Mains leads and biwiring are total nonsense

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Ahem . No, not my opinion, as I have no idea, just a cheap trick to get your attention. I was just wondering if What Hifi has done / would consider doing a feature whereby their golden-eared testers do some blind testing of systems with / without pricey mains leads, filters, biwired vs normal setups. Should be fairly easy to prove or disprove statistically speaking whether this stuff makes any audible difference, no?
 
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Anonymous

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Not a complete troll. I need a 4-way adaptor to solve my wall socket crisis, and I remember the mag reviewed one a couple of issues back, in the region of 70 squid. i.e. about 60 squid more than the 4-way adaptor in my Argos catalogue. Convince me, otherwise the cash is going on a headphone amp :-7
 

nads

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Ok my experience. i was in the market for a 6 way with some form of surge protection, so as you do you have a look about and was taken by this. so i bought it and also 3 mains leads. and fitted them. Well to be honest the one in the picture is my second one. surge protection and filter. about £80 i think.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="tractorboy"]I was just wondering if What Hifi has done / would consider doing a feature whereby their golden-eared testers do some blind testing of systems with / without pricey mains leads, filters, biwired vs normal setups. Should be fairly easy to prove or disprove statistically speaking whether this stuff makes any audible difference, no?[/quote]

Excellent suggestion. I await with baited breath for What Hi Fi to prove the cynics wrong... Didn't they do a similar thing with TV chefs and a blindfolded Jamie Oliver couldn't tell pork from lamb? or maybe it was chicken and turkey...I forget...
 

Gwyndy

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[quote user="tractorboy"]Not a complete troll. I need a 4-way adaptor to solve my wall socket crisis, and I remember the mag reviewed one a couple of issues back, in the region of 70 squid. i.e. about 60 squid more than the 4-way adaptor in my Argos catalogue. Convince me, otherwise the cash is going on a headphone amp :-7[/quote]

Personally as I don't want this to turn into yet another cable war, I would state categorically that I can't convince you- I could tell you how great my system sounds running through a Minisub, Substation, Merlin and Russ Andrews Mains cables. But that is my opinion and in my system, in my house. The circumstances I deal with my be completely different to yours, I could tell you about blind tests that my friend and I carried out in both our systems and our opinions of them, however , the only person who can really decide if it's worth it in your system is you, if you are uncertain may I suggest that you consider this http://www.maplin.co.uk/searchtemplate.asp?criteria=tacima%20filter only £30.
 

professorhat

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Do they do an 8-way of those anywhere? I've seen a Monster one for £150 but it's not rated very highly considering its price! I have very few power sockets in my flat's front room which is a constant annoyance!
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="tractorboy"]Ahem . No, not my opinion, as I have no idea, just a cheap trick to get your attention. I was just wondering if What Hifi has done / would consider doing a feature whereby their golden-eared testers do some blind testing of systems with / without pricey mains leads, filters, biwired vs normal setups. Should be fairly easy to prove or disprove statistically speaking whether this stuff makes any audible difference, no?[/quote]

It'll never happen. Sadly What hi-fi, which is otherwise a very good and well written mag, is crammed full of audiophoolery and loaded with the ads of the suppliers of it. There have been 2 blind tests on mains leads on the web though, both of which show that mains leads don't make a difference. No surprise, really.

Biwiring does make a difference that can be measured and heard providing you use inadequate cabling.
 

Gwyndy

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.[quote user="Keith McAlpine"] It'll never happen. Sadly What hi-fi, which is otherwise a very good and well written mag, is crammed full of audiophoolery and loaded with the ads of the suppliers of it. There have been 2 blind tests on mains leads on the web though, both of which show that mains leads don't make a difference. [/quote].

I have read the results of what I believe to be one of the tests that you mention, I don't agree that it necessarily shows that "mains leads don't make a difference ". In a blind test of unidentifiable mains leads carried out by some 20 odd people, some people preferred the sound of a standard mains cable, some preferred the sound of a branded one and some preferred the sound of a home made mains cable created by the test organiser. There was a second standard kettle lead included to see if anyone could identify the matching cable. Some identified the branded lead as being the same as the reference kettle lead, some the home made one and some actually got the kettle lead.

The results could be equated to those achieved by random guesswork, or it could be used as evidence as you state that "mains leads don't make a difference " or it could be used as evidence that different brands and models of hi-fi equipment react to cabling in different ways. However, I must query, why, if "mains leads don't make a difference" were any differences notiiced at all?, remember they didn't know what any of the cables had cost and therefore had no "audiophoolery" or psychotic self-delusion to fool them, this being the case, all the cables should have sounded the same
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Gwyndy"]I must query, why, if "mains leads don't make a difference" were any differences notiiced at all?[/quote]

Because if you are listening for a difference you will tend to hear one and that is so even if everything is unchanged. It's the well known placebo effect. In fact the mains lead listeners scored no better than chance.

Expensive mains leads are purely a cynical marketing ploy designed to extract cash from the technically illiterate.
 

Anton90125

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[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]Biwiring does make a difference that can be measured and heard providing you use inadequate cabling.[/quote]

I have heard differences with all the cables I have tried. Some were cheep,some unbranded (from Ebay ,Maplins,CPC),some fairly expensive and one that's very expensive. In most cases I was blinded tested.

I have never tested mains leads but I do use a variac (set to unity) to clean the mains from the harmonics generated by mains spikes. I have been blind tested with/without the variac and can hear a difference/improvement. I am convinced that UK Mains is not 100% perfect and varies from house to house/ region to region.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Anton90125"] I have never tested mains leads but I do use a variac (set to unity) to clean the mains from the harmonics generated by mains spikes. I have been blind tested with/without the variac and can hear a difference/improvement. I am convinced that UK Mains is not 100% perfect and varies from house to house/ region to region.[/quote]

I think a surge limiter socket is a good idea, I've no problem with that. But an audible difference in normal conditions, nah, it's the old placebo effect once again.
 

Andrew Everard

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[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]nah, it's the old placebo effect once again.[/quote]

So the placebo effect suggests that if you expect something to happen you think it does, right?

Does that also mean if you convince yourself there can't be any differences you won't hear them even if they are there?

Just a thought...

emotion-14.gif
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Gwyndy"]f you are uncertain may I suggest that you consider this http://www.maplin.co.uk/searchtemplate.asp?criteria=tacima%20filter only £30.[/quote]

I got this last week off ebay for £19 + postage. Didn't make a blind bit of difference to me but gives me piece of mind if there's a power surge.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Andrew Everard"]So the placebo effect suggests that if you expect something to happen you think it does, right?[/quote]

We'll the placebo effect is certainly scientific fact and a well proven phenomenon.

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]Does that also mean if you convince yourself there can't be any differences you won't hear them even if they are there?[/quote]

In such placebo trials there are always "controls" - they are the part of the test designed to prove a negative. I can't recall there being too many credible scientic studies to the contrary of the placebo effect - and I suppose that if someone bought a mains cable for £250 they are much more likely to say that it improved performance than not to justify to themselves the outlay, and I would suggest that those who did by such a cable and indicated no performance gains would be less biased or cloth-eared...I haven't decided which one I am yet...
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="JohnDuncan"]Music reproduction is all about moving electricity around, isn't it? So why would any component through which electricity travels have any effect?[/quote]

Anything in the signal path may have an effect, it's whether that effect is audible.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Andrew Everard"]Does that also mean if you convince yourself there can't be any differences you won't hear them even if they are there?[/quote]

Yes, of course that is possible. I've never bothered listening for differences in mains leads because my mains lead is captive on my amp and it's just too silly anyway but I have listened to phono leads, sorry interconnects, and speaker cables. Speaker wires do sound different but interconnects don't. If I have cloth ears I wouldn't be able to hear the difference in speaker leads.

In any case, either way, a properly conducted double blind test would sort it out.
 
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Anonymous

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TACIMA CS929 Mains Conditioning 6 way block with RFI Filter and Surge Protection

One of these arrived on my doorstep last night. Spent 80mins listening without it. Plugged my CDP & amp into it and could hear the difference in the first track I listened to. The sound was cleaner.

For £28 delivered you can't argue with that....

_Runs away as fast as possible_
 

professorhat

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[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]I've never bothered listening for differences in mains leads because my mains lead is captive on my amp and it's just too silly anyway[/quote]

I love these chats. Especially when the guy who's so adamant it doesn't make a difference admits he's never tried it!
 

John Duncan

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[quote user="professorhat"][quote user="Keith McAlpine"]I've never bothered listening for differences in mains leads because my mains lead is captive on my amp and it's just too silly anyway[/quote]

I love these chats. Especially when the guy who's so adamant it doesn't make a difference admits he's never tried it!
[/quote]

Because it can't. It's just wire. Except speaker wire, because that's different.
 

JoelSim

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At the very least a block that stops a surge of power, or sends a consistent and steady 240v through your kit will make your kit last longer in theory. To me that would win it even if there was no audible improvement.

In fact next time I'm selling on eBay I'll say that my kit has all been surge protected and therefore will be better protected.
 

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