Many problems Sony 46W4500

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:Very Annoyed:

Well, we've had a range of W4500 models in - not just the one of each - and haven't had faults with any of them. We've also seen perfectly functioning models in shops, too (OK, take the point about poor set-up - they certainly had that - but no clouding) - we do a lot of 'mystery shopping' as well as reviewing before we choose our Awards.

Also, Sony - after much pressure from ourselves - finally admitted there was a problem with its AV receivers (not working with Sky HD) and issued fixes/delayed distribution of an entire product line, at great cost.

So, consumer and consumer-magazine pressure CAN make a difference. We'll keep on it - I suspect part of the delay (as was the case with the receiver issue) is them working out the logistics of how they're going to deal with this issue. (Product recall? Audit of all models in stock? etc etc). Would be nice if they told us that, though....

Even if you have 3-4 sets Clare you can't really make a case on reliability on a new product. Yes, you can say how well it performs, and how great it is to operate, but you have no idea if the set will have faults and batch problems.

As for the set up of Tv's in shops.. I was not saying that the sets that people on here have had are not faulty. They obviously are faulty. No, what I was trying to say is that many people who buy Tvs without an really knowledge of the products they are buying will think what they see in the shop is normal. I can imagine many of these sets being passed off to people who think it is fine. Which is why many manufacturers will have to be dragged screaming and shouting to admit there are any problems.

And speaking of complaints why does this site give my computer so many problems? If I sit here reading items on here for more than 5 minutes, it goes to sleep and freezes taking all other sites I might be on at the same time.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Digitalpete:

Do remember that any product over £100 purchased in the UK is automatically warranted for 5 or 6 years this includes over the internet. I was informed about this by trading standards and have just had my Panasonic DVD recorder repaired by Panasonic even though it was 20 months old.

You must keep you original invoice and if you can purchase it on a credit card because the credit card company is also liable.

Don't be put off by retailers, manufacturers or credit card companies.

Good luck all.

Sorry Digi Pete,but this has already been discussed and simply aint true.Your warranty is your original contract,your credit cards responsibility is against misrepresentation/failure to supply and in some cases insurance for a specific period named by the card company.Forget Trading Standards on this issue,- if goods perform to their spec within the the warranty period originally agreed at purchase ,end of story.Only goodwill from the retailer/manufacturer goes beyond that.Wishful thinking is one thing,trading reality is another.

 

[Anonymous]

Ravey Gravey Davy:Digitalpete:

Do remember that any product over £100 purchased in the UK is automatically warranted for 5 or 6 years this includes over the internet. I was informed about this by trading standards and have just had my Panasonic DVD recorder repaired by Panasonic even though it was 20 months old.

You must keep you original invoice and if you can purchase it on a credit card because the credit card company is also liable.

Don't be put off by retailers, manufacturers or credit card companies.

Good luck all.

Sorry Digi Pete,but this has already been discussed and simply aint true.Your warranty is your original contract,your credit cards responsibility is against misrepresentation/failure to supply and in some cases insurance for a specific period named by the card company.Forget Trading Standards on this issue,- if goods perform to their spec within the the warranty period originally agreed at purchase ,end of story.Only goodwill from the retailer/manufacturer goes beyond that.Wishful thinking is one thing,trading reality is another.

Thats like saying the English Legal System has no legs to stand on when it comes to consumer products. The law entitles you to 5-6 years if you can prove the set was faulty. Yes it may cost legal fees and fees for an expert to test the item in dispute but the case remains that you still have you legal rights as a course of action if you choose to take that path.

Its not a matter of goodwill and if anyone tells you that then they clearly need to read current UK legislation.

 

[Anonymous]

I bought a 40W4500 and S350 blue ray package a week ago from John Lewis which is linked to a Virgin V+ box. Watching Michael Clayton in widescreen the evening that the package was delivered I noticed light in the in the top left and top right corners of the screen, particular noticable as it is widescreen and a dark film in parts. This was before I had ever heard of the clouding phenomena, I just assumed that the set was faulty. Other than this the TV is superb especially via HD and blue ray although the sound is disappointing but I was expecting that. I contacted John Lewis customer service and asked for the set to be replaced, there was a large sigh and I was informed that the individual I spoke to deals with a lot of Sony LCD light issues and that the problem was a trait of Sony LCD TV's and that the set would not be replaced as a consequence, however they would offer me a full refund, I was also asked if I had spoken to Sony about this issue; I hadn't but I did and after being placed on hold for a while whilst their "engineers" were consulted I was told that this was normal for all LCD TV's and that I should live with it.

So there you are I bought the TV having never heard of clouding and assuming the set to be faulty would like it to be exchanged, however, there is obviously a reluctance by John Lewis to replace the set, i can only assume that this is because their experience leads them to believe that any replacement will be similarly affected. Don't know what to do know as I like the set a lot and it even works well with football, something that I have seen friends earlier generation TV's such as the 40W2000 really struggle with (I assume the 100Hz and motionflow set to standard are making the difference here) and i'm worried about getting an even worse example. Will probably give them a call and try again to get an exchange otherwise its a refund and something else, ny thoughts on the best of the rest anyone?

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Even if it were law ,Ginder, the word stoic (in this case expensive with no gain) springs to mind.Please cite the relevant legislation.

 

[Anonymous]

This topic makes an interesting read. I find the number of models available from one manufacturer an absolute nightmare! I'm amazed that Sony quality control has not identified the problem and that they have not provided an adequate response to date. This cannot do their reputation any favours and I can understand why consumers will hold off purchasing a set if it is likely that an entire batch is faulty. The pictures of the set at the start of the topic look horrendous and I would certainly demand a replacement! I have a small screen Bravia which does not suffer from backlight bleed but has a very disappointing viewing angle and struggles to produce anything vaguely black...but of course this cannot be compared to a large screen set. Call me a 'stick in the mud' but i'll hang on to my Wega Trinitron for the moment...no backlight bleed, no clouding, no image blur, pure blacks, fantastic colours, excellent viewing angle...its not HD but hey i'd be watching primarily SD pics in any event...oh and its made in the UK 😉 Yes i'm sure many of you will hate me for not embracing a (relatively) new (and flawed) technology 😉 lol...Roll on OLED!

'Trinitron bleed'...sorry couldn't resist haha! (yes I know its not possible)

 

[matthewpiano]

I can't comment on the issues some users are reporting here on the W-series sets but I would re-iterate to all the people who might be wavering in their decision to buy one that of all the ones we have sold we have not had one complaint from a customer about any aspect of the set's performance.

 

[Anonymous]

I bought a 40w4500 and a sony 350 blu-ray 4 weeks ago and in daytime it was super great, but at night I had the same problem with a lot of clounding, like many others. Just read some of the very long thread about w4500 on http://www.another site/forums/lcd-televisions/807191-sony-w4500-series-100hz-50-000-1-dynamic-contrast-dlna.html. On page 191 I have posted some pictures from this evning, but you have to log in to see them.
I think itïs very poor of sony to say itïs normal to have clouding, if itïs in such a scale that it effect the picture while you are watching movies. I know that every set can have a little clouding and that itïs best to have a little light in the room, when you watch lcd-tv, but I have calibrated my set and put backlight down to 2 and still itïs too much. So 4 days ago I was lucky to get my set returned and got another w4500. My hope was high, that this one was better with little or no clouding, but no, still too much clouding to accept. Some people on another site have experienced that their clouding would go away after a week or two (100 hours use), so I will give it a little more time, like the first one I had, because itïs really a very very nice set.
But why has Sony such a bad quality control and so poor customer service, thatïs what I dont understand. W4500 is a great seller, but it will soon fall back on sony, if too many people get a bad apple and an arrogant reply.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi I recently purchased the w4500 from Amazon made in Spain 10/08. I stumbled upon this forum while searching for information on these problems on the net. I used to have a 32" LG lcd which didn't exhibit any of these problems. So far I have noticed some backlight bleed in the corners when viewing head on, but the image degrades further when viewing from any sort of angle (refer image below). This only really applies during a black screen. I can't really fault the picture quality of this set. I watched 'into the blue' on blu ray and the image literally blew me away... that was until I got to the darker scenes.

While I was trying to set the picture settings, i noticed that on a black screen (such a one without any input), when you scale back brightness there is little improvement to the black levels below 50 (although when the room is well lit it looks close to). Has anyone else noticed this? has anyone tried calibrating using the THX optimiser? Can you see the shadow under the THX logo during the brightness calibration (I couldn't)?

I took a couple of pics with my phone cam (one in a dark room and two in a well lit room) which while quality wise aren't too impressive, you get the picture:

 

[Anonymous]

Ravey Gravey Davy:Even if it were law ,Ginder, the word stoic (in this case expensive with no gain) springs to mind.Please cite the relevant legislation.

Its not a matter of "if it were law", it is the law and a product that costs hundreds of pounds and last just over 12 months is not a reasonable period of time.

As for the legislation please read up the Sale of Goods Act 1979. You have your full statutory rights under Civil Law to cover you, all you need to do is keep your receipt.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

Back to the problem of the tv, the pics posted above look pretty bad, but could that be due to viewing angle? My tv clouds more when you look at it from a bigger angle, the only thing is LCDs dont have much of a viewing angle do they?

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Ginder:Ravey Gravey Davy:Even if it were law ,Ginder, the word stoic (in this case expensive with no gain) springs to mind.Please cite the relevant legislation. Its not a matter of "if it were law", it is the law and a product that costs hundreds of pounds and last just over 12 months is not a reasonable period of time. As for the legislation please read up the Sale of Goods Act 1979. You have your full statutory rights under Civil Law to cover you, all you need to do is keep your receipt. http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

I am not sure that you have read this article yourself or you are cherry picking phrases to suit your interpretation however I shall pick out the bits which are relevant.

" For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement)."

This is a statute of limitation,not a warranty period.

and below this ,as explanation in frequently asked questions

Q3. Are all goods supposed to last six (or five) years?

No, that is the limit for bringing a court case in England and Wales (five years from the time of discovery in Scotland's case). An item only needs to last as long as it is reasonable to expect it to, taking into account all the factors. An oil filter would usually not last longer than a year but that would not mean it was unsatisfactory.

And then just to contradict your other statement:

"Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt to claim my rights?

No. In fact the trader doesn't have to give you a receipt in the first place so it would be unfair to say that you had to produce one. However, it might not be unreasonable for the shop to want some proof of purchase, so look to see if you have a cheque stub, bank statement, credit card slip etc., and this should be sufficient."

All the above in quotation marks are taken from the page you cited.Not sure how much plainer it can be.

 

[Anonymous]

The offical Sony statement, just in...

Statement: Sony BRAVIA KDL-46W4500 TV Clouding (Uniformity)
To achieve a high level of performance and picture clarity, Sony
utilizes a very bright backlight setting. This helps deliver the
brightest picture possible, as well as exceptional picture clarity even
with the darkest image sources.

However, under certain dark viewing conditions, the setting may cause
the screens on some of these televisions to exhibit a slight uneven
uniformity, especially for a blank screen with no video source. This
condition is not normally visible under typical viewing situations, such
as watching movies or television programs, and should not affect viewing
experience.

Should customers find that this condition affects their viewing
enjoyment; we suggest adjusting the following settings to minimize this
condition:

1) Setup Menu - select - Light Sensor: ON
2) Setup Menu - select - Power Saving: Low or High

3) Picture Menu -- Reduce the Backlight Level eg 'Standard' or 'Cinema
mode' (Factory Setting = 'MAX')

SONY has its own criteria for uneven uniformity which was created from
past experience that satisfies a high majority of our customers.
SONY believes the level of uneven uniformity is not defective and does
not plan to recall any of its products.
ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

BWS:any thoughts on the best of the rest anyone?Panasonic 46PZ80 or 50PZ80 (4" bigger for only £1150). Great blacks,colours,contrast, motion handling, no gaming lag etc. etc.

 

[Anonymous]

Richard Melville:

The offical Sony statement, just in...

Statement: Sony BRAVIA KDL-46W4500 TV Clouding (Uniformity)
To achieve a high level of performance and picture clarity, Sony
utilizes a very bright backlight setting. This helps deliver the
brightest picture possible, as well as exceptional picture clarity even
with the darkest image sources.

However, under certain dark viewing conditions, the setting may cause
the screens on some of these televisions to exhibit a slight uneven
uniformity, especially for a blank screen with no video source. This
condition is not normally visible under typical viewing situations, such
as watching movies or television programs, and should not affect viewing
experience.

Should customers find that this condition affects their viewing
enjoyment; we suggest adjusting the following settings to minimize this
condition:

1) Setup Menu - select - Light Sensor: ON
2) Setup Menu - select - Power Saving: Low or High

3) Picture Menu -- Reduce the Backlight Level eg 'Standard' or 'Cinema
mode' (Factory Setting = 'MAX')

SONY has its own criteria for uneven uniformity which was created from
past experience that satisfies a high majority of our customers.
SONY believes the level of uneven uniformity is not defective and does
not plan to recall any of its products.

Hmm... So Sony are not actually admitting there is a fault. Which is what I said they would do. They are basically saying that if most people are happy with the TV then that is fine with them. They are claiming it is the way they set up their sets to get maximize brightness. They do not plan to recall any of their products. Which means anyone thinking of buying one of these TV's should think long and hard before buying, because they will have problems getting anything done if they are not happy with their set.

As some one who prefers Plasma this obsession with brightness in LCD is just plain odd in my view. For my money, if you are buying a 46" plus TV plasma is the way to go.

 

[Anonymous]

Im a big fan of Sony products and love my 32D3000 set but this doesnt sound right to me. Im looking for a bigger TV at the momment and thought the W4500 looked perfect. This clouding problem only seem to exists on the 46 Inch models not the 40, as far as I can make out.

I think at the price Sony are asking for this set its not worth the risk at the momment. Perhaps when the inevitable January sales are on - this set would be worth taking a chance but not right now.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, this is the response I was dreading. I like how they say reduce the backlight even though with backlight on min you still get lovely big puddles in the corners when watching anything with letterbox bars in a dim room. This statement will probably make it nigh on impossible to get a refund/ switch the set.

Kiss my a$$ Sony.

 

[Anonymous]

Its certainly looking that way to me but other 46" LCD models do not seem to have this issue. The new Samsung sets are supposed to be excellent.

 

[Anonymous]

King of Kings:

This clouding problem only seem to exists on the 46 Inch models not the 40, as far as I can make out.

No it happens on the 40" as well. I swapped my original one and the replacement did exactly the same. Once the screen gets up to temperature it must overheat and bleeds in the top corners. Its a design flaw rather than a technical fault.

 

[Anonymous]

I've been a silent watcher of the forum for the last week, prior to which I was ready to buy the 46W4500.

I've almost certainly decided against buying this set as a result of people's experiences, but I think it's only fair all those with the problems try out ALL 3 settings Sony have suggested and then post back with the results.

My gut feeling is probably the same as everyone else - the setting's won't miraculously solve the problem and probably won't even help it! There is however a chance, however slim, it may reduce the problem to a level which does not interfere with regular viewing, in which case, it may warrant the purchase. All the same - the proof is in the pudding as they say.

 

[D.J.KRIME]

Very Annoyed:Richard Melville:

The offical Sony statement, just in...

Statement: Sony BRAVIA KDL-46W4500 TV Clouding (Uniformity)
To achieve a high level of performance and picture clarity, Sony
utilizes a very bright backlight setting. This helps deliver the
brightest picture possible, as well as exceptional picture clarity even
with the darkest image sources.

However, under certain dark viewing conditions, the setting may cause
the screens on some of these televisions to exhibit a slight uneven
uniformity, especially for a blank screen with no video source. This
condition is not normally visible under typical viewing situations, such
as watching movies or television programs, and should not affect viewing
experience.

Should customers find that this condition affects their viewing
enjoyment; we suggest adjusting the following settings to minimize this
condition:

1) Setup Menu - select - Light Sensor: ON
2) Setup Menu - select - Power Saving: Low or High

3) Picture Menu -- Reduce the Backlight Level eg 'Standard' or 'Cinema
mode' (Factory Setting = 'MAX')

SONY has its own criteria for uneven uniformity which was created from
past experience that satisfies a high majority of our customers.
SONY believes the level of uneven uniformity is not defective and does
not plan to recall any of its products.

Hmm... So Sony are not actually admitting there is a fault. Which is what I said they would do. They are basically saying that if most people are happy with the TV then that is fine with them. They are claiming it is the way they set up their sets to get maximize brightness. They do not plan to recall any of their products. Which means anyone thinking of buying one of these TV's should think long and hard before buying, because they will have problems getting anything done if they are not happy with their set.

As some one who prefers Plasma this obsession with brightness in LCD is just plain odd in my view. For my money, if you are buying a 46" plus TV plasma is the way to go.

Exactually what I have said a few times throughout this thread (even tho someone said my coments were of no help?)

I fail to understand why someone would choose a LCD over a Good Plasma set at these screen sizes then get the hump when the LCD does what it is designed to do. A LCD is backlit so there will allways be evidence of backlight bleed to some degree and IMHO this is far more apparant on larger screens as more light is needed to produce a even image. And as for viewing angles this is also a trait of how LCD's work. These problems were also apparant with old LCD Rear-Projection TV's. NONE OF THESE ISSUES AFFECT A PLASMA!

My advice is if you have these issues and are not happy with it, contact your retailer and either get a refund or exchange it for a Plasma.

 

[Anonymous]

This goes to the heart of the LCD vs Plasma debate. If brightness is your number one priority, then you will have to put up with backlight problems. It is the price you pay for a brighter picture. If more natural colour is what you like then Plasma is the way to go. Most people seem to be obsessed with the brightness aspect to the detriment of all other factors so they go LCD. (They are like rabbits caught in the bright headlights ) ;-0

Goodness knows why Pioneer want to buy into this technology when they had such brilliant plasma tv's.

 

[Anonymous]

D.J.KRIME

I wondered when you would show up. Yes, I saw that someone had not taken to kindly to your advice. But, although it did not help people with existing tv's it was a perfectly fine piece of advice for anyone reading this thread and thinking of buying a large Sony LCD.

But you know how blinded people are by the bright shiny stuff. It reminds me of Black adder when they tried to make shiny gold, and all they came up with was GREEN.

 

[cmf]

Matt_C:I've been a silent watcher of the forum for the last week, prior to which I was ready to buy the 46W4500.

I've almost certainly decided against buying this set as a result of people's experiences, but I think it's only fair all those with the problems try out ALL 3 settings Sony have suggested and then post back with the results.

My gut feeling is probably the same as everyone else - the setting's won't miraculously solve the problem and probably won't even help it! There is however a chance, however slim, it may reduce the problem to a level which does not interfere with regular viewing, in which case, it may warrant the purchase. All the same - the proof is in the pudding as they say.

think all i can do is keep looking and waiting for a decent lcd tv.

can all user experiencing the problem please let us know how they get on with the suggested fix.

 

[cmf]

Matt_C:I've been a silent watcher of the forum for the last week, prior to which I was ready to buy the 46W4500.

I've almost certainly decided against buying this set as a result of people's experiences, but I think it's only fair all those with the problems try out ALL 3 settings Sony have suggested and then post back with the results.

My gut feeling is probably the same as everyone else - the setting's won't miraculously solve the problem and probably won't even help it! There is however a chance, however slim, it may reduce the problem to a level which does not interfere with regular viewing, in which case, it may warrant the purchase. All the same - the proof is in the pudding as they say.

think all i can do is keep looking and waiting for a decent lcd tv.

can all users experiencing the problem please let us know how they get on with the suggested fix.

 

[pete321]

Very Annoyed:

This goes to the heart of the LCD vs Plasma debate. If brightness is your number one priority, then you will have to put up with backlight problems. It is the price you pay for a brighter picture. If more natural colour is what you like then Plasma is the way to go. Most people seem to be obsessed with the brightness aspect to the detriment of all other factors so they go LCD. (They are like rabbits caught in the bright headlights ) ;-0

Goodness knows why Pioneer want to buy into this technology when they had such brilliant plasma tv's.

I think you've got to accept that it's very much down to personal taste. I started off with a 5 star 42" Hitachi plasma, I compared it to the Panasonic plasma of the day and preferred the sharper, more natural picture of the Hitachi if at the expense of a little more screen noise than the smooth Panny. When my Hitachi packed up far too early in it's short life, I went for the 1080p LCD of the day, Sony's KDL-40W2000. I again compared it to the Panny plasma of the day, and again the sharper picture of the Sony LCD prevailed over the Panny which, yes, have better blacks and slightly better colour. Brightness had nothing to do with it, I never had my backlight set above 3 on a scale of 0 to 10.

I've got the best of both now, but had to spend a grand more to get it with a Pioneer plasma! At lower price ranges though, I don't know that I would choose a Panny plasma over a Sony LCD.