Musical fidelity M6i or Naim Nait xs to drive my B&W 683

[Roby]

So time for a little insite.

First of all let's just say everything is going way faster as planned, provably to fast. This is the reason I' m hesitating so much.

At this point I'm still waiting my AMS to arrive, an I'm getting impatiant even if I knew I had to wait. An that's provably why I'm looking to other upgrades who where not planed an provably in the first place not needed.

But hey I was patient whith the choice of my amp may now it's hard to stay patiant....

I'm still ussing the Lavardin IS ref, an can't really say it's a bad amp but I still to gentile for me I guess.

Anyway I went to the shop to get the Rega Saturn for a home demo. So compared the cdp (cambridge & Rega)

Ma first impression was that the RS was overal a better player it was smoother than my CA, an had a more tunefull bass.

But on the other hand it also took some punch away on ex the voice on live cd's an kick drums.

Wich I liked on the ca on some passages. So overall I could say tha saturn was a better cdp.

But still I know is a good deal an a better cdp but at first the differce was not that big I could make a blind purccase.

Then I was thinking, the rca I use on the RS is a cheap hama cable, maybe I should give it a try with an AQ rca.

An well I gues people who read what I had to say about the cable madness know I'm not a believer of this. An every system should perform along your taste with mid price cable (personal opinion of cours)

So I'm not saying the AQ is expensive but IMO a good mid class cable.

Any way what I wanted to say, I immidiatly heard a bigger difference between the 2 cdp. Inthe area's where I had the feeling the RS was a bit shy It suddenly performed superbly but kept his smootness an musicality. Beside that on the area's I thought the ca was somtimes to agressive here suddenly it became more tune full an airy.

I will switch a few times between the cdp this week to confirm my findings

So is the RS a better player: yes

Is it worth 3x the price? : I dont think so, on the other hand I also think it's worth i'ts cataloge price (what I mean is I heard a few 2K cdp's an this one is certenly worth it)

Is it worth the price I'm paying for: yes

Will I buy it : not shure

The reason I'm still hesitating

- I didn't had the chance to hear it with the AMS (An m6 cd would maybe have better senergy with my AMS)

- secoundly I't have no xlr output's an no expotable dac (as the m6 cdp par ex)

- thirdly I will pay a good price for a great performer but Will this be only a temporarly upgrade an end up change it anyway to get a player with XLR connection an maybe an exportable dac

So not shure yet what I will do

What I can say is that it is a great player an considering the amp I will be using soon the price is more than justifable.

 

[paradiziac]

Hi Roby,

As you're discovering, cables can make a difference and good cables that make a big difference are scarily expensive.

Just go listen to a few sets of cables at various price points...

And--probably--you'll feel even more confused/crazy... :doh:

 

[acalex]

Roby has the bad habit to be impatient :rofl:

One thing at the time. I would say let the AMS settle in and get used to the sound without changing anything. Anyway you have the SBT to start playing as well.

When you got used to the sound of a new amplifier within your well known environment then you can start thinking what to do next. Trust me...every day I am living with my system I understand better what I want to keep and what I want to change/improve. Your wallet will thank you as well :cheers:

 

[paradiziac]

Roby has the bad habit to be impatient :rofl:

One thing at the time. I would say let the AMS settle in and get used to the sound without changing anything. Anyway you have the SBT to start playing as well.

When you got used to the sound of a new amplifier within your well known environment then you can start thinking what to do next. Trust me...every day I am living with my system I understand better what I want to keep and what I want to change/improve. Your wallet will thank you as well :cheers:

That's better advice than mine!!

 

[Macspur]

Roby,

The Saturn certainly is great value... I had one, only for a short while though... the only reason I changed it was that I found it too slow in reading a disc before being ready to play... and you think you're impatient?!

The Rega was every bit as good as the Naim CD5XS that I changed it for and half the price.

If you can though, hold off before making a decision, so you can try the MF CDP with XLR hooked up to the AMS.

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

My advice would be similar to others above, and mostly consists of DON'Ts.

Don't buy cables, don't buy a CDP, don't get impatient.....UNTIL the 35i arrives. IMO Cables will then be a good idea, but only when you've settled on a source. Also, make sure you hear a good streamer before getting a CDP.

For cables look to Audioquest, Atlas, Cardas and Telurium Q (or Linn Silver if getting a DS).

 

[acalex]

My advice would be similar to others above, and mostly consists of DON'Ts. Don't buy cables, don't buy a CDP, don't get impatient.....UNTIL the 35i arrives. IMO Cables will then be a good idea, but only when you've settled on a source. Also, make sure you hear a good streamer before getting a CDP. For cables look to Audioquest, Atlas, Cardas and Telurium Q (or Linn Silver if getting a DS).

I keep telling him all the aboves but he's :wall:

:cheers:

 

[CnoEvil]

My advice would be similar to others above, and mostly consists of DON'Ts. Don't buy cables, don't buy a CDP, don't get impatient.....UNTIL the 35i arrives. IMO Cables will then be a good idea, but only when you've settled on a source. Also, make sure you hear a good streamer before getting a CDP. For cables look to Audioquest, Atlas, Cardas and Telurium Q (or Linn Silver if getting a DS).

I keep telling him all the aboves but he's :wall:

:cheers:

...and I'm normally the one that challenges people to "push the envelope!"

 

[Macspur]

My advice would be similar to others above, and mostly consists of DON'Ts. Don't buy cables, don't buy a CDP, don't get impatient.....UNTIL the 35i arrives. IMO Cables will then be a good idea, but only when you've settled on a source. Also, make sure you hear a good streamer before getting a CDP. For cables look to Audioquest, Atlas, Cardas and Telurium Q (or Linn Silver if getting a DS).

Cno,

The dealer has suggested I try Audio Quest next... what can I expect from that brand and how will they differ from TQ?

Cheers

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno,

The dealer has suggested I try Audio Quest next... what can I expect from that brand and how will they differ from TQ?

Cheers

Mac

That is a very difficult question!

I heard the brands on different equipment and in different rooms. If I had to pick the bones out of it, I would say that the Audioquest is a little more musical, but a touch less "fast".....but I could be wrong.

I look forward to you telling me.

 

[Roby]

The Rega was every bit as good as the Naim CD5XS that I changed it for and half the price.

True I was thinking about that, the cd5xs is one of the cdp I demoed at this price range (here the catalogue price is similar for both cdp) an I was thinking the satur remind me ofthe presentation of the niam, they are quite similar I tought ;-)

 

[Roby]

IMO Cables will then be a good idea, but only when you've settled on a source. Also, make sure you hear a good streamer before getting a CDP. For cables look to Audioquest, Atlas, Cardas and Telurium Q (or Linn Silver if getting a DS).

I was not planning to go on cable quest.

I just noticed there was already a noticable difference when you connect a 20€ hama & a 75€ AQ cable

On the other hand It was just a reminder as I already noticed it when I did the change a few month's ago on the CA cdp.

but like said in this tread or in an other we get used quite quickly to some upgrades we do.....

 

[Neuphonix]

I would say, STOP! :hand:

Don't buy anything else until you get the AMS & then STOP :hand: again. Speakers come next. Stay focused on the the things that will make the biggest difference & then once these are in place you can fine tune with cables etc.

Its hard to stay patient, as you know I learnt the hard way. Fortunately my dealer was happy to let me come back & spend more money with him :doh:

I've been amazed at the patience that both you have shown with all your comparisons & testing. Don't fritter away your speaker funds with unessesary purchases. Once you make up your mind that you want to buy them they will come to you quicker than you think. Do you think that you will get a good resale on your old B&Ws?

 

[Roby]

Well sthe solution came.

Dealer called me yesterday thhe cdp was sold while I had it at home so I'm going to bring it back this evening. Instead I bought a few cd's on Amazone ( costing me more or less 20x less ).

I don't think I will sell my 683's but I will use theme in my HT as fronts but it is far away so I'm not shure about it yet....

I might use my new speakers driven by the ams....I'm just strugeling with that part because I like to keep HT/HI-FI seperatet.

As when I'm gaming I like the sound of my game on a low volume an put a cd on pretty loud.

But my dealer said I should use the AMS to drive my fronts an that it doesn't really mather if the rest of the speakers are from an other model or brand, I always tought otherwise :?

But that's a headbreaker for later.

 

[Neuphonix]

Not a head breaker :wall: at all, thats the beauty of going for an integrated amp rather than slaving a power amp to your AV receiver, you get the best of both worlds.

There are lots of threads & articles about setting the two units up together, I'm sure CNo will have a few expert comments on the subject. Apart from some fiddling with the volume, the AV essentially becomes another component. & when listening to music the AV is not turned on at all.

I do lots of gaming as well & this set-up works fantastically well for me.

That way you only have to have one good set of fronts so you can sell your 683 & put the money towards your new ones!! You will however require a super expensive interconnect to link the AMS & AV together :?

 

[Roby]

But you have to chose music or game comentary no?

or do you listen to music an let the comentery come derectly from the tv or your rears?

Sorry this is maybe a stupid question...

 

[Roby]

So I recieved my M1 Vynil yesterday.

An it looks great. I don't have to switch the volume anymore when I switch with cd's

an the sound is pretty amazing the few doubts I have are comming from the Lavardin whaT I mean it sound really good an lively with a clean bass an lot of detail but from time to time a litle analitical. I had the same feeling on cd... So can't wait to have my AMS.

It's playing in now so it's getting better an better. An I hope I can compare the M1 to Alex 's phonostage tomorow.

So it sound cleaner an directer as an Nad pp3 (ok really not the same budget) altrough I'm not shure how I will compare it to a VPLS that I testet a while ago...

Also I'm not shore how to use the different settings you have on the M1..... :? I try to figure that out while it's running in, I dont know how long that should be.....

 

[Neuphonix]

I forgot to say that one critical thing for this set-up to work is that your AV receiver must have RCA pre-out jacks. I had a look at the Denon 1911 & I dont think that it has pre-outs so I don't think you will be able to join it to the AMS.

If I am wrong and it does have pre-outs, you would connect the front left/right pre-out jacks of your AV receiver to the AUX inputs on the AMS (you can use any input). You no longer connect the front speakers to the AV receiver.

So the AV receiver would then be used to drive the centre / surround speakers & send the front speaker signals to the AMS. This would allow you to use the AMS for gaming & movies in a surround set-up.

You have to calibrate the volumes so that the front levels from the AMS match up with the centre & surround speakers. This would usually be done by setting the AMS volume to a predetermined position (often 12 o'clock, easy to remember) & then run the Audessy equalisation from the Denon to match the levels. The when you turn the volume up on the AV you do the same on the AMS & the same on the way down.

For music listening your CD player / turntable would be connected directly to the AMS. Your Denon AV reciever is turned off & has nothing to do with music at all.

The important thing to remember is that when you switch the AMS from using the AV/aux input to a music source input, that you remember to turn the volume down first. Otherwise it might be really loud when you start playing music & could damage your speakers.

If you do a fair bit of gaming & enjoy watching movies I might have to retract my previous statement about buying speakers first. Maybe you should look at trying to get an AV reciever with pre-outs? I am definitely listening to more music now with my new set-up, but at least 50% of my usage is home theatre. I couldn't deal with it if the two amps didn't work together, to me this is a must have.

You can spend lots of money as per usual but you don't really need to. If you are happy with Denon you could easily find a second hand deal on one with pre-outs. Try & sell your 1911 to offset the change over.

Sorry, so much more to do your head in :wall: but for me it is vital that everything works together. I don't really want (or could afford) to have separate home theatre / music systems.

Oh yes, one more thing, I have found it invaluable to have a universal remote to make it easy to use all the different things together, especially the multiple volume controls. I just use a fairly cheap Logitech Harmony, but this is another thing you can spend truck loads of money on if you wanted to!

There are heaps of threads you can find about this whole process. I know CNO does it so I'm sure he would have some valuble insight to add.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/add-a-stereo-amp-or-just-upgrade-my-av-receiver

Rest assured though, you have definitely made the best choice for your stereo amp. I just fall more & more in love with my new darling every day

 

[Roby]

Thanks,

I think I will nitegrate hifi & ht I will be gaining some space ;-)

To resolve my gaming problem when I listen to music I can turn of the audio system on the tv an use the tv speakers.

Or if I switch the av on gaming an my ams on cdp will the av only use the center an rears? An the ams will still play music from the fronts (I gues so as that seem pretty logical, but im not a 100% shure)

True 1911 don't have pre out's (the 1910 had it but for some reason they took it out afther that ), so my plan was to move it to the bedroom with a cheap speakerset. an buy a not to expensive reciever with pre out's for the living room to drive the rears & center.

True an univarsal remote is one to think about as I'm getting a pretty large colection of remote's

 

[CnoEvil]

Well sthe solution came.

Dealer called me yesterday thhe cdp was sold while I had it at home so I'm going to bring it back this evening. Instead I bought a few cd's on Amazone ( costing me more or less 20x less ).

I don't think I will sell my 683's but I will use theme in my HT as fronts but it is far away so I'm not shure about it yet....

I might use my new speakers driven by the ams....I'm just strugeling with that part because I like to keep HT/HI-FI seperatet.

As when I'm gaming I like the sound of my game on a low volume an put a cd on pretty loud.

But my dealer said I should use the AMS to drive my fronts an that it doesn't really mather if the rest of the speakers are from an other model or brand, I always tought otherwise :?

But that's a headbreaker for later.

Neuphonix has given a pretty good summary.

IMO For AV, the front 3 speakers should be the same make, and preferably the same model. The rears are better from the same brand, but can be a lesser model.

When connecting an AV amp with the AMS, it makes sense to tonally match the two amps as far as possible....how much this matters depends on how fussy you are, and how important 2 channel is (ie. what compromise you are prepared to make to get this right).

 

[Roby]

Neuphonix has given a pretty good summary.

IMO For AV, the front 3 speakers should be the same make, and preferably the same model. The rears are better from the same brand, but can be a lesser model.

When connecting an AV amp with the AMS, it makes sense to tonally match the two amps as far as possible....how much this matters depends on how fussy you are, and how important 2 channel is (ie. what compromise you are prepared to make to get this right).

:? if you put it like that I'm better of keeping everything separated. Otherwise it gone cost me a fortune :-( As the centre who will match my front's will provably cost as much as the av system I have now....

But oké this is if you want HT to be as perfect as your hifi no?

As that is not the case an I rather pay atantion to my HI-FI to be perfect. I guess I will compromize, An even then I will have a pretty good HT system no?

Looking at the shortlist of speakers I'm considering, an using the speakers I have (hmt-61 & the 685 for the rears the 683 in that case will be replaced an sold. Oké this is long term 2j I guess but nothing wrong with trying to figure out witch way I'm going)

 

[CnoEvil]

:? if you put it like that I'm better of keeping everything separated. Otherwise it gone cost me a fortune :-( As the centre who will match my front's will provably cost as much as the av system I have now....

But oké this is if you want HT to be as perfect as your hifi no?

As that is not the case an I rather pay atantion to my HI-FI to be perfect. I guess I will compromize, An even then I will have a pretty good HT system no?

Looking at the shortlist of speakers I'm considering, an using the speakers I have (hmt-61 & the 685 for the rears the 683 in that case will be replaced an sold. Oké this is long term 2j I guess but nothing wrong with trying to figure out witch way I'm going)

If you can keep everything separate, that is usually best.

It means that the 35i is only on, when listening to music; and it allows you to concentrate more on your favored 2 channel, without your AV system having to catch up.

It also cuts out all that mixing and matching of amps and speakers, and set up/use, is much easier.

 

[Neuphonix]

But if you keep everyting sepearate you end up having two sets of speakers or having to plug /unplug them from amp to amp? Or I guess you could use a speaker switch.

I didn't buy a new centre when I got the Diablos (was thinking about it sometime in the future) but to be honest I don't find any issue with my current one. It's a pretty good example of a centre, big six way, so it was never going to struggle.

http://www.krix.com/Product/Detail.aspx?id=20&p=44

I reckon buy the best stereo amp & front speakers as these are going to last a long time.

The AV receiever you can compromise on, the technology is changing so rapidly you don't hav to have the ducks guts if you dont have the money. Standard surround features with HDMI & RCA pre-outs, thats all you need. It will all be different in four or five years anyway.

It just seems a pity not to be able to use the AMS (and your new fronts when you buy them) for all of your applications. I guess if you looked at your usage and said that movies/tv/gaming was only about 20% then maybe not worth the trouble, but if you're closer to 50/50 then it's a no brainer IMHO.

Question for you CNO, do you or have you ever run a sub from the outputs on the AMS? I'm experimenting with a little sub I borrowed from my dealer at the moment. So far I've only used it via the LFE out on the AV, but was thinking about running it from the AMS instead. Any thoughts?

 

[CnoEvil]

Question for you CNO, do you or have you ever run a sub from the outputs on the AMS? I'm experimenting with a little sub I borrowed from my dealer at the moment. So far I've only used it via the LFE out on the AV, but was thinking about running it from the AMS instead. Any thoughts?

Yes, I have the AMS connected to the Sub through the pre-outs.....just be warned though, the Sub needs to be muted when turning the MF on/off, as it sends a thump through it.

I only use the Sub on certain music that requires extra gravitas; or when listening at a low level, as it acts like a "loudness button".

Re AV/Stereo mix - What I said really applies, if 2 channel of a very high quality is required, and 5.1 isn't....and they are in separate rooms. If they are in the one room, it is better to try and combine them, and live with the compromises.

 

[Roby]

Compromise will be the answer I guess at leadt in the beginning. An to be honnest I can try it out at least for a while as fo starter the 683 will be my front's untill my speaker change. This should give me a pretty good idear if I want it all to be separated (like now, ass until now I was always told this was the best way to go :? ) or integrate bothe world's

it both have pro's an contra's if you ask me....

looks like it's going to be a small head breaker after all :wall: