Melco n1a or Melco n1a2

[newlash09]

Anyone heard one. If one decides that he wants to invest in his digital source, this seems to come well recommended. In fact one reviewer mentioned that one would have to look to a cd transport at the 2000 pound mark used to start touching the Melco as a digital transport.

The Melco n1a2 is supposed to have a Ethernet out to feed a streamer, and it is supposed to even clean up even tidal streams going into the streamer.

Any ideas if a dedicated music server would make much of a difference with downloaded hires tracks.

 

[drummerman]

How do you clean up a lossless file (assuming you are talking about Tidal Hifi)?

 

[davidf]

After hearing the difference between an Innuos Zen and ZENith, yes, they make a difference, which was why I replaced my previous range Zen Mini for a ZENith.

 

[newlash09]

After hearing the difference between an Innuos Zen and ZENith, yes, they make a difference, which was why I replaced my previous range Zen Mini for a ZENith. 

Did you also happen to listen to the Melco n1a or the n1a2 by any chance. Apart from the zenith having an inbuilt CD ripper and a dedicated control app, is there anything else that seperates them.

Also understand that the new zenith's can act as a roon core as well as a player. And same will be available to existing zenith's via a firmware update. Never tried roon before, so don't know if it's reason enough to choose the innuos over the Melco. Thanks for your thoughts

 

[insider9]

Newlash with Melco using Upnp for Tidal I personally would not buy it. However good it may sound.

Innuos on the other hand with ability to run Roon or act as an endpoint is a much better proposition. That's me though.

 

[newlash09]

How do you clean up a lossless file (assuming you are talking about Tidal Hifi)?

In fact one reviewer compared a music server to a turntable and the dac to the phono stage

 

[newlash09]

Newlash with Melco using Upnp for Tidal I personally would not buy it. However good it may sound.

Innuos on the other hand with ability to run Roon or act as an endpoint is a much better proposition. That's me though.

Yeah even I've read that there is no dedicated app for Melco. Though I believe they are working on one presently.

Is the upnp app a real deal breaker for tidal or is the roon end point in the zenith a drawer , to choose the zenith. Considering that both have the same sound quality of course.

 

[insider9]

Problem is not with Melco being a render but with Upnp itself. That protocol wasn't made for audio and you can potentially have issues relating to WiFi connectivity, not passing bit perfect data, etc. This effectively means your tablet or smartphone is the source. Melco is only a render. Tablet streams content from Tidal and then passes it in on to Melco. Now consider how for instance Roon or even Spotify Connect does this. Tablet tells the server what to play and the server sends it directly to the device such as Innuos. Much better architecture. Device after it sends a command can be switched off and doesn't use any battery. With Upnp it's heavily reliant on the tablet/smartphone and WiFi performance. Too many things that can go wrong when you considering money spent.

Many manufacturers settle on combination of Upnp and Airplay. It's a lazy solution unfortunately that puts the software side on someone else. Sure they don't have to spend money developing many apps (Windows, Linux, iOS, many versions of Android, etc.) But they're at the mercy of app developers. And many that develop software are judged on user friendly interface not sound quality. These things are not at odds but don't usually have same focus.

I'm a big fan of Roon and I would not buy any equipment that can't at least work as an endpoint. Innuos devices are not without some flaws for Roon but decent nevertheless.

 

[newlash09]

Problem is not with Melco being a render but with Upnp itself. That protocol wasn't made for audio and you can potentially have issues relating to WiFi connectivity, not passing bit perfect data, etc. This effectively means your tablet or smartphone is the source. Melco is only a render. Tablet streams content from Tidal and then passes it in on to Melco. Now consider how for instance Roon or even Spotify Connect does this. Tablet tells the server what to play and the server sends it directly to the device such as Innuos. Much better architecture. Device after it sends a command can be switched off and doesn't use any battery. With Upnp it's heavily reliant on the tablet/smartphone and WiFi performance. Too many things that can go wrong when you considering money spent.

Many manufacturers settle on combination of Upnp and Airplay. It's a lazy solution unfortunately that puts the software side on someone else. Sure they don't have to spend money developing many apps (Windows, Linux, iOS, many versions of Android, etc.) But they're at the mercy of app developers. And many that develop software are judged on user friendly interface not sound quality. These things are not at odds but don't usually have same focus.

I'm a big fan of Roon and I would not buy any equipment that can't at least work as an endpoint. Innuos devices are not without some flaws for Roon but decent nevertheless.

That was very informative indeed. The Melco will surely be out of contention if they don't get their own app.

I remember reading your post on roon probably a year or two ago. And remember you loved it and recommended it back then too

 

[insider9]

Is something you could run of a PC right now. You could actually use Yamaha WXC-50 albeit via Airplay as one of the endpoints. Not ideal but it would work rather well. Or a direct connection to your 2Qute.

You can get a free trial and see how good the software is. It has to be with his much they charge. Best part it is continuously developed. Developers listen to feedback and updates are frequent and always for the better.

 

[Womaz]

Insider 9 makes some very good points above.

I purchased the Melco in Nov 2015 and I was told the app was just around the corner. Well thats some corner I would say.The lack of an app would stop me buying it, although it made a big difference to the SQ in my set up.

I use Linn Kazoo app which is good, but I think i have now used 4 apps since I get the Melco

 

[Womaz]

Problem is not with Melco being a render but with Upnp itself. That protocol wasn't made for audio and you can potentially have issues relating to WiFi connectivity, not passing bit perfect data, etc. This effectively means your tablet or smartphone is the source. Melco is only a render. Tablet streams content from Tidal and then passes it in on to Melco. Now consider how for instance Roon or even Spotify Connect does this. Tablet tells the server what to play and the server sends it directly to the device such as Innuos. Much better architecture. Device after it sends a command can be switched off and doesn't use any battery. With Upnp it's heavily reliant on the tablet/smartphone and WiFi performance. Too many things that can go wrong when you considering money spent.

Many manufacturers settle on combination of Upnp and Airplay. It's a lazy solution unfortunately that puts the software side on someone else. Sure they don't have to spend money developing many apps (Windows, Linux, iOS, many versions of Android, etc.) But they're at the mercy of app developers. And many that develop software are judged on user friendly interface not sound quality. These things are not at odds but don't usually have same focus.

I'm a big fan of Roon and I would not buy any equipment that can't at least work as an endpoint. Innuos devices are not without some flaws for Roon but decent nevertheless.

Not wanting to hijack the thread but this could be why I get stuttering at the end of some tracks........

 

[insider9]

It was first your thread that brought my attention to Melco then it was Newlash. It's unfortunate and for local streaming I'm sure it's awesome. The only improvement would be in WiFi connectivity whether router or device you're using.

I've had similar issues using Airplay and then a little issues with BubbleUpnp. Even Chromecast Audio with Spotify would have drop outs. Router upgrade was what was ultimately needed. However at that point Yamaha sorted out native Tidal support. And all worked well wirelessly and with little latency. Nowadays this side of audio becomes more important than ever.

 

[newlash09]

That was very enlightening. I don't have a apple computer. So not sure how to connect to wxc-50 via airplay for roon.

Also wanted to know if there are any sonic gains via roon, or is it only added flexibility and convenience.

I have dropped the idea of Melco for now. Only considering the innuos zenith for now. I also like the Sony HAP Z1ES. Don't know if it sounds at par with the zenith's. The biggest draw is Sony's DSEE. Which as per 'The absolute sound' review does a stellar job of upscaling lossy tracks to DSD. Infact he claimed it was the best internet radio he had ever heard.

I know that the popular opinion is that wave forms once truncated in compression, can't be accurately regenerated. But the Sony seems to be doing just that. Hence the dialemma.

Did you by any chance hear one.

 

[insider9]

No need for Apple computer. As long as any PC that can run Roon wheteher Linux, Windows or macOS is connected to the same network you will be able to use Yamaha as an endpoint (zone). That's because Yamaha supports Airplay.

As to upscaling I'm not a fan. I can switch it on in Roon and it actually changes how music sounds. Not subtle differences either. For me it's old fashioned same bit rates with a hint of DSP to clean up room interferance. Unless it's done inside a DAC and I have no choice

 

[newlash09]

Will see how roon works out once I get back home in 4 months time. If you don't mind, can you please post your system setup hierarchy.

Apart from roon, you are using room correction too. So was just wondering how the whole hifi chain is laid out.

For example mine is :

Nas + Chromecast ( CCA going optical into wxc-50 )> wxc-50 > chord 2 qute > parasound > PMC

 

[insider9]

It's a very simple setup at the minute

PC running Roon (which includes DSP) is plugged into Hegel Rost via optical and Hegel powers my Red Rose speakers. Click on the My System link in my signature for pictures.

Whenever I'm not doing serious listening I'm using BubbleUpnp to stream Tidal directly to my amp.

 

[newlash09]

Is the DSP inbuilt in roon software. Or are you using a seperate program for the same.

You do have a very effective setup there. Everything being used optimally I would say

I think there are several music servers available in the USA, that are running off a pc optimised for this purpose. Maybe I can find one, where I can install roon. And any additional DSP if required.

 

[insider9]

It's kind of basic but it works and sounds well.

DSP is one of Roon features. It needs to be set manually but the best part is should you have a server running many zones you can apply different DSP on each zone

In your case you could have Yamaha WXC-50 in one room playing something and another system in another room playing something else both corrected for each individual room. Roon would also adjust sampling rates if need be and could even upsample to DSD512 if you had sufficiently strong equipment.

 

[newlash09]

Roon seems to be worth every penny indeed. I could just get the Umik-1 as you previously advised , and inculcate DSP, instead of going for a seperate mini-dsp. That way I could also continue using the present external dac.

Thanks for your valuable advise. Since the innuos zenith acts as a roon core, I could use it straight away

Just managed to see the pics of your setup on my slow internet connection. Very nicely done indeed

I have almost the same chair with a seperate ottoman. I find the ottoman helps me sit longer

 

[ellisdj]

BubbleDS Next on Android is the best UPNP remote app I have seen so far - its pretty solid as well - drops occaisionally

 

[insider9]

I also have a footstool. It's not in pictures. Innuos can work as a core but its capabilities to run DSP and particularly upsampling are limited.

Good thing about Roon is that Server doesn't determine sound quality. It's the endpoint. The architecture is interesting as you can have one box doing all of it or a number of boxes. Very flexible solution. It also means you can run a decent PC that's not in the listening room as a server that won't cost nowhere near as much as audio grade stuff and just put money in a decent quality endpoint. It can for instance be Oppo, Bluesound, Auralic. List of Roon Ready devices keeps growing.

 

[insider9]

BubbleDS Next on Android is the best UPNP remote app I have seen so far - its pretty solid as well - drops occaisionally 

Didn't realise Bubble made one for Linn products. It's pretty much what I'm using when playing from my phone. It resembles BubbleUpnp as it's the same app developer.

 

[newlash09]

Can roon also do upsampling like the Sony hap z1es. That will be a worth while bonus if it does. As I have thousands of normal mp3's.

I just managed to read the user guide of mini DSP 2x4 HD. Does a impressive lot for the money. I believe you had tried the mini DSP before reverting to inbuilt DSP in the roon. Can you please elaborate your preference for roon, over the mini DSP. Sorry to bother you with my incessant doubts and queries. The more I dig the source part of the digital chain, the more confused iam getting .

My only requirement is a
1) high quality digital source to play my downloaded tracks, a majority of them being mp3's. And the HD tracks that I have started purchasing recently.
2) Have app control.
3) Needs to output via usb.
4) will be nice if it has a optical in for the CCA, but not really a deal breaker.
5) No need of an inbuilt dac
6) Will be perfect if it can stream tidal too.

Even if the above solution does not have built in DSP, I can always add the mini DSP 2x4 HD on the analogue outputs from the DAC. Thanks again for your time.

 

[insider9]

Can roon also do upsampling like the Sony hap z1es. That will be a worth while bonus if it does. As I have thousands of normal mp3's.

Can you please elaborate your preference for roon, over the mini DSP.

Ok, the answer to first question is yes. Roon can upsample upto whatever your DAC can process. 768kHz PCM or even DSD512 not a problem. However this (especially DSD) will require a powerfull PC. Normal upsampling of PCM should work on most reasonable PCs. I'm not a fan of upsampling so don't use this feature. But what I do like is the fact it can change sampling rates so for example if you have a DSD256 file and your DAC only goes up to DSD128. It can upsample one zone while downsampling another, etc.

Minidsp makes a lot of products so really depends on what you go for. I first went with 2x4 HD. Ultimately needed more channels so replaced it with OpenDRC DA8. Both these units accepted digial and output analogue. So limitation ultimately was DAC used however both sounded really good. I would prefer using something digital in and digital out so I can use a different DAC. But that adds to number of boxes. Also you will need one box per room. With Roon as long as your PC is capable you can correct every system in your house. Oh and room correction actually doesn't need that much processing power. It's mostly upsampling.

What I like about Roon that 99 times of a 100 you will not have to make massive equipment changes. It will work in any setup. Laptop to DAC via USB? No problem. Server via LAN to streamer or two? Fine. Streamer running Roon with a NAS (not using PC at all)? Sure. Additional endpoints with individual DSP? Ok. It will even work with equipment that's not Roon Ready via Airplay. The freedome to use whatever architecture works for you is massive.

And ultimately sound quality depends on the end point not server (unless they're the same thing). You can even have Raspberry Pi as Roon endpoint. Connected to whatever DAC you feel like.