MCCAC Has Done a Terrible Job!!

[umbucker]

I own a Pioneer SC-LX85 and when I did the Full MCCAC test I settled in and was faily happy with the sound with my Tannoy Rvolution Signature 5:1 set up. However it wasnt until earlier this week when I moved from the MCCAC Memory onto the MEMORY 2 which was empty. The speakers jumped into life, i would say 75% increase in overall sound quality!!

When moving back to MCCAC it sounded like someone had drawn some think curtons infront of the speakers! How could MCCAC get it so wrong ? I was under the impression the was a highly sofisticated system to rival Auddyssey. I understand it is a machine and only a pair of good ears can set up a system properly but after hearing it with the settings off its now unlistenable with the MCCAC on!!

I will have to go down the route of pending time seting the whole system up manually but I am very disapointed as MCCAC was one the reasons I chose the LX85 over rivals at that price point.

Anyone else had major issues with MCCAC ?

 

[Frank Harvey]

What was it about the sound with the MCACC that you didn't like?

 

[umbucker]

As I say it was like someone had drawn some thick curtons infornt of the speakers, they lost any kind of definition and seperation, the stereo field was lost and the sound was just empty, and as though the amp couldnt power the speakers properly

Once removed it was as if the amp gained 3 x as much power and was able to push my tannoys as they should be

 

[RickyDeg]

I've laborated with MCACC on the LX83 and recently also the LX85 and I've never been convinced by it, certainly not more so than my current Audyssey MultEQ with Dynamic EQ. Though some people swear by it and love it. I got atleast decent results with the MCACC active but switching the EQ to 'off', though still the sound was far from what I expect from such a product. In my personal opinion it just doesnt work in my room and/or with my speakers regardless how carefully I set it up.

Perhaps its the same in your situation.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Have you switched anything off that is 'auto' or 'dynamic'?

 

[umbucker]

The only things I switched off was the auto system which compansated for compressed MP3 files. As far as I know everything else is just from the results of the MCCAC

Cheers

 

[umbucker]

One other thing though

Looking at the Speaker levels, the highest st speaker is the Centre Speaker at -6db the L and R are at -8 !! I dont understand why there isnt a speaker at 0dB and the other levels are worked around that ??

 

[michael hoy]

One other thing though

Looking at the Speaker levels, the highest st speaker is the Centre Speaker at -6db the L and R are at -8 !! I dont understand why there isnt a speaker at 0dB and the other levels are worked around that ??

Mine are at minus levels as well.

I do tend to run my in direct mode alot of the time.

 

[duaplex]

These levels are normal, all my speakers are operating on -db figures too. I have a radio shack sound meter that i use in addition and it opens up the sound nicely, I would highly recommend getting on of those. MCCAC is fantastic but its not accurate all the time. I find its out by a couple of DB's on every speaker.

Use it as a base measuremt and then up your DB's accordingly using a perssure meter.

 

[michael hoy]

These levels are normal, all my speakers are operating on -db figures too. I have a radio shack sound meter that i use in addition and it opens up the sound nicely, I would highly recommend getting on of those. MCCAC is fantastic but its not accurate all the time. I find its out by a couple of DB's on every speaker.

Use it as a base measuremt and then up your DB's accordingly using a perssure meter.

+1

Use a sound meter every time, MCACC is very good but tweaking it does give even better results.

 

[Anonymous]

MCACC sounded poor out of the box to me too - out of box Audyssey XT32 sounded better to me (I've owned receivers with both) BUT MCACCs greatest feature is the ability to copy to a memory setting then tweak to your hearts intent

one thing that you have to consider with MCACC is its single mic placement - and upper frequencies are very directional -therefore if you put slightly in the wrong place you may get results that are not great

I tend to do the following manual tweaks - YMMV:

(1) limit any change to +/- 4dB

(2) further to (1) - any frequency EQ above 1khz I tend to limit to +/- 2.5dB

(3) I remove all EQ tweaks at the 16khz - and set to 0 - its not really worth trying to EQ at that high a frequency IMO and can just make tweeter work harder

I tend to try and think of the curves - so if I've say a -5dB cut at 250 and -2.5dB cut at 500 - I'll reduce the -5dB cut to -4dB and to slighly compensate change the 500hz cut to -2dB - if that makes sense

with a bit of playing you can get fantastic results - and better sounding to me than XT32 etc - maybe not technically better but sounds AS YOU LIKE IT - thats the main thing

you may ask - why not leave the cuts as they are ? well the bands are quite wide on a 9 band EQ - and although you may be cutting to get rid of a room boosted frequency - you may also be cutting some frequencies within that band that weren't being boosted - therefore its all about compromise ....

 

[michael hoy]

one thing that you have to consider with MCACC is its single mic placement - and upper frequencies are very directional -therefore if you put slightly in the wrong place you may get results that are not great

You can tell the MCACC to use multiple mic postions.

 

[Chewy]

When I had my LX83, running the MCACC was a revelation, everything about the front soundstage improved; clarity, soundstage width, bass integration. I am very surprised to hear someone not liking the results.

You say the sound got better when you switched to memory 2. I am going from memory here (no pun intended) but does the MCACC not save a different EQ setting to the first three memory slots; front align, all-EQ, and balanced or something like that? - by switching to memory 2 is MCACC definately off and not just on a different EQ setting?

Im going from memory here, so forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree?

 

[michael hoy]

When I had my LX83, running the MCACC was a revelation, everything about the front soundstage improved; clarity, soundstage width, bass integration. I am very surprised to hear someone not liking the results.

You say the sound got better when you switched to memory 2. I am going from memory here (no pun intended) but does the MCACC not save a different EQ setting to the first three memory slots; front align, all-EQ, and balanced or something like that? - by switching to memory 2 is MCACC definately off and not just on a different EQ setting?

Im going from memory here, so forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree?

The settings are saved to memory 1, 2 and 3

Symmetry, All CH ADJ and Front Align.

 

[moon]

In my experience I have always found that Auddyssey can get it spectacularly wrong. I dont know about MCCAC.

Personaly found that you get the best results when setting up by ear. Our ears know what sounds good, so why not trust them.

I measure every speaker individually using a tape measure. Then I tweak each speakers db by half a DB each time till I get a well balanced 5.1 sound.

Over the next two weeks I may do some further tweaking as I begin to watch different types of program, but really its not that much hassle.

 

[moon]

In my experience I have always found that Auddyssey can get it spectacularly wrong. I dont know about MCCAC.

Personaly found that you get the best results when setting up by ear. Our ears know what sounds good, so why not trust them.

I measure every speaker individually using a tape measure. Then I tweak each speakers db by half a DB each time till I get a well balanced 5.1 sound.

Over the next two weeks I may do some further tweaking as I begin to watch different types of program, but really its not that much hassle.

 

[Chewy]

The settings are saved to memory 1, 2 and 3

Symmetry, All CH ADJ and Front Align.

So might the OP be actually listening to a different set of EQ settings when he switches to Memory 2 (one which he obviously prefers) rather than no EQ at all?

I remember on the LX83, I favoured All Channel Adjust, as it gave the most accurate results in my room, by EQing all channels independently.

I never liked the effect of Audessey, on previous recievers I owned and always set the speakers up manually, but that was not the case with MCACC which I thought was a great set-up process, and adjusts things such as group delay that you can't change manually.

As other have advised, I think running the MCACC, then checking its results for errors, and finally making any tweaks for personal preference, is the best bet. That said (and no disrepect to Moon), always use a SPL meter, never try and set-up by ear - even the most experienced HAA calibrators would not attempt to level in a full band test tone by ear. Get the calibration done accurately with a meter first, and then tweak speaker levels by group to get the sound you want - but do so knowing you are moving away from the optimum set-up that the original source material was designed to be played at.

 

[moon]

The settings are saved to memory 1, 2 and 3

Symmetry, All CH ADJ and Front Align.

So might the OP be actually listening to a different set of EQ settings when he switches to Memory 2 (one which he obviously prefers) rather than no EQ at all?

I remember on the LX83, I favoured All Channel Adjust, as it gave the most accurate results in my room, by EQing all channels independently.

I never liked the effect of Audessey, on previous recievers I owned and always set the speakers up manually, but that was not the case with MCACC which I thought was a great set-up process, and adjusts things such as group delay that you can't change manually.

As other have advised, I think running the MCACC, then checking its results for errors, and finally making any tweaks for personal preference, is the best bet. That said (and no disrepect to Moon), always use a SPL meter, never try and set-up by ear - even the most experienced HAA calibrators would not attempt to level in a full band test tone by ear. Get the calibration done accurately with a meter first, and then tweak speaker levels by group to get the sound you want - but do so knowing you are moving away from the optimum set-up that the original source material was designed to be played at.

Actually your advice is better than mine. Its only how I do things,Maybe I should us an Spl Meter. I will look into it. I still enjoy setting the levels using well known media rather than continually listening to test tones.

 

[michael hoy]

The settings are saved to memory 1, 2 and 3

Symmetry, All CH ADJ and Front Align.

So might the OP be actually listening to a different set of EQ settings when he switches to Memory 2 (one which he obviously prefers) rather than no EQ at all?

It is more than likely that what you said is happening, the OP will be listening to a different EQ unless they have cleared the memory.

I cleared out my memory 4 (M4) and it is shown below with my other memory settings, you will note all speaker levels have been set to the same levels and the distances set to zero.

 

[Anonymous]

The settings are saved to memory 1, 2 and 3

Symmetry, All CH ADJ and Front Align.

So might the OP be actually listening to a different set of EQ settings when he switches to Memory 2 (one which he obviously prefers) rather than no EQ at all?

It is more than likely that what you said is happening, the OP will be listening to a different EQ unless they have cleared the memory.

I cleared out my memory 4 (M4) and it is shown below with my other memory settings, you will note all speaker levels have been set to the same levels and the distances set to zero.

not unless he specifically copied one of the auto settings to memory 1 or memory 2 - sounds to me like they were blank

do the new Pioneers really do multi-point cal ? thats new from my Pioneer then

 

[michael hoy]

The settings are saved to memory 1, 2 and 3

Symmetry, All CH ADJ and Front Align.

So might the OP be actually listening to a different set of EQ settings when he switches to Memory 2 (one which he obviously prefers) rather than no EQ at all?

It is more than likely that what you said is happening, the OP will be listening to a different EQ unless they have cleared the memory.

I cleared out my memory 4 (M4) and it is shown below with my other memory settings, you will note all speaker levels have been set to the same levels and the distances set to zero.

not unless he specifically copied one of the auto settings to memory 1 or memory 2 - sounds to me like they were blank

do the new Pioneers really do multi-point cal ? thats new from my Pioneer then

When you run the MCACC it creates settings in M1, M2 and M3 so it may not have been empty.

It is only 3 point where as some do have 6 point postioning.

Perhaps not the same multi point as you were wanting.

 

[umbucker]

I have just run the MCCAC again and I can confirm that the results only save data to Memory 1 on the Pioneer SC-LX85 . Memory 2 and 3 are both blank, EQ, Speaker Levels ect are all at 0

That said, as suggested I have messed around with the setting Post MCCAC on Memory one to get results I am now happy with. I have altered the speaker levels slightly, and altered the EQ (in Symetry) to what I feel is correct for my listening position.

Cheers

 

[michael hoy]

I have just run the MCCAC again and I can confirm that the results only save data to Memory 1 on the Pioneer SC-LX85 . Memory 2 and 3 are both blank, EQ, Speaker Levels ect are all at 0

That said, as suggested I have messed around with the setting Post MCCAC on Memory one to get results I am now happy with. I have altered the speaker levels slightly, and altered the EQ (in Symetry) to what I feel is correct for my listening position.

Cheers

I now know what you are doing.

After running the full auto MCACC, I then go to auto MCACC and change the setting to leave the speaker settings as they are and re run the setup, this produces the three different memory settings and you can then flick between them and see which you prefer for your room.

Someone on here posted a very good guide for setting up MCACC, I will try to find it when I am at home.

 

[v1c]

This is one i found the most useful.

1) Set Reciever to MCAAC preset 1 (M1). Now Run Auto MCAAC with mic in you listening position (I taped the mic to the top of a two foot long shoe horn, and stuck the shoe horn inbetween the couch cushions, so the mic is right where my ears are during listening).

2) Go into Manual Sp Setup and change the SP settings if neccessary(crossover to 100hz for me and speakers to small)

3) Now re-run Auto MCAAC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings.

4) Now you have an Auto MCAAC calibration saved to M1 (....note: you must select which preset you want Auto MCAAC to save calibration data to before you enter the audio setup menu.) Now go into Data Management--------> Data Copy and copy M1's data to M2 and also to M3. Now you have carbon copies of this calibration in M1-M3.

5) Now go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb Measurement and get a reading on the the frequency response characteristics of your room. Be sure to select EQ OFF(standing waves not controlled for via MCAAC fliters) in the Reverb Measurement menu because you don't want the standing wave adjustements (EQ on) to be factored in to the room reverb measurments. Also make sure you haven't moved the mic.

6) After test tones are done, go into Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Reverb View , and you can analyze the frequency response of individual channels at various frequencies. Based upon that data, you would select the appropriate capture delay time for MCAAC to capture data during for the upcoming EQ calibration.

Change that time frame under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to whatever you decide is the appropriate capture delay time ....(Pioneer recommends 30-50 ms, but they encourage you to analyze the data under reverb view first and refer to the advanced MCAAc software manual for analysis purposes). Note: the default capture delay time is than 80-160 ms.

7) Change to MCAAC preset 2 (M2) before you run the new advanced EQ calibration with the new capture time. Go under Manual MCAAC--->EQ Professional------>Advanced EQ Setup to start the advanced EQ calibration, and MCAAC should make a more accurate calibration since it will now capture sonic information sooner after the speakers output sound, and get a read on what the frequency response is of the speakers themselves, and not the speakers and all the reverb which accumulates as time passes. (Default capture time is 80-160 ms and thus collects more reverb and less true speaker reading)

Now you should have an accurate calibration. Also, now you can easily compare the Auto MCAAC EQ effects that are stored in M1 with the advanced EQ effects in M2 while listening to content with a simple button press on the remote. You could also juice the base a few db in M3, and also compare running the base a bit hot to a flat calibration that you have in M1 and M2.

Until i follwed this i was disapointed with my LX71.

So it's worth giving it a try.

 

[michael hoy]

Thats the one v1c.

I found it a very useful guide when I first changed to a Pioneer amp.