Alec
Well-known member
Sorry, im not getting results when i google the link. I'm not sure how this works if im not allowed to hear both rips...?
Hi. Just copy and paste the link. It works for me, and if it gives an error try again. Sometimes that happened to me, but then I try again and it works. I've just tried too.
[quote user="al7478"]Sorry, im not getting results when i google the link. I'm not sure how this works if im not allowed to hear both rips...?[/quote]
Well, that was the point of the experiment! I know people can tell one apart from the other having both, I'm not interested in that comparison. But as you said it sounded to you like radio (let's forget about the sea thing), I challenged you to tell me whether the file I'd send you is "radio like" or "cd like".
[quote user="al7478"]Sorry, im not getting results when i google the link. I'm not sure how this works if im not allowed to hear both rips...?[/quote]
Well, that was the point of the experiment! I know people can tell one apart from the other having both, I'm not interested in that comparison. But as you said it sounded to you like radio (let's forget about the sea thing), I challenged you to tell me whether the file I'd send you is "radio like" or "cd like".
professorhat
Well-known member
Well I'm confused! You're asking someone to be able to tell, just by listening, at what rate a file is encoded? I think there's some crosswires going on here as, as far as I'm aware, no one here has claimed to be able to do that. The very fact that in his post, al7478 stated that not all 320kbs encoded files sound similar depending on which program encoded them suggests this wouldn't be possible...
[quote user="bf2008"]Ok. Thanks for your post. Your gear is quite reasonable as well, not some esoteric stuff, so I'd be very surprised if you can tell whether a file is lossless or 320mp3 from media player without having the two versions of it. I'd look into posting the file in youtube or some other online system. (I have to make sure it doesn't change the quality at all). I'll try to choose some classical music stuff, so that it's not that difficult for you, and also because classical music is usually well recorded.[/quote]
There is a serious flaw in your test. It is impossible for someone to tell the difference, if they do not have access to the original. A well ripped 320 Kbps MP3 of a well recorded CD, will sound much better than a WAV rip of a slightly worse CD.
The best way to try to see if you can tell the difference is to use ABX software. If you download the Foobar2000 music player, and then look for the blind test ABX plugin, it enables direct comparison, and ABX testing.
I can pretty much guarantee that few here will pass the test to any degree.
In my experience a good HQ MP3 (not even 320, but say ~210 VBR), is indistiguishable from the original unless you're playing through decent amp and speakers.
I personally can't pass an ABX from 320 MP3 and WAV using my PC and headphones,
On the other hand the difference between 128 and 190 VBR is quite large.
There is a serious flaw in your test. It is impossible for someone to tell the difference, if they do not have access to the original. A well ripped 320 Kbps MP3 of a well recorded CD, will sound much better than a WAV rip of a slightly worse CD.
The best way to try to see if you can tell the difference is to use ABX software. If you download the Foobar2000 music player, and then look for the blind test ABX plugin, it enables direct comparison, and ABX testing.
I can pretty much guarantee that few here will pass the test to any degree.
In my experience a good HQ MP3 (not even 320, but say ~210 VBR), is indistiguishable from the original unless you're playing through decent amp and speakers.
I personally can't pass an ABX from 320 MP3 and WAV using my PC and headphones,
On the other hand the difference between 128 and 190 VBR is quite large.
Hi. Al7478 said "When i rip a 320kbps mp3 in media player, it sounds like im listening to a radio at the bottom of the deep blue sea, compared to the same song ripped to the same format and bitrate ripped with EAC". I can tell if I'm listening to a source in a radio at the bottom of the sea from a cd! But I can't tell different formats apart, hence I challenged him for this test. See my post, "If it's as you say, then you could even be able to tell if a file is in 320 windows media player mp3 or lossless even if it's music you've never listened to (I can do this with the radio and a cd, let alone if they're playing the radio at the bottom of the sea!). Are you keen to do this challenge with me? I send you a well recorded song and you tell me whether it's that mp3 or lossless." He accepted this challenge, maybe because he didn't realised I said I was going to send only ONE file. The file I uploaded is a well recorded classical music cd (as most classical music cds) of a piano piece (hence he can still have some degree of comparison with other recordings of piano music). If al7478 wants, he can give up to this test, and I'll consider this matter to be over (I'm anyway not interested in the format comparison). What I've always been asking to, is for a comparison of an iPod with a cd player as sources. And then yes, I mean ABX comparison.Cheers,(and to fr0g, when you mean the difference between 128 and 190vbr is quite large you mean to can abx them with your headphones and pc? Which set of headphones do you have?) Thanks.
professorhat
Well-known member
[quote user="fr0g"]The best way to try to see if you can tell the difference is to use ABX software. If you download the Foobar2000 music player, and then look for the blind test ABX plugin, it enables direct comparison, and ABX testing.[/quote]
Hi, could you tell me where to get this plug in and also an explanation of how it works?
Thanks.
Hi, could you tell me where to get this plug in and also an explanation of how it works?
Thanks.
professorhat
Well-known member
[quote user="PJPro"]Prof. I thought you weren't gonna get embroiled in this?!
[/quote]
Well, I just didn't want to get into a "that's impossible because... insert appropriate scientific theory here" argument. Fortunately, this hasn't turned into this so I'm still posting the odd comment! I do still think of course we should all just listen to the music rather than discuss which format is best...
[/quote]
Well, I just didn't want to get into a "that's impossible because... insert appropriate scientific theory here" argument. Fortunately, this hasn't turned into this so I'm still posting the odd comment! I do still think of course we should all just listen to the music rather than discuss which format is best...
Hi. I've just found out how to use the program and did an ABX test with 320kbps mp3 from windows media player and a .wav file and my score wasn't very good.
It's quite a nice program, but it's a pity it makes those pops each time I change the file. Do you know of any way to get away from this? For example, it'd be nice if it took longer to swith the file, but then did the mix perfectly well, and showed a light or some visual input when the change happens.
It's quite a nice program, but it's a pity it makes those pops each time I change the file. Do you know of any way to get away from this? For example, it'd be nice if it took longer to swith the file, but then did the mix perfectly well, and showed a light or some visual input when the change happens.
Alec
Well-known member
Am downloading the track as we speak. Im fairly sure ill get it, but if i could compare it with the other file id be 99.9999999999...% sure 
Alec
Well-known member
Ah. I have just realised a really obvious flaw lol! i can say with confidence that that was the lossless file as you encoded that with apple lossless didnt you? Well, i missed tha rather obvious factor that i cant play that in wmp lol! I dont use itunes! Oh, i dunno whether to laugh or cry!
Alec
Well-known member
Hi. As I explained in my original post explaining the challenge, the final file was going to be in apple lossless converted in itunes, since if it is the 320kbps mp3 it's reconverted in itunes to apple lossless. Hence, what I'm asking to say is whether the file is a 320kbps mp3 imported in windows media player and then reconverted in itunes to apple lossless, or a file directly imported in itunes.
Also, don't you have itunes in your computer? It's the best program by far to handle music!!!! I'm a strong supporter of it, can't understand why people use the others. But even if you don't like it simply install it once to listen to the song.
Also, don't you have itunes in your computer? It's the best program by far to handle music!!!! I'm a strong supporter of it, can't understand why people use the others. But even if you don't like it simply install it once to listen to the song.
Yes, I just checked the output of my two files and they are the same, so don't get mislead by that and just listen to them.
Also, I've been thinking about what you said with respect to the difference between the 320kbps mp3 from media player and the 320kbps mp3 from eac, and for me the difference you were referring to sounded like what for me is the difference between the audio from a youtube video and a 128kbps mp3. Youtube sounds so bad to me that I don't really enjoy listening to it, and I think I could in this case really tell straight away whether an audio source is from youtube or from the 128kbps. (of course again for accoustic music, and well recorded). But I'll check this further to see if I'm right.
Also, I've been thinking about what you said with respect to the difference between the 320kbps mp3 from media player and the 320kbps mp3 from eac, and for me the difference you were referring to sounded like what for me is the difference between the audio from a youtube video and a 128kbps mp3. Youtube sounds so bad to me that I don't really enjoy listening to it, and I think I could in this case really tell straight away whether an audio source is from youtube or from the 128kbps. (of course again for accoustic music, and well recorded). But I'll check this further to see if I'm right.
Alec
Well-known member
No i dont have it. I'm a strong believer in sticking with waht you know unless theres a compelling reason to change. This test is becoming increasingly convoluted, im not at all sure what you're trying to establish anymore.
Well, more of less what I said above about the difference between youtube and mp3. But if you want we can forget about the test anyway, I don't think anyone could pass it, really. Otherwise, man, I'll start worrying I've become completely deaf!
And also, I'm sure you have some program to convert apple lossless to wav or another lossless format! I use dbpoweramp otherwise, but obviously itunes will download and install in a few minutes if you prefer that.
And also, I'm sure you have some program to convert apple lossless to wav or another lossless format! I use dbpoweramp otherwise, but obviously itunes will download and install in a few minutes if you prefer that.
Alec
Well-known member
im not sure what you man by the "output", but if one started life as an mp3, and the other as apple lossless, im not sure they could be the same, if you mean what i think you mean...?
Well, I don't know what you mean either. But just listen to the song and tell me if it's 320mp3 or lossless and forget about the technicalities! It's a if I was putting you a song in your living room and you have to guess the format, just done through the internet.
Hope to hear about your thoughts about the quality of the file format!
Hope to hear about your thoughts about the quality of the file format!
Downloaded both to my pc playing both in Windows media player>creative SB audigy 2 ZS> Sony MDR-EX71 in ear headphones. The difference is not that one sounds all out better, but there is more in the 24 bit WAV, and sounds appear to be coming from different directions.
[quote user="richardjlarby"]Downloaded both to my pc playing both in Windows media player>creative SB audigy 2 ZS> Sony MDR-EX71 in ear headphones. The difference is not that one sounds all out better, but there is more in the 24 bit WAV, and sounds appear to be coming from different directions.[/quote]
Are you talking about the file I uploaded? How can you say then that you listened to "both" if there is only one! And also, there's no 24bit wav, just apple lossless or mp3.
Are you talking about the file I uploaded? How can you say then that you listened to "both" if there is only one! And also, there's no 24bit wav, just apple lossless or mp3.
Alec
Well-known member
[quote user="bf2008"]Hi al7478. What happened? Did you listen to the files? Any comments?[/quote]
Sorry, had a bad day and not got itunes yet. but its on my mind.
Sorry, had a bad day and not got itunes yet. but its on my mind.
[quote user="al7478"][quote user="bf2008"]Hi al7478. What happened? Did you listen to the files? Any comments?[/quote]
Sorry, had a bad day and not got itunes yet. but its on my mind.[/quote]
No problems. Tell me when you listened to it.
Also, guys, what about the difference between full resolution stereo sacd and cd? Have you heard both in the same equipment and are you willing to give your impressions on it?
Sorry, had a bad day and not got itunes yet. but its on my mind.[/quote]
No problems. Tell me when you listened to it.
Also, guys, what about the difference between full resolution stereo sacd and cd? Have you heard both in the same equipment and are you willing to give your impressions on it?
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