trevor79:OK 230v on a good day 220v is nearer to what you actually get.
But the French divide it down both rails NOT just the live rail!
Its balanced, that's why you dont need an Earth hence 2 pin plugs.
No, french law says you must have an earth, and plugs are two pin plus earth. The wires are earth, neutral and phase.
Description here: http://www.cef-fr.com/dos_norme.php
Careful, Trevor.
But the French divide it down both rails NOT just the live rail!
Its balanced, that's why you dont need an Earth hence 2 pin plugs.
No, french law says you must have an earth, and plugs are two pin plus earth. The wires are earth, neutral and phase.
Description here: http://www.cef-fr.com/dos_norme.php
Careful, Trevor.
French electrics leave a lot to be desired.
Until recently they relied on trip switches for protection without an earth!
I.e. the trip only operated when an external connection was made from a faulty appliance through an external connection;- i.e. a body. A lot of people survived.
Many older properties have 3 phase supplies, furthermore Earthing of the supply is down to the consumer and not the Electricity supply company.
Plugs in France mainly are the two round pronged design found in Northern Europe, and do not include a separate prong for earth. Instead, the earth prong is actually built into the wall socket (sometimes!).
Not really interested in talking about French Electrics which is a bit of a lottery to figure out polarity etc. You can forget about colour coded wires as they only bother that it ends up right when it gets to the plug socket!
Proper Earthing is also come day/go day.
Until recently they relied on trip switches for protection without an earth!
I.e. the trip only operated when an external connection was made from a faulty appliance through an external connection;- i.e. a body. A lot of people survived.
Many older properties have 3 phase supplies, furthermore Earthing of the supply is down to the consumer and not the Electricity supply company.
Plugs in France mainly are the two round pronged design found in Northern Europe, and do not include a separate prong for earth. Instead, the earth prong is actually built into the wall socket (sometimes!).
Not really interested in talking about French Electrics which is a bit of a lottery to figure out polarity etc. You can forget about colour coded wires as they only bother that it ends up right when it gets to the plug socket!
Proper Earthing is also come day/go day.
I never thought I'd hear the cry of 'all back to mine' in a conversation about mains conditioning. Trevor, you are a worker of miracles.
trevor79:French electrics leave a lot to be desired.
Until recently they relied on trip switches for protection without an earth!
I.e. the trip only operated when an external connection was made from a faulty appliance through an external connection;- i.e. a body. A lot of people survived.
Many older properties have 3 phase supplies, furthermore Earthing of the supply is down to the consumer and not the Electricity supply company.
Plugs in France mainly are the two round pronged design found in Northern Europe, and do not include a separate prong for earth. Instead, the earth prong is actually built into the wall socket (sometimes!).
Not really interested in talking about French Electrics which is a bit of a lottery to figure out polarity etc. You can forget about colour coded wires as they only bother that it ends up right when it gets to the plug socket!
Proper Earthing is also come day/go day.
Trevor, why not just admit you were and are wrong. 110 volts going up the negative and the positive?? Come on!!
Until recently they relied on trip switches for protection without an earth!
I.e. the trip only operated when an external connection was made from a faulty appliance through an external connection;- i.e. a body. A lot of people survived.
Many older properties have 3 phase supplies, furthermore Earthing of the supply is down to the consumer and not the Electricity supply company.
Plugs in France mainly are the two round pronged design found in Northern Europe, and do not include a separate prong for earth. Instead, the earth prong is actually built into the wall socket (sometimes!).
Not really interested in talking about French Electrics which is a bit of a lottery to figure out polarity etc. You can forget about colour coded wires as they only bother that it ends up right when it gets to the plug socket!
Proper Earthing is also come day/go day.
Trevor, why not just admit you were and are wrong. 110 volts going up the negative and the positive?? Come on!!
Many older properties have 3 phase supplies which gives 110v down both lines, furthermore Earthing of the supply is down to the consumer and not the Electricity supply company. Fact
You stated your Apartment was nor Earthed.
So your Mains is 220/230v on spurs, one of either of the two pins on plugs which aren't fused.
Am not wrong, but not a mind reader on your personal apartment wiring. France suffers from greater voltage fluctuations and power surges than the UK, whilst the supply is rated at 230v in reality 220v would be a more accurate figure in many areas.
I am pleased that your enjoyment of music is undiminished by the quality of your system or supply.
I love France and have spent much time there. Life would be much less enjoyable without XO and excellent French wine.
A nice Sancerre for dinner tonight I think to go with a King Prawn/cream wine sauce, Tagliatelle with olives/sun dried toms/garlic/herbs.
Then watch The Devil Wears Prada on Blue ray......Lovely
You stated your Apartment was nor Earthed.
So your Mains is 220/230v on spurs, one of either of the two pins on plugs which aren't fused.
Am not wrong, but not a mind reader on your personal apartment wiring. France suffers from greater voltage fluctuations and power surges than the UK, whilst the supply is rated at 230v in reality 220v would be a more accurate figure in many areas.
I am pleased that your enjoyment of music is undiminished by the quality of your system or supply.
I love France and have spent much time there. Life would be much less enjoyable without XO and excellent French wine.
A nice Sancerre for dinner tonight I think to go with a King Prawn/cream wine sauce, Tagliatelle with olives/sun dried toms/garlic/herbs.
Then watch The Devil Wears Prada on Blue ray......Lovely
MENISCUS:AKL, if you look like your avatar you can pop over to my place any time......... That depends on what you kit you have. And of course I am talking about hi fi kit.
trevor79:Many older properties have 3 phase supplies which gives 110v down both lines, furthermore Earthing of the supply is down to the consumer and not the Electricity supply company. Fact
You stated your Apartment was nor Earthed.
So your Mains is 220/230v on spurs, one of either of the two pins on plugs which aren't fused.
Am not wrong, but not a mind reader on your personal apartment wiring. France suffers from greater voltage fluctuations and power surges than the UK, whilst the supply is rated at 230v in reality 220v would be a more accurate figure in many areas.
I am pleased that your enjoyment of music is undiminished by the quality of your system or supply.
I love France and have spent much time there. Life would be much less enjoyable without XO and excellent French wine.
A nice Sancerre for dinner tonight I think to go with a King Prawn/cream wine sauce, Tagliatelle with olives/sun dried toms/garlic/herbs.
Then watch The Devil Wears Prada on Blue ray......Lovely
You're still wrong. Triphase is 400v in France. Suggest you have a look at this.
You stated your Apartment was nor Earthed.
So your Mains is 220/230v on spurs, one of either of the two pins on plugs which aren't fused.
Am not wrong, but not a mind reader on your personal apartment wiring. France suffers from greater voltage fluctuations and power surges than the UK, whilst the supply is rated at 230v in reality 220v would be a more accurate figure in many areas.
I am pleased that your enjoyment of music is undiminished by the quality of your system or supply.
I love France and have spent much time there. Life would be much less enjoyable without XO and excellent French wine.
A nice Sancerre for dinner tonight I think to go with a King Prawn/cream wine sauce, Tagliatelle with olives/sun dried toms/garlic/herbs.
Then watch The Devil Wears Prada on Blue ray......Lovely
You're still wrong. Triphase is 400v in France. Suggest you have a look at this.
AKL:MENISCUS:AKL, if you look like your avatar you can pop over to my place any time......... That depends on what you kit you have. And of course I am talking about hi fi kit.
Oh, I do love dirty Hi-Fi kit talk.
Get the Braso out and give those connections a good rubbing I say.
Oh, I do love dirty Hi-Fi kit talk.
Get the Braso out and give those connections a good rubbing I say.
A nice Sancerre for dinner tonight I think to go with a King Prawn/cream wine sauce, Tagliatelle with olives/sun dried toms/garlic/herbs.
Then watch The Devil Wears Prada on Blue ray......Lovely
Well got through the Prawn toast and Dr Who / bottle of wine.
Now onto the main course.
Happy Easter everyone, enjoy the holiday.
Then watch The Devil Wears Prada on Blue ray......Lovely
Well got through the Prawn toast and Dr Who / bottle of wine.
Now onto the main course.
Happy Easter everyone, enjoy the holiday.
idc
Well-known member
Happy easter to you to Trevor. Classic thread, a debate, an argument, off topic, humour, learning and of course Leeds won today, again!
idc:Happy easter to you to Trevor... and of course Leeds won today, again!
Indeed, how could a weekend be any better... with another Leeds win!
Indeed, how could a weekend be any better... with another Leeds win!
jase fox
Well-known member
trevor79:Hi Jase, would love to meet up with you, bring some CD's over and some hobnobs and we are away!Its a done deal Trev, i will be arranging something soon as id love to hear your system with all your mains modifications etc its going to be well worth the trip.
Ill bring both hob nobs & jaffa cakes, cant focus very well without jaffas.... ha
Ill bring both hob nobs & jaffa cakes, cant focus very well without jaffas.... ha
Looking forward to it, I or 2 Blue Rays as well perhaps?
Bring your wife along as well of course, the girls can chat whilst we listen and munch!
Bring your wife along as well of course, the girls can chat whilst we listen and munch!
Gerrardasnails
Well-known member
trevor79:Looking forward to it, I or 2 Blue Rays as well perhaps?
Bring your wife along as well of course, the girls can chat whilst we listen and munch!
This is beautiful. What price, and I'm not talking about Jase and Trev, on the first WHF Forum wedding!!
Bring your wife along as well of course, the girls can chat whilst we listen and munch!
This is beautiful. What price, and I'm not talking about Jase and Trev, on the first WHF Forum wedding!!
jase fox
Well-known member
trevor79:Looking forward to it, I or 2 Blue Rays as well perhaps?
Bring your wife along as well of course, the girls can chat whilst we listen and munch!Yer ill def bring some blurays as we have to test everything, ha.
Ive just mentioned it to the other half & shes up for it, luckily for me i have a partner thats into hifi & home cinema anyway so at least she isnt going to be bored. Mind you i think shell be bored when we have a mains conversation, ha
Well have to start working out some plans Trev, leave it with me.
Bring your wife along as well of course, the girls can chat whilst we listen and munch!Yer ill def bring some blurays as we have to test everything, ha.
Ive just mentioned it to the other half & shes up for it, luckily for me i have a partner thats into hifi & home cinema anyway so at least she isnt going to be bored. Mind you i think shell be bored when we have a mains conversation, ha
Well have to start working out some plans Trev, leave it with me.
No doubt the Forum will be keen to hear your review!
As you have a good system yourself, it will be interesting to see how they compare.
E Mail me with your phone No and I will give you a call.
See we have had over 1000 hits so far!
As you have a good system yourself, it will be interesting to see how they compare.
E Mail me with your phone No and I will give you a call.
See we have had over 1000 hits so far!
jase fox
Well-known member
trevor79:No doubt the Forum will be keen to hear your review!
As you have a good system yourself, it will be interesting to see how they compare.
E Mail me with your phone No and I will give you a call.
See we have had over 1000 hits so far!Ive sent you an e-mail Trev, hopefully be talking to you soon.
Yes im very pleased with my system Trev & im so curious as to how yours is going to sound, looking forward to it.....
As you have a good system yourself, it will be interesting to see how they compare.
E Mail me with your phone No and I will give you a call.
See we have had over 1000 hits so far!Ive sent you an e-mail Trev, hopefully be talking to you soon.
Yes im very pleased with my system Trev & im so curious as to how yours is going to sound, looking forward to it.....
A little late for April Fools, is it not?
All very happy for you but quite intrigued why no one has questioned the assertion that a Onkyo AV amp with some mains conditioning is all thats required to outperform a dedicated hifi setup.
Obviously all the hifi manufacturers have got it all wrong - rather than focusing on the internal electronics all they should have been doing is pimping their mains cables and building mains conditioners.
I do think that mains cables can make a difference (have seen it myself) but there is a limit.
Is everyone going to be taking Trev's individual opinion for gospel without any objective evidence? Is he another one (like Ashley) claiming that his £1-2k system can outperform ones costing many times more (at least Ash with his active speakers and high quality DAC has something to support his theories beyond Trev's self certified expertise in Hifi as the only evidence).
Perhaps he could take this miraculous piece of kit along to WHFSV for some 3rd party scrutiny, after all we have all heard various individuals claiming that their iPod connected to a cheap amp is better than anything else on earth. I for one would be happy to contribute to Trev's travelling expenses if it means we can prove that his amp has truly been touched by the hand of God.
I'd also question how revealing Trev's system actually is. In one of the articles recently posted on the Stereophile website Steve Guttenberg commented how Spingsteen's Born to Run sounds awful on a proper hifi setup without switching off the analytical side of your brain.
All very happy for you but quite intrigued why no one has questioned the assertion that a Onkyo AV amp with some mains conditioning is all thats required to outperform a dedicated hifi setup.
Obviously all the hifi manufacturers have got it all wrong - rather than focusing on the internal electronics all they should have been doing is pimping their mains cables and building mains conditioners.
I do think that mains cables can make a difference (have seen it myself) but there is a limit.
Is everyone going to be taking Trev's individual opinion for gospel without any objective evidence? Is he another one (like Ashley) claiming that his £1-2k system can outperform ones costing many times more (at least Ash with his active speakers and high quality DAC has something to support his theories beyond Trev's self certified expertise in Hifi as the only evidence).
Perhaps he could take this miraculous piece of kit along to WHFSV for some 3rd party scrutiny, after all we have all heard various individuals claiming that their iPod connected to a cheap amp is better than anything else on earth. I for one would be happy to contribute to Trev's travelling expenses if it means we can prove that his amp has truly been touched by the hand of God.
I'd also question how revealing Trev's system actually is. In one of the articles recently posted on the Stereophile website Steve Guttenberg commented how Spingsteen's Born to Run sounds awful on a proper hifi setup without switching off the analytical side of your brain.
What exactly is the problem Grimaldi? Trevor has offered to open his home to people to come and listen for themselves - why don't you take him up on the offer and then your opinions on his system can be based upon first hand experience, rather than tiresome cynicism?
Indeed, it did cross my mind. But I can't dismiss his subjective opinion about his system. If it sounds good to him then it is good for him. Whether you or I would agree after listening to it is an entirely different matter.
He claims modification to several parts of his system, none of which I'm familiar with apart from the speakers which are in my opinion not capable of revealing what a quality source/amplifier can do. Again, I believe he claims modifications to the MA's which may have changed the rather compromised sound quality in 'retail' form. As always, my opinion only and others may disagree.
He claims modification to several parts of his system, none of which I'm familiar with apart from the speakers which are in my opinion not capable of revealing what a quality source/amplifier can do. Again, I believe he claims modifications to the MA's which may have changed the rather compromised sound quality in 'retail' form. As always, my opinion only and others may disagree.
Grimaldi:A little late for April Fools, is it not?
All very happy for you but quite intrigued why no one has questioned the assertion that a Onkyo AV amp with some mains conditioning is all thats required to outperform a dedicated hifi setup.
Obviously all the hifi manufacturers have got it all wrong - rather than focusing on the internal electronics all they should have been doing is pimping their mains cables and building mains conditioners.
I do think that mains cables can make a difference (have seen it myself) but there is a limit.
Is everyone going to be taking Trev's individual opinion for gospel without any objective evidence? Is he another one (like Ashley) claiming that his £1-2k system can outperform ones costing many times more (at least Ash with his active speakers and high quality DAC has something to support his theories beyond Trev's self certified expertise in Hifi as the only evidence).
Perhaps he could take this miraculous piece of kit along to WHFSV for some 3rd party scrutiny, after all we have all heard various individuals claiming that their iPod connected to a cheap amp is better than anything else on earth. I for one would be happy to contribute to Trev's travelling expenses if it means we can prove that his amp has truly been touched by the hand of God.
I'd also question how revealing Trev's system actually is. In one of the articles recently posted on the Stereophile website Steve Guttenberg commented how Spingsteen's Born to Run sounds awful on a proper hifi setup without switching off the analytical side of your brain.
What brought that on?
If I want to invite some fellow enthusiasts round to my home that's my business.
What I choose to listen to when I am in a certain mood doesn't have to be a recording of the highest standard. I agree Born to Run is awfully produced, but seeing I saw him in Roundhay Park on my 1st date with my wife it has great memories for us.
It is right that we all form opinions about our music, and the more important these things are to one the more considered our approach.
The route I have taken with my own set up has been long and twisting, with the hope of trying to achieve a good musical performance out of a AV system.
It will be interesting to hear someone elses take on it, and I am looking forward to honest thoughts.
As I have no commercial interests there is no point in taking my system anywhere.
Regards
All very happy for you but quite intrigued why no one has questioned the assertion that a Onkyo AV amp with some mains conditioning is all thats required to outperform a dedicated hifi setup.
Obviously all the hifi manufacturers have got it all wrong - rather than focusing on the internal electronics all they should have been doing is pimping their mains cables and building mains conditioners.
I do think that mains cables can make a difference (have seen it myself) but there is a limit.
Is everyone going to be taking Trev's individual opinion for gospel without any objective evidence? Is he another one (like Ashley) claiming that his £1-2k system can outperform ones costing many times more (at least Ash with his active speakers and high quality DAC has something to support his theories beyond Trev's self certified expertise in Hifi as the only evidence).
Perhaps he could take this miraculous piece of kit along to WHFSV for some 3rd party scrutiny, after all we have all heard various individuals claiming that their iPod connected to a cheap amp is better than anything else on earth. I for one would be happy to contribute to Trev's travelling expenses if it means we can prove that his amp has truly been touched by the hand of God.
I'd also question how revealing Trev's system actually is. In one of the articles recently posted on the Stereophile website Steve Guttenberg commented how Spingsteen's Born to Run sounds awful on a proper hifi setup without switching off the analytical side of your brain.
What brought that on?
If I want to invite some fellow enthusiasts round to my home that's my business.
What I choose to listen to when I am in a certain mood doesn't have to be a recording of the highest standard. I agree Born to Run is awfully produced, but seeing I saw him in Roundhay Park on my 1st date with my wife it has great memories for us.
It is right that we all form opinions about our music, and the more important these things are to one the more considered our approach.
The route I have taken with my own set up has been long and twisting, with the hope of trying to achieve a good musical performance out of a AV system.
It will be interesting to hear someone elses take on it, and I am looking forward to honest thoughts.
As I have no commercial interests there is no point in taking my system anywhere.
Regards
Perhaps I was a bit harsh. I am just finding it amazing that no one is even trying to dispute these amazing claims.
Geographically I am in no position to take him up on his offer and i doubt that I would be very objective in any case as I don't like the sound of the RS series of speakers.
I don't doubt that the Onkyo sounds OK for a mid level system but an AV amp is an all round compromise (has to power 7 speakers, has enough electronic circuitry for processing, tuner, upscaling, etc).
Geographically I am in no position to take him up on his offer and i doubt that I would be very objective in any case as I don't like the sound of the RS series of speakers.
I don't doubt that the Onkyo sounds OK for a mid level system but an AV amp is an all round compromise (has to power 7 speakers, has enough electronic circuitry for processing, tuner, upscaling, etc).
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