CnoEvil said:
No worries Cno
I'm just looking to make excuses to myself to avoid spending insane amounts of money on these highly addicitve amplifiers :help:
£2K on another Class A amp or similar might not bring a massive improvement from what I have now and I'd still be wanting more. £3K-ish for, say, an ex-demo Masterclass is still way too much, but temptingly do-able on a credit card, however daft that would be. Thus my idea of £10K for the system (since a real heavyweight Class A amp needs good speakers), which, considering my financial situation, puts the idea safely into la-la land. There's so many other things I could do if I had that amount of spare money. I could even find a dilapidated Victorian mansion and get some 1930s Hungarian PA speakers and be in audio nirvana like Lindsayt.
Phew!
paradiziac said:CnoEvil said:
No worries Cno
I'm just looking to make excuses to myself to avoid spending insane amounts of money on these highly addicitve amplifiers :help:
£2K on another Class A amp or similar might not bring a massive improvement from what I have now and I'd still be wanting more. £3K-ish for, say, an ex-demo Masterclass is still way too much, but temptingly do-able on a credit card, however daft that would be. Thus my idea of £10K for the system (since a real heavyweight Class A amp needs good speakers), which, considering my financial situation, puts the idea safely into la-la land. There's so many other things I could do if I had that amount of spare money. I could even find a dilapidated Victorian mansion and get some 1930s Hungarian PA speakers and be in audio nirvana like Lindsayt.
Phew!
Don't give up hope of ever owning a Masterclass... picked mine up for £1500 plus part ex with my Sugden A21L.
Cheers
Mac
- Jan 17, 2012
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Hello
First I want to tank you all for tha advice, tips an point of vue's you all sharred true my disicion. But I particular Alex & Cno.
So we are almost 6month's later an a lot have changed first of all
The experiance I got from all this. This helped me see clearer in what I want from my music An wich way I was prepared to go.
So about the demo of the M6 combo on BW 803 well personally I find the combo really enyoyable It detailed whitout getting analitical (like the M6 500 made me feel) warm an musical. I really have the feeling you can liten to it all day I found this kind of presentation ralaxing whitout loosing the impact an punch.
The combo have a good grip on those huge speakers. So for me if you prepared to spent that kind of money It's a safer bet than the M6 500i It's just better alrounder in my opinion an way more musical. On the other hand doe's it justify more than dubble the price of an M6i I don't think so but that's somthing you have to make out for your self but if you ask me even if I didn't hear the M6i for a while now (even if I asked the dealer to prepare one, he said he got none.... >) ) There is not really a sound difference the only thing you gain on paper is 60w (an in a test I read it was only 30w), a pono stage an 2 xlr in. But oké I have to say I found the kit also verry Sexy ;-)
But than against a AMS whel it's a different storry It was warmer with a more colorfull bass, voice hadan complete othe imbact an precence.... alltrue I had the feeling it was not really more detailed. But emotionaly an musicaly no questions asked tha AMS performed better (hahaha it was expected I guess)
Is it so much better than an M6i "NO" Is it better enough it make's you doubt if you can strech the money, certenly.
Even if a decission was alreddy made on Friday, I needed a little break from all this thinking it true... That one of the reasons I made you gys wait. Sorry
Bought a few cd's listend to my NAD an thought a lot about my choice....is it the right one am I not making a big mistake????
If I buy an AMS an I make a mistake it actualy a biger mistake than if I buy an M6i an it's a mistake....
But Like I said choice was actually made on Friday
So the Verdict is an stays 'AMS'. (even if I know I will provably buy an M6i some day for my secound set up as I'm kind of felt in love with those 2 amps that why it's so hard....)
So an other thing who kept me occupied this weekend is the battle of the dealers.... (I know what's Alex opinion about this last one an he is provably right, but that aside I'm really strugeling with this one.....)
First Alex's dealer great an great service (better as mine)
He offers me a deal on a new one that's exactly the same as my dealer offered me. so If I buy a new one for shore I will go there.
There is 5weeks order delay on an AMS but He give me any other amp he have in the shop during that period
he is also the one who let me try the AMS in home demo.
Than my dealer Best service for Brussels IMO (but that's not much)
For a new one same price
He is also giving me an amp if I take a new one witch on I don't know but I doubt I can choose
One thing he have a grey ex demo available (I was always prefering the black one now I'm not so shore any more)
cost 12% less than the offer I had on a new one an than I take it home immidiatly
For the question of the home demo he said "you didn't ask, we normaly don't do it for everybody but I would have lent the AMS. But sorry as he refused it to Alex I was not really tempted to ask....
Why Im hesitating is the last demo we had Friday with Alex.
I asked for Diablo's an D40 speakers (He have theme in stock as he showed me) an he put the 803's so that was not what I asked....
I asked for an TT I had really to push but oké He told he had no performence bt he will put a vpi scout II, when we arrived there was no TT. I also asked an M6i but NADA. Normaly I'm heped by the boss but he lett us do the demo alone provably because he didn't want the enoying question about the TT. We hed to switch amps our self, an in the end we where helped by one of the sellers (wich I actualy prefer because I think he is more rational an less pushy an he never breake a product he is not selling down. For me he give way better advice an is way more impartiale.
An one thing I have the feeling he oly took me serious when he was convinced I was prepared to spend that kind of money.
So the only reason I would buy the amp there is the ex demo wich make a big difference in my budget for me. It's grey one an The dealer in Antwerp have a grey performence available for a good price..... :?
But I still want to go to the Brussels shop, before that I was always well served (I didn't know better), But most of all he have a lot of stuff like the focal's I want to try.
So I'm kind strugeling with it an buy a new one in Antwerp (even if I have to pay more & wait 5 weeks) anyway an mabe he will take me more seriously when I come for the speakers?
So to end choice is madequestion is:
pay more & wait 5 weeks :help: :help: :help:
Or I pick it up tomorow. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
As they are both closed today :?
First I want to tank you all for tha advice, tips an point of vue's you all sharred true my disicion. But I particular Alex & Cno.
So we are almost 6month's later an a lot have changed first of all
The experiance I got from all this. This helped me see clearer in what I want from my music An wich way I was prepared to go.
So about the demo of the M6 combo on BW 803 well personally I find the combo really enyoyable It detailed whitout getting analitical (like the M6 500 made me feel) warm an musical. I really have the feeling you can liten to it all day I found this kind of presentation ralaxing whitout loosing the impact an punch.
The combo have a good grip on those huge speakers. So for me if you prepared to spent that kind of money It's a safer bet than the M6 500i It's just better alrounder in my opinion an way more musical. On the other hand doe's it justify more than dubble the price of an M6i I don't think so but that's somthing you have to make out for your self but if you ask me even if I didn't hear the M6i for a while now (even if I asked the dealer to prepare one, he said he got none.... >) ) There is not really a sound difference the only thing you gain on paper is 60w (an in a test I read it was only 30w), a pono stage an 2 xlr in. But oké I have to say I found the kit also verry Sexy ;-)
But than against a AMS whel it's a different storry It was warmer with a more colorfull bass, voice hadan complete othe imbact an precence.... alltrue I had the feeling it was not really more detailed. But emotionaly an musicaly no questions asked tha AMS performed better (hahaha it was expected I guess)
Is it so much better than an M6i "NO" Is it better enough it make's you doubt if you can strech the money, certenly.
Even if a decission was alreddy made on Friday, I needed a little break from all this thinking it true... That one of the reasons I made you gys wait. Sorry
Bought a few cd's listend to my NAD an thought a lot about my choice....is it the right one am I not making a big mistake????
If I buy an AMS an I make a mistake it actualy a biger mistake than if I buy an M6i an it's a mistake....
But Like I said choice was actually made on Friday
So the Verdict is an stays 'AMS'. (even if I know I will provably buy an M6i some day for my secound set up as I'm kind of felt in love with those 2 amps that why it's so hard....)
So an other thing who kept me occupied this weekend is the battle of the dealers.... (I know what's Alex opinion about this last one an he is provably right, but that aside I'm really strugeling with this one.....)
First Alex's dealer great an great service (better as mine)
He offers me a deal on a new one that's exactly the same as my dealer offered me. so If I buy a new one for shore I will go there.
There is 5weeks order delay on an AMS but He give me any other amp he have in the shop during that period
he is also the one who let me try the AMS in home demo.
Than my dealer Best service for Brussels IMO (but that's not much)
For a new one same price
He is also giving me an amp if I take a new one witch on I don't know but I doubt I can choose
One thing he have a grey ex demo available (I was always prefering the black one now I'm not so shore any more)
cost 12% less than the offer I had on a new one an than I take it home immidiatly
For the question of the home demo he said "you didn't ask, we normaly don't do it for everybody but I would have lent the AMS. But sorry as he refused it to Alex I was not really tempted to ask....
Why Im hesitating is the last demo we had Friday with Alex.
I asked for Diablo's an D40 speakers (He have theme in stock as he showed me) an he put the 803's so that was not what I asked....
I asked for an TT I had really to push but oké He told he had no performence bt he will put a vpi scout II, when we arrived there was no TT. I also asked an M6i but NADA. Normaly I'm heped by the boss but he lett us do the demo alone provably because he didn't want the enoying question about the TT. We hed to switch amps our self, an in the end we where helped by one of the sellers (wich I actualy prefer because I think he is more rational an less pushy an he never breake a product he is not selling down. For me he give way better advice an is way more impartiale.
An one thing I have the feeling he oly took me serious when he was convinced I was prepared to spend that kind of money.
So the only reason I would buy the amp there is the ex demo wich make a big difference in my budget for me. It's grey one an The dealer in Antwerp have a grey performence available for a good price..... :?
But I still want to go to the Brussels shop, before that I was always well served (I didn't know better), But most of all he have a lot of stuff like the focal's I want to try.
So I'm kind strugeling with it an buy a new one in Antwerp (even if I have to pay more & wait 5 weeks) anyway an mabe he will take me more seriously when I come for the speakers?
So to end choice is madequestion is:
pay more & wait 5 weeks :help: :help: :help:
Or I pick it up tomorow. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
As they are both closed today :?
I had exactly the same situation with the demo model I was lent. It was silver/grey & they offered it to me for about 10% less. I ended up going for a new one in black. I didn't have the competing dealer situation however.
Offer them 20% on the demo & see what they say, nothing ventured nothing gained.
Try not to be swayed by the immediate availability (easier said than done I know). Five weeks will go pretty quickly, especially if you have a nice loan unit to keep you occupied.
Personally I would go new black with the dealer with the best service. Lets be honest, you know you'll be going back for more!
Especially if they have the Diablos for you to listen to >)
Welcome to the club!
Offer them 20% on the demo & see what they say, nothing ventured nothing gained.
Try not to be swayed by the immediate availability (easier said than done I know). Five weeks will go pretty quickly, especially if you have a nice loan unit to keep you occupied.
Personally I would go new black with the dealer with the best service. Lets be honest, you know you'll be going back for more!
Especially if they have the Diablos for you to listen to >)
Welcome to the club!
Neuphonix said:
Well Roby...you know already as I think about this. Last demo we had (and you described very well) was absolutely ridiculous. The guy didn't even show up during the demo...but eventually he showed up when we were leaving the shop. I don't think the aptitude of considering somebody when we are almost sure he's gonna spend money with us is correct...
But well...you know all the story so no need to go through it again! 4 weeks is indeed a very short time...and I can assure you they will fly...plus you can have another nice amp in stock in the meantime...and also use this time to make more money on the side.
As usual, if you want to talk about it just give me a ring :cheers:
Roby said:
Hi Roby, thank you for the acknowlegement, but it really was a pleasure....and you did all the hard work. It has been fun following your antics.
IMO You have made the right choice and for the right reasons. The 35i is a better amp in every way and the more revealing your system gets, the more you will realize this. In it's own way it is also great VFM, as it takes one hell of an (expensive) amp to thoroughly beat it.
If you listen to the Diablos, you should also listen to the Kef Refs (201/2; 203/2 or 205/2) which are imo, a fantastic match with the 35i.....and whose strengths will suit your taste (I think they are better than the B&W 800 series, but that's personal).
With regard to your dilemma, I would go with the dealer who has treated you best, as that usually pays off in the long run....the only slight caveat would be that it makes sense to do business with the dealer who has the speakers you are likely to change to in the future (it may be one and the same).
Very often, a difference in price can be offset with discounted leads or a power cable etc.....I'm a believer in people/service, which is a philosophy that has never let me down and has had surprising benefits over the years.
An amp is the "heart" of the system and is important to get right, and now that is sorted, I look forward with anticipation where you will go next.
Cno
Hey Roby,
can i ask what the price you were quoted on the AMS was?
I got a quote from a guy in France (the guy I bought my Diablos from) for $5000 euros including shipping.
I'm not sure if this is competitive for you, happy to give you his details if you like.
can i ask what the price you were quoted on the AMS was?
I got a quote from a guy in France (the guy I bought my Diablos from) for $5000 euros including shipping.
I'm not sure if this is competitive for you, happy to give you his details if you like.
Hey Roby,
sorry I remembered that the price I was given didn't include the 20% VAT because I was buying outside of the euro zone.
$6000 for a new one sounds like a great price.
$750 less for a demo is a consideration though, enough to put you in two minds! And just when you thought your mind was finally made up!!! :doh:
I'd still say go new though, especially if you are getting the higher level of service from the dealer. As Cno said, this is probably as much an investment in the future as the amplifier itself.
And lets face it, every time you look at it and see a grey one you will wish it was black 8)
sorry I remembered that the price I was given didn't include the 20% VAT because I was buying outside of the euro zone.
$6000 for a new one sounds like a great price.
$750 less for a demo is a consideration though, enough to put you in two minds! And just when you thought your mind was finally made up!!! :doh:
I'd still say go new though, especially if you are getting the higher level of service from the dealer. As Cno said, this is probably as much an investment in the future as the amplifier itself.
And lets face it, every time you look at it and see a grey one you will wish it was black 8)
- Jan 17, 2012
- 75
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So finaly choice is made Ordered a black one in Antwerp so service wins on budget I hope I'm not regretting it :?
Now I have to wait a few weeks an I'm already impatiant..... :bounce:
Will go there somewere next week to borow an amp to play with
Cno
With Alex we already planned to check out the AMS with kef ref....will see how it go's
Of cours findings will folow on the forum
I'm also botowing an M1 vynyl to test but he says should be a great match :boohoo:
I hope I'm not regretting it :?Now I have to wait a few weeks an I'm already impatiant..... :bounce:
Will go there somewere next week to borow an amp to play with
Cno
With Alex we already planned to check out the AMS with kef ref....will see how it go's
Of cours findings will folow on the forum
I'm also botowing an M1 vynyl to test but he says should be a great match :boohoo:
Roby said:So finaly choice is made Ordered a black one in Antwerp so service wins on budget
Now I have to wait a few weeks an I'm already impatiant..... :bounce:
Will go there somewere next week to borow an amp to play with
Cno
With Alex we already planned to check out the AMS with kef ref....will see how it go's
Of cours findings will folow on the forum
I'm also botowing an M1 vynyl to test but he says should be a great match :boohoo:
How could you regret?
You bought
- the best amp for your needs (AMS won by a long step over the competitors imho)
- The colour you like the most
- at the best price for a brand NEW amp
- where you got the best service
Never money were better spent
? Let me know in advance when you get it so I can bring a nice bottle of Prosecco and a good bottle of Barolo to celebrate :cheers:
- Jan 17, 2012
- 75
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- 18,545
Sopicked up a lavardin IS reference as the mc intosh was away for home demo. I conected it this morning. Have to say I'm really d'esapointed for an amp that price (arround 5 times the price of my NAD) Oke there is more detail but that's all there is....
It sound cheap an to bright to me, the nad have more tune full bass an is more musical there is IMO more reality in the voice.... I think I will ask for a trade try a moon amp like he first sugested maybe that will be a little more laid back (like I like it).
I also noted that I have to put the volume of it when playing a cd is at 11' with my nad at 9 for the TT 11' :O well I looked it up an it's rated 45w in 8 ohm consuming 180w NAD is 80w consuming 330w
Oké it's only for a month but still....
On they other hand we all now there is something ass getting used to the sound...so let see if I feel the same way on they end of the weekend.
An other one I can buy a Rega Saturn cdp ex demo for half the price I'm not shure It's worth the upgrade an more if it would be a good match for my AMS, Anny tought?
(considering I wouls sell also my cdp in that case it would cost me the price of tha ca cdp more less)
It sound cheap an to bright to me, the nad have more tune full bass an is more musical there is IMO more reality in the voice.... I think I will ask for a trade try a moon amp like he first sugested maybe that will be a little more laid back (like I like it).
I also noted that I have to put the volume of it when playing a cd is at 11' with my nad at 9 for the TT 11' :O well I looked it up an it's rated 45w in 8 ohm consuming 180w NAD is 80w consuming 330w
Oké it's only for a month but still....
On they other hand we all now there is something ass getting used to the sound...so let see if I feel the same way on they end of the weekend.
An other one I can buy a Rega Saturn cdp ex demo for half the price I'm not shure It's worth the upgrade an more if it would be a good match for my AMS, Anny tought?
(considering I wouls sell also my cdp in that case it would cost me the price of tha ca cdp more less)
Roby said:
I had a Moon i7 out for home demo and much preferred my AVR600. The fact that I think the 35i is a good step up from the Arcam, tells you all you need to know about my opinion. HFW also preferred the MF over the newer (and similarly priced) Moon 600i.
The McIntosh will give you a big, warm and powerful presentation, which matches very well with Kef Reference. Which model are you looking at?
You should hear for yourself, but I suspect McIntosh plays more to Acalex's taste than yours....but I could be mistaken!
Rega make very musical CDPs.
- Jan 17, 2012
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Well I'm not really looking for something paticular as my AMS avive in a few weeks, so it will be only for 1 month ( still have some doubts asking my self how I blow my budget out of the roof but I guess that feeling will go away when I recieve my AMS)
It is just that I don't really like the presentation of the Lavardin in my set-up it's to agressive to my ears even on vinyl, witch is unusual. Mcintosh is not an option as it is away for an home demo...he sugested moon while I'm waiting. Are they generaly known as a bit more laid back a bit less agressive? or am I mistaking?
I think I'm going to ask the cdp home test it see If I feel it really an upgrade
I don't know what the going rate is for a Rega Saturn
but normaly he sels it for 1900€ (1604£) an the ex demo go's for 959€ (773£) so if it is a good match for my AMS, better than my Azure 650. I think it's a good deal. No?
It is just that I don't really like the presentation of the Lavardin in my set-up it's to agressive to my ears even on vinyl, witch is unusual. Mcintosh is not an option as it is away for an home demo...he sugested moon while I'm waiting. Are they generaly known as a bit more laid back a bit less agressive? or am I mistaking?
I think I'm going to ask the cdp home test it see If I feel it really an upgrade
I don't know what the going rate is for a Rega Saturn
but normaly he sels it for 1900€ (1604£) an the ex demo go's for 959€ (773£) so if it is a good match for my AMS, better than my Azure 650. I think it's a good deal. No?
Roby said:
I suspect all doubts will retreat once the 35i is in situ for a while.
I think the Lavardin needs its own cables, and matched with different speakers.
I got the Moon out on demo because I thought it would be musical and refined. I really wanted to like it, as it was a great price (as ex-dem), and easier to integrate into my AV system. I didn't like it at all, as I found it bright, sterile and lacking richness. I have since heard the modern model with Totem speakers, and found the same thing.
IMO. For around the price of an ex-dem Saturn, you would be better off with a Linn Sneaky; and at the price of a new one, a Majik DS. If streaming isn't an option, then the Saturn would do very nicely.
FWIW. If Streaming is an option, I think that you should hear a DS before you spend any serious money on a source....if only to rule it out (sorry to sound like a broken record).
Try to get the amr hybrid as i am very curios to see hiw it will perform.
Forget about cdp for now. Or at least not before receiving the sbt and demoing the linn ds range
Did you try the record clamp already? Which one you borrowed?
Forget about cdp for now
. Or at least not before receiving the sbt and demoing the linn ds rangeDid you try the record clamp already? Which one you borrowed?
Hi Roby,
I notice the AQ Golden Gate in your sig. I think as you upgrade the system, the cables will become a limiting factor if you don't also upgrade these.
I notice the AQ Golden Gate in your sig. I think as you upgrade the system, the cables will become a limiting factor if you don't also upgrade these.
- Jan 17, 2012
- 75
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- 18,545
Well I plan to upgrade cables ass well but this will be done when all the rest is done.
First the phono stage M1 vinyl that I ordered at the same time as the AMS I will also upgrade the cardridge to an M2 red
Also ordered a sbt that I will recieve next week I guess
Then somewhere between 1 & 2 years the spekers.
Short list would beI want o listen to is
-keff ref 202/5
-proarc d28 an d40
- BW 803
- Focal diablo
But this is far away so it will sertenly change
Then Upgrade my TT but I'm considering doing that one before the speaker change.
- cdp as if I buy the ex demo an sell mine it would only cost me arround 500€ would change before if I think it's worth it afther a home demo otherwis, I keep my current cdp an at a decent dac an streamer afther the speaker change.
- ass Im not really familiar in that area yet I have no idear witch way that will go.
But I'm certenly going to test the Linn range.
An only than I will break my head on cables.
First the phono stage M1 vinyl that I ordered at the same time as the AMS I will also upgrade the cardridge to an M2 red
Also ordered a sbt that I will recieve next week I guess
Then somewhere between 1 & 2 years the spekers.
Short list would beI want o listen to is
-keff ref 202/5
-proarc d28 an d40
- BW 803
- Focal diablo
But this is far away so it will sertenly change
Then Upgrade my TT but I'm considering doing that one before the speaker change.
- cdp as if I buy the ex demo an sell mine it would only cost me arround 500€ would change before if I think it's worth it afther a home demo otherwis, I keep my current cdp an at a decent dac an streamer afther the speaker change.
- ass Im not really familiar in that area yet I have no idear witch way that will go.
But I'm certenly going to test the Linn range.
An only than I will break my head on cables.
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