davedotco said:
Thank you too.
I thought I wouldnt exactly be able to hear my amp's limitations. But apparently my ears do.
Thank you too.
I thought I wouldnt exactly be able to hear my amp's limitations. But apparently my ears do.
I will test the Kefs, but im also thinking about comparing the marantz to another system..
These seem to be stronger than the Marantz: Cambridge minx xi (add airplay with airport express) or Nad D3020 or D7050.
And able to get more out of speakers?
Does anyone know/think that they can properly drive the concept 20s?
These seem to be stronger than the Marantz: Cambridge minx xi (add airplay with airport express) or Nad D3020 or D7050.
And able to get more out of speakers?
Does anyone know/think that they can properly drive the concept 20s?
skysounds said:
Sorry, to bring my thread up again. But just wanted to quote muself here.
I now auditioned the Zensors 3 with a NAD D7050 demo model and they still sound like they are playing in the box most of the time. I thought this was getting less and placing them with more space around them did help a bit. It also might be a bit less with the NAD, but it's still there to my ears.
I have been listening a lot to the Concept 20's and have got used to their sound, so this could also be an influence. The concept 20 project the music so beautifully into the room. Also can't really hear much difference when I play the 20's with the Marantz or Nad.
I thought a stronger amp would help. My ears can't hear much difference in dynamics/power etc. between amps, or well, at least these 2 amps.
This is not a very powerful amplifier, very good and 'different' in a number of ways but a powerhouse it is not.
However I think the Dalis are not for you, maybe the Concept 20s are the ones, I think they are excellent but have only heard then with better amplification.
The whole network amplifier thing is a bit of an issue, a few decent budget models, including your Marantz, but 'better' quality amplifiers with network connectivity and other related functionality are thin on the ground.
However I think the Dalis are not for you, maybe the Concept 20s are the ones, I think they are excellent but have only heard then with better amplification.
The whole network amplifier thing is a bit of an issue, a few decent budget models, including your Marantz, but 'better' quality amplifiers with network connectivity and other related functionality are thin on the ground.
They are very good the concepts for me they gel very well with the exposure 1010 amp so it might be well worth a listen.
It also helps to place the speakers on there own stands as these will helps the speakers to dissapear and give a fantastic 3D sound.
Im currently listening to John Grant, Pale Green Ghosts WOW what at a fantastic album. my favourite track is Vietnam.
For me the Concepts can do better than the Marantz or the Nad thats how good they are.
Enjoy
It also helps to place the speakers on there own stands as these will helps the speakers to dissapear and give a fantastic 3D sound.
Im currently listening to John Grant, Pale Green Ghosts WOW what at a fantastic album. my favourite track is Vietnam.
For me the Concepts can do better than the Marantz or the Nad thats how good they are.
Enjoy
davedotco said:
I guess not. I really don't understand the price. The one I have is a demo and cheaper but new it's almost double the price of the Marantz, and what does it have extra? A bit more power/better sound (if you can hear it), spotify connect instead of normal spotify and bluetooth..
But the Marantz has other things, the NAD doesnt have, like gapless playback, treble/bass control, analogue inputs and of course the cd player. And network music appears on the screen.
skysounds said:
The technology in the D7050 is innovative, genuine PWM power amplifier, very unusual and quite different from the Class D switching amplifier in the Marantz. In the right setup it can sound terrific, but other times, meh.
The '610 has certain limits but within it's parameters it is great. It works well with simple, sensitive speakers and more complex designs tend to push things beyond comfortable. A lot of people will hear the way these combo's behave and come to very different conclusions, what works for me may not work for you and vice versa.
My choice would be something like the Q100 or Zensor 1s, simple and uncomplicated, others like the small Monitor Audio. If I was looking at more complex and difficult speakers I would choose different amplication
It's true that there definitely is a gap in the market for a real '610 equivalent, one rung up. As much as anything it amazes me that the manufacturers must perceive there isn't a market for such a device. I've resisted buying a '610 at least twice because I don't want something that sounds worse than the PM66KI I already own, Buying one to use just as a source for the PM66KI partly defeats the object of buying an all-in-one, and seems a waste of at least some money.
The Mad One said:
'they gel very well' Applicable lol
Yes, I read everywhere that you need to buy them with their dedicated 'gel'
stands. I am curious about those stands.Not familiar with your music, but great you enjoy them so much! Your amp looks very nice, but no option for me unfortunately as there's no digital input.
davedotco said:
I'm sure the D7050 can sound brilliant with more oomph and everything. But I dont think it's for me.
I would say the dali zensors 3 are more difficult to drive than the concept 20's. I guess that's just me. On this forum the zensors seem to be the ideal speaker for many people and all sorts of amps. Or it's just that I don't feel their sound.
Not sure why I would try the zensors 1? They are the smaller zensor 3..
Will try the Kef's. The way matthewpiano described them and listening to the concept 20's made me curious. They also project the music into the room like the concept 20's.
What about the KEF R100s. I've been reading about these quite a lot and also about the marantz m-cr603/610 being matched with these speakers. They are double of the Q100s price, but as I'm not going for the expensive NAD, well, why not go for a more expensive speaker.. The speaker makes the sound (in my ears). Or is it a bit of crazy to pair the Marantz with these not exactly budget speakers..
skysounds said:
I keep explaining this and you keep ignoring what I say.
The Marantz MCRs are neat, clever devices that make an awful lot of their modest power amplifier and tiny power supply. They are at their best when presented with a simple undemanding speaker, hence my suggestion for the Zensor 1 and Mathewpiano's for the Q100.
You keep insisting on more and more expensive speakers, Concept 20s and now R100, both of which bring something to the table, even with the MCRs, but both will be limited by the amplifier and in time, this will become obvious and irrirating.
davedotco said:
Well, I'm sorry that I ignored you..
It couldve been that the R100 are as easy to drive as the Q100/Q300.. yes they are more expensive, but exeptions could excist right? I dont know about that. I'm reading online that they're not that difficult to drive.
Whathifi thinks the Concept 20s are a good match with the Cambridge Minx xi. Are they exaggerating?
dont skimp on the speakers for the mcr610, just because its a mini system it just sounds much better with decent speakers over typical budget boxes, of course as long as you dont go for over kill, I have known it to come packaged with kef ls50 which seems a bit much, its not getting the best out of them, something like dali zensors 1 or 3 will sound great with it, I have even tried my ae109 with it with good results, clean and weighty ,even to what I would call loud , although I didnt want to push in case it clipped, it must have been near ! ....I do realise its limited power, but there was no sign of harshness at all
oh i just realized you are not keen on the dalis, what about the ae101 or 301, always seem to get overlooked in favour of kef, q acoustics, and the usual stuff etc , the 301 are rated at 5 stars by whf
peterpiper said:
Thanks for your reply. Yes, the zensors 3 were no success.
I noticed the AE301 on whathifi, but I'm afraid the Acoustic energy speakers are hard to find in my country (Netherlands). I don't know why.
It's a complexity thing.
Put more expensive, complex speakers on the end of a MCR and the first thing you hear is how nice the speakers are.
Just as happened with the Zensor 3, more extended listening will start to show up the flaws, some things still sound pretty good but overall something is not right and you begin to hear it. It's difficult, some do not seem to hear the issues, others do and understand what is going on straight away.
It all depends on what you here and what is important to you, I have my own views and would not use more reveiling speakers on the MCR, others seem to think differently. I don't understand this view, the limitations of such combinations are so obvious, I find it hard to listen, but I do understand that others simply hear things differently.
Put more expensive, complex speakers on the end of a MCR and the first thing you hear is how nice the speakers are.
Just as happened with the Zensor 3, more extended listening will start to show up the flaws, some things still sound pretty good but overall something is not right and you begin to hear it. It's difficult, some do not seem to hear the issues, others do and understand what is going on straight away.
It all depends on what you here and what is important to you, I have my own views and would not use more reveiling speakers on the MCR, others seem to think differently. I don't understand this view, the limitations of such combinations are so obvious, I find it hard to listen, but I do understand that others simply hear things differently.
Complex, yes for sure. For someone like me, it will be more difficult to hear. I just had minisets before the Marantz which came with their own speakers, so I never listed to them before I bought them.davedotco said:
So, I auditioned the KEF Q100s. And I must say: I think I understand how the concept 20s 'struggle' with the Marantz. Although they still sound nice. I believe the concept 20 and Q100s are quite similar in sound (at least on the marantz). The concept 20s seem to push vocals a bit more but it's with an airy echo kind of sound. With the KEFs the vocals are a more 'clear'.. They also sound a bit wider overall in sound and more neutral I guess, which I like very much. I guess they will keep you listening for longer. They feel more 'easy' on the ears.. if that makes sense..?
Btw. There are many people disliking the look of the KEFs.. I really dont get it! I find them great looking speakers (got them in white). Clean/minimalistic.
davedotco said:
I appreciate where you are coming from but.... I listened to some Tannoy V1 in the shop with the mcr and it souned ok, but felt it was missing a lot of what it could offer soundwise, a bit compressed , lacking in scale etc I would probably get bored with that sound after a while, background listening stuff , When I tried the dalis, there was more apparent refinement and detail and the depth was there, I think any flaws will become apparent when pushed to higher levels, but i dont here them at the moderate levels I listen to , even after extened listening its still an engaging sound (for such a system), any flaws are with the recordings, even on spotify, maybe I have not got golden ears, but it sounds good to me, I think the dalis and such speakers are the sweet spot for a set up like this, I have also known the mcr610 be used with dynaudio 2/7 , now I think thats going to far, not only that they are only 4 ohm, oh dear!
To be honest the issues I am talking about are not hard to hear, but they do not always show up in a comparitive demonstration where what tends to impress is the improved presentation of the 'better' speaker.
However listen longer and the background issues start to come to the fore, some people pick up on it quicker than others and for some it isn't an issue at all. It is difficult to describe but I would say it is the way the music fails to project away from the speakers, if fails to 'swell' into the louder pieces and as the music becomes more complex it loses clarity and definition. These kind of issues really just creep up on you, the disatisfaction comes first, the analysis later.
However listen longer and the background issues start to come to the fore, some people pick up on it quicker than others and for some it isn't an issue at all. It is difficult to describe but I would say it is the way the music fails to project away from the speakers, if fails to 'swell' into the louder pieces and as the music becomes more complex it loses clarity and definition. These kind of issues really just creep up on you, the disatisfaction comes first, the analysis later.
davedotco said:
The thing with the concept 20s is that the speaker projects the music into the room, that's how I 'experience' them. Which I guess it makes it more difficult to hear those 'issues', with a lot of music. Does that make sense?
I really enjoy their sound and a lot of songs sound good to me. Sometimes I find that the KEFs 'take care' of the music better. But I like the warmth of the 20s.
Enoying the Kefs clarity too.. ohh decisions!
What I'm still wondering about is that whathifi find the cambridge minx xi system a good match with the concept 20. They are not the only one putting these together I believe. How does a reviewer match systems/speakers? Or is it just because the people that will buy it probably wont hear any 'issues'? I'm sure that many people just look for reviews and then buy the combination they read about. I'm auditioning a couple of speakers, but not everyone who's buying an all-in-one does that. Many people cant even do that.
davedotco said:
i do know what you are getting at here,I have heard this issue with the amps i have owned, mainly bugdet ones so far,
just like matthewpiano i have been swapping amps then selling them on not having been completey happy with them, issues become apparent after a while, the yamaha AS500 to dry sounding and boxed in, NAD C352 (dull as dishwater) were the most dissapointing, the Marantx Pm6005 not bad, but the Rotel I now have seems to let the music breath better, with better space and depth of field, despite its apparantly lower power, although the transformer seems to consume more power than the other amps, which make me believe some of these power ratings manufactures boast are misleading, maybe rotel are very conservative. ot its an inefficient design , but its a keeper,
BTW I have also owned onkyo9030 , CA azur 650a, marantz PM4001 (many moons ago) some sony model, Sanui AUG30x , kenwood 3020se
anyway back to the MCR610
kukulec
Well-known member
kukulec said:
one of the better ones of the budget crowd imo , treble sounds a touch soft though to me,its easy on the ears and detailed enough, and bass is ample, the tone controls are not sublte though !! , using a massive 12db cut and boost , and if used in conjunction with the 'phase bass' switch it can push the cones to uncontrolled boom, best left switched off, it sounds more natural
what hifi has a good review of it
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