpful and didn't pick up on the fact that unlike you I am not patient when it comes to this stuff (my hat goes off to you on that one)

Perreaux 150 - probably the one I would have ended up with as the more I listened the better it got - this is a beautiful amp and had everything I was looking for good soundstage, fantastic imaging, clean clear sound. Interestingly for me and the wife was the ability to listen to it really loud but still have a conversation at normal speaking volume. The Plinius had all these qualities too but I preferred the Perreaux it just seemed a little more refined.

I ended up with none of the above. I went into a second hand Hifi store which is apparantly a hidden gem where I live for HiFi gear run by a guy whose customers seem more like friends than customers.

Anyway I walked out with a 20 year old perraux power amp (300w per channel) and a Mclaren 604 preamp that look about 25-30 years old. I had to pay for them but if I wasn't happy I could bring them back next week and get a cash refund - so sweet. (I know Iknow the total opposite of what I set out looking for)

I set them up let turned them on and left them on for about an hour while I listened to the Plinius.....

Holy Crap it was a different world. I could not believe my ears. the most beautiful clear sound, Massive soundstage. The imaging was probably not quite as good as the Perreaux 150 but more than good enough. The BW 683s sound far better than I had ever thought possible.

It is 2am as I am writing this, I should be in bed but I just can't stop listening to them.

My advice The BWs need more power than what you are thinking. They will sound good with most integrateds with enough power to run them but if I were you I woukd start looking for a second hand quality power and preamp that fits your budget and my pick is that like me you'll move from the 683s sounding good to freaken incredible.

and all this was less than half what I would have had to pay for the perreaux 150 or the plinius and I was getting a stunning deal on both of those.

good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Hey I have just had exactly the same problem. What amp to drive my BW 683s.

I started with a Yamaha Rx 797 that I had at the time I bought the 683s. It was good when it was loud but sounded very flat at normal listening levels and was lacking in a few other areas.

and so the search began.

I originally wanted an integrated amp narrowed my search to what I couls easily get my hands on and test in my own system at home.

Things that were important for me were big expansive soundstage (or as big as I could afford based on the limited budget given to me by my wife), good imaging, clear clean sound, not too clinical I wanted to feel the music not just hear it.

I had eliminated seperates based on what I decided was a combination of lack of space, wanting to keep it simple and budget.

I narrowed it down to the following

Perreaux Eloquence 150

Perreaux Eloquence 250

Plinius 9200

Naim xs

Harmon Kardon 990

The Harmon Kardon although it might seem silly I eliminated based on online amatuer reviews which although generally positive hardly ever mentioned the soundstage and the experience with the dealer wasn't that good. I don't like it when they start ripping on their competitors and their products. Just tell me why I should buy yours and set it up so I can listen to it/

Perreaux 250 = out couldn't convince the wife to let us spend the extra

Plinius 9200 took it home to test = the reviews about it on line are pretty bang on. It is a really really good amp and would have been top 2 out of my selected options.

Naim Xs = never got to test dealer wasn't that helpful and didn't pick up on the fact that unlike you I am not patient when it comes to this stuff (my hat goes off to you on that one)

Perreaux 150 - probably the one I would have ended up with as the more I listened the better it got - this is a beautiful amp and had everything I was looking for good soundstage, fantastic imaging, clean clear sound. Interestingly for me and the wife was the ability to listen to it really loud but still have a conversation at normal speaking volume. The Plinius had all these qualities too but I preferred the Perreaux it just seemed a little more refined.

I ended up with none of the above. I went into a second hand Hifi store which is apparantly a hidden gem where I live for HiFi gear run by a guy whose customers seem more like friends than customers.

Anyway I walked out with a 20 year old perraux power amp (300w per channel) and a Mclaren 604 preamp that look about 25-30 years old. I had to pay for them but if I wasn't happy I could bring them back next week and get a cash refund - so sweet. (I know Iknow the total opposite of what I set out looking for)

I set them up let turned them on and left them on for about an hour while I listened to the Plinius.....

Holy Crap it was a different world. I could not believe my ears. the most beautiful clear sound, Massive soundstage. The imaging was probably not quite as good as the Perreaux 150 but more than good enough. The BW 683s sound far better than I had ever thought possible.

It is 2am as I am writing this, I should be in bed but I just can't stop listening to them.

My advice The BWs need more power than what you are thinking. They will sound good with most integrateds with enough power to run them but if I were you I woukd start looking for a second hand quality power and preamp that fits your budget and my pick is that like me you'll move from the 683s sounding good to freaken incredible.

and all this was less than half what I would have had to pay for the perreaux 150 or the plinius and I was getting a stunning deal on both of those.

good luck

 

[Potts]

I'm running a Nait XS with my 683's. Was only till I picked up a Rega DAC a couple of weeks ago that's made me appreciate both the Nait XS and 683's. I'm a big fan of the B&W sound so like suggested, I'm keen on sticking with them until I win the the lottery and can upgrade to the 800 series.

On the whole though I'm really happy with my system and until higher res files become more widely available, I can't see myself upgrading for a long time.

 

[CnoEvil]

There is great advice being given on this thread from both ends of spectrum.....ie. Those that have gone through it with the MF kit and come out the other side; and those that are finding their way through the hi-fidelity maze.

@Acalex
I will be most intrigued to hear how the AMS35i sounds with vinyl (which I've never heard), as well as its match with the SF GMs....and all vs the Jardis. I suspect you will find that as the the TT (and the cables) improve, the sound will improve exponentially.

 

[Helmut80]

A Perreaux paired with 683s? I think I'm going to cry.

 

[acalex]

There is great advice being given on this thread from both ends of spectrum.....ie. Those that have gone through it with the MF kit and come out the other side; and those that are finding their way through the hi-fidelity maze. @Acalex I will be most intrigued to hear how the AMS35i sounds with vinyl (which I've never heard), as well as its match with the SF GMs....and all vs the Jardis. I suspect you will find that as the the TT (and the cables) improve, the sound will improve exponentially.

I am also very excited to hear the whole lot, which will be happening the 3/03 as the delaer is on holidays now. The TT will be the Clearaudio Performance for sure.

In terms of speakers, I tried also the 800 series of B&W but didn't like them that much to be honest. For now on top of my list we have the SF GM...I am very curios to see how these little beauties will perform with the AMS35 and with Vinyl...also a bit afraid as if the sound will completely blow me, it will be an hard call to make my gf accept the MF over the Jadis

 

[CnoEvil]

.

In terms of speakers, I tried also the 800 series of B&W but didn't like them that much to be honest. For now on top of my list we have the SF GM...I am very curios to see how these little beauties will perform with the AMS35 and with Vinyl...also a bit afraid as if the sound will completely blow me, it will be an hard call to make my gf accept the MF over the Jadis

I found that as well, so I think our taste is surprisingly similar.