Hello to you...actually, going back on my word a bit. The CD playback compared to my TT is terrible. I use Denon DCD 1500AE which has some digital outputs. Denon make really good CD players but mine is not so new ,so I assume the internal DAC is a bit oldish. Now, the question - if I buy an external DAC up to 400€ will it make a difference and make the sound at least similar to vinyl ? Or is it enough to buy a new CD player with better internal DAC than mine, what would be your suggestion ?
Mega difference...actually.
- Thread starter stereoman
- Start date
Gazzip
Well-known member
stereoman said:
If you want to make your CD playback sound more like vinyl then whenever playing a CD place a thick, woollen jumper over each loudspeaker. Then pour a very large bowl of rice crispies in between your loudspeakers (must be placed slightly off centre) and add milk. Finally sit back, brace yourself for those incredible (yet impossible) dynamics and enjoy the audio fire works (for at least 25 minutes). The experience is enhanced if you have a head cold.
Gazzip said:
Lol. Ok I got it...but I meant how to get more resolution and warm up the sound a bit from CD. A new DAC or a CD player.
insider9
Well-known member
You could always try Chord Mojo it's tonal balance is on the warm side and you could get it in your budget. It will only do so much though.
Perhaps a warmer sounding amp would be the answer?
Perhaps a warmer sounding amp would be the answer?
stereoman said:
id say change speakers. Amplification is decent and you can get the changes you want with better speakers, but I’d save a bit and go to 1000 to 1500 Euro or £ speakers. Also don’t use atlas hyper 2.0. I’ve been there with that cable which sapped dynamics and detail from my system. I’d recommend chord clearway speaker cable or some audioquest cables. More detail.
My advice is if you are spending on dacs near to the price of your speakers, put that cash ready for a speaker upgrade. Dacs are decent enough at the level you are at not to need to spend £500, which won’t bring huge improvements like a speaker upgrade would. You can always look at dacs later. That would be what I’d do. Whatever the dacs you have, a speaker upgrade will yield biggest improvements particularly with a cyrus 8 series amp which is good.
dont go along with people who talk about cyrus not being warm. The 8 series amps are more than capable and good balance. It’s just a reputation Cyrus get, not necessarily the truth. I wouldn’t try a chord dac. A waste of money for little change I’d project.
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Nice to read your opinion...ok , I get it. Yes I've been thinking about speakers' upgrade and true that Hyper 2.0 is much lacking in detail. I totally agree with you. Thanks for the recommendations, much appreciate.
newlash09
Well-known member
I'd agree with quest, on the dac part. The difference's in sound are so small, that it is the last thing to attempt before changing cables in a system upgrade 
Which CD's are you comparing against which vinyl albums or singles?stereoman said:
If it's 21st century chart topping / mainstream albums then you will find that the mastering of the vinyl version is ubiquitously better from a dynamic compression point of view.
There is nothing that any CD player / transport / DAC can do about that, regardless of the price / engineering excellence.
If you're comparing albums where the CD mastering is equally good or better than the vinyl version then that would imply that your CD player has some sort of technical fault. Try to borrow a different CD player or DAC. Or failing that I'd suggest you check out the Lampizator pages and buy one of his recommended CD players that can be bought for £20 to £50.
Be aware that you can, if you wish, get much better playback from your vinyl from different TT, arm, cart, phono stage combinations. Your Teac TN300 is OK for what it is, but there are much better engineered solutions out there.
lindsayt said:
Thanks guys. So it looks like it is a play between the speakers and Atlas cables. I'm very happy with the Vinyl playback on the system though. To be on the safe side I start with the cable change, if it won't improve then speakers.
rainsoothe
Well-known member
stereoman said:
For this, make sure you have Tellurium Q Black 2 on your list. Not the mk1, those are pretty lacking imo, but the reason I got the Black 2 was their combinatiion of detail retrieval and "analogueness".
Talking from my own recent experience the difference in presentation from my cdp and dac is remarkable.
lindsayt said:
it may be the case but you spend a lot more for vinyl with the tt, phono stage, cables etc for comparable sq to cd at any given price. So it’s not really an issue or concern for the type of system the op has.
What, you mean like £120 to £180 for one of the Sony PS turntables on UK ebay at the moment?QuestForThe13thNote said:
Plus under £100 for a used Japanese integrated amp with a phono section? Or £280 for a new NVA Phono 1? Or, for the OP, simply keep his existing amplification for £0?
And a brand new Denon DL-110 for £170?
It doesn't look like that at all to me. Any change in the speaker cables would affect vinyl and CD replay equally.stereoman said:
I thought that the issue here was that CD replay sounds a lot worse than vinyl in your system?
If you want to get CD sound quality up towards the level of vinyl in your system you will need to change either the CD player or the DAC or the CD's you are playing on it.
As for old DAC's, you might find this interesting reading:
http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TDA1541%20corner/TDA1541.html
it Looks like to me it could just be a preference thing to the op of what sound he likes best ie. vinyl over cd, and vinyl just working better in the system he has.
i wouldn’t expect a £500 Denon CD/sacd player of around ten years old having deficient dacs by age or modernity etc to the extent it makes it not compare with what looks like around £300 of relatively new/modern tt and phono stage. This is very much comparable I’d say, if anything the cd should compete better, hence why I think it’s a preference for vinyl and a more analogue sound. Maybe op could comment?
if anything adding a new dac to make a change to a sound more like vinyl, might not then suit the spec. That’s why I’d say changing the speaker to a better model would probably be best able to improve the sound already liked with vinyl and then make cd more appealing to this ideal too. Cables could similarly do that too.
And I don’t really think you could add a new dac that will take away from the digital sound you get from a digital source and make the cd sound like vinyl, as they are quite different, so if I’my thinking is correct of ops standpoint, I stand by my view a speaker change would be best and best v for m. Maybe a smoother design that brings out best of vinyl but as I say makes cd more acceptable or a speaker that makes them sound similar, which could be achievable too.
i wouldn’t expect a £500 Denon CD/sacd player of around ten years old having deficient dacs by age or modernity etc to the extent it makes it not compare with what looks like around £300 of relatively new/modern tt and phono stage. This is very much comparable I’d say, if anything the cd should compete better, hence why I think it’s a preference for vinyl and a more analogue sound. Maybe op could comment?
if anything adding a new dac to make a change to a sound more like vinyl, might not then suit the spec. That’s why I’d say changing the speaker to a better model would probably be best able to improve the sound already liked with vinyl and then make cd more appealing to this ideal too. Cables could similarly do that too.
And I don’t really think you could add a new dac that will take away from the digital sound you get from a digital source and make the cd sound like vinyl, as they are quite different, so if I’my thinking is correct of ops standpoint, I stand by my view a speaker change would be best and best v for m. Maybe a smoother design that brings out best of vinyl but as I say makes cd more acceptable or a speaker that makes them sound similar, which could be achievable too.
Quest, I can't equate a personal preference or system synergy for vinyl with Stereoman's description of:
"Mega difference... actually" and "The CD playback compared to my TT is terrible"
Do you think that Stereoman is grossly exagerating the differences between the 2 sources in his system?
I don't. I am basing my replies on the evidence presented by him. That's why I've been asking which CD's he's used to compare the 2 and whether he can borrow a CD player (or buy a good cheap one) to determine if there's a technical fault with his Denon.
"Mega difference... actually" and "The CD playback compared to my TT is terrible"
Do you think that Stereoman is grossly exagerating the differences between the 2 sources in his system?
I don't. I am basing my replies on the evidence presented by him. That's why I've been asking which CD's he's used to compare the 2 and whether he can borrow a CD player (or buy a good cheap one) to determine if there's a technical fault with his Denon.
Macspur
Well-known member
I have to agree, if the op likes the sq he gets from his TT through his speakers, it must be the CDP in question and as for DACS not sounding analogue, hooking my Sonos up to the Audiolab MDAC Plus, certainly had that effect.
One of my first CDP's was a Denon in the late 80's and it was awful... perhaps Stereoman could get something like the smaller well reviewed M DAC on home demo.
Mac
www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
One of my first CDP's was a Denon in the late 80's and it was awful... perhaps Stereoman could get something like the smaller well reviewed M DAC on home demo.
Mac
www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com
Hello. So to begin with. I made a test. Borrowed a german speaker cable Oehlbach and changed the speakers back to Canton for some time. The conclusion: Yes the TT sound is better but to my surprise not so much better than the same CD on Leemas. First of all, cable change was only a slight change, although more clinical and brighter did not improve the sound on Leemas much, what makes me 99% sure that cable change is of the slightest significance. It is totally true when you say the Hyper 2.0 is a bit muddy and lacks resolution , I totally agree - but on a new cable the most important aspects of the sound were not drastically improved. Secondy, my made in Japan Denon DCD 1500 AE has a Burr Brown 24bit 192Khz DAC. Which is old but quite good. Indeed on Cantons and new cable both TT and CD sounded really good. So it is true that new DAC will improve sound but if you possess a much newer than mine good CD player maybe its inbuilt DAC should be enough ? This I do not know unfortunately. You know better. And now the point. The only problem to my surprise ( as Quest suggested ) are my speakers. I had Xeros in the past brand new and out of the box they sounded excellent but it was quite a long time ago.I bought these Leemas recently again after a pause from ( Hi Fi hobby ) from a Hi Fi shop as demo pieces. From the beginnig I had the feeling that the sound was lacking but also was not the original sound as I remembered from the same speaker model a time ago. Every week my Leemas sound(ed) a bit different. Their cones seems to loosen now and again. So, again, seems that the speakers are playing up and that is why I get so much better sound on Leemas from TT - on Canton both sources sound really good with a slight advantage from TT of course. I really cannot say what the problem with the speakers is but it is them. And I also know that Xeros are very very good speakers. They still play good but as said TT on them sounds much more better. So time for new speakers I think... (?)
gasolin
Well-known member
If the turntable sounds good, than it wouldn't make sense to change amp,speaker or both, mabye the new phonostage from a new amd sounds worse than what you have and you will decrease the SQ from your turntable.
Warmer sounding speaker might make your turntable sound unnaturally warm, get a new dac or a new cdplayer, mabye the new denon DC-1600NE or marantz SA8005 or just try the well reviewed Marantz CD6005 or the new 6006, i like my marntz CD5005 alot, even when it's the cheapest marantz makes you can't hear that
Warmer sounding speaker might make your turntable sound unnaturally warm, get a new dac or a new cdplayer, mabye the new denon DC-1600NE or marantz SA8005 or just try the well reviewed Marantz CD6005 or the new 6006, i like my marntz CD5005 alot, even when it's the cheapest marantz makes you can't hear that
lindsayt said:
Hi Linsayt
i wouldn’t say he is exaggerating at all, no. But as I say, I think a lot comes down to preference, between a digital and analogue source. Not necessarily an absolute between one being rated worse than another, by everyone who hears that system. Also extent to which we all individually have different sensitivities and describe them. Add into the mix the tt may just work better with the cyrus and Leema speakers too, for most who hear that system.
interesting the CD player is a sacd type and I’d expect good detail with that. In what way is the playplack terrible comparatively Stereoman?
i think what we can all probably agree that changing speakers can have the most profound effects for the better though.
gasolin
Well-known member
mabye he doesn't play sacd's ?
New speakers doesn't change the diffrence that there is between the turntable and cdplayer
A new amp might, but that could be because the phonostage sounds different, so the difference between the cdplayer and turntable is smaller with a new amp
New speakers doesn't change the diffrence that there is between the turntable and cdplayer
A new amp might, but that could be because the phonostage sounds different, so the difference between the cdplayer and turntable is smaller with a new amp
gasolin said:
Am not necessarily advocating a warmer sounding speaker than current, but one that is warm to ops taste, but has better resolution. So you can get a warm rich sounding speaker which deals with resolution better, so it will make the CD player more acceptable to his taste. I don’t think you can max out on detail with the tt if the sound is rich and smooth bass wise. Add into the mix too a better speaker will be more natural, dynamic, punchier etc, leads to a more evolving experience. Also bear in mind that if a speaker provides a level of detail that is decent and better than current within the scope of these two sources being used in conjunction, you may not even hear any difference at all in detail between these sources on a new pair of speakers.
I’d try smaller atcs which I think would be lovely with the cyrus 8vs2. Really good balance of both worlds. Rich speakers plus good detailed amp.
a new speaker will change the difference between cd and tt to the extent it will make it more acceptable or even no longer of any concern, or as I say above, hardly any difference if any?. Spending a load of cash on a new CD player will be better put towards a speaker upgrade for me or potentially an amp upgrade, but I’d say speakers as I know that cyrus amp is decent and I think comparative to the cyrus the Leema speakers probably weaker relatively speaking.
gasolin
Well-known member
A cyrus 8vs2 could be used with active speaker since they have pre out so it would be easy to find a speaker with adjustments of the highs and low
Like genelec's adam audio
Whathifi review say Short of low-end oomph would that something op want's to have?
Like genelec's adam audio
Whathifi review say Short of low-end oomph would that something op want's to have?
gasolin said:
Exactly this is what I am thinking about right now...if speakers upgarde then maybe actives too. The good side of actives is indeed this acoustics adjustment and an inbuilt matching amp.
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