Mains conditioner

[aob9]

I've read about mixed results with these. My amp (Denon PMA 720) is picking up RF noise from an electric fence in the area. It doesn't affect anything else in the house but the amp has an audible tick through the speakers and also within the amps cabinet itself. Some people swear by the TACIMA CS929 but others say it doesn't help with RF annd also affects sound quality negatively.

Any experience??

 

[bigboss]

Get one from Amazon, and return it if you're not happy with its performance.

 

[andyjm]

Its unusual for an electric fence to be mains powered, as they are often in a field away from the mains supply. Can you switch the fence off for a short time just to confirm that the 'ticking' in your system goes away?

If that is the problem, then the fault is with the fence, but if it isn't yours then you options are limited. If it is yours, check it is connected and earthed properly. If that doesn't fix it, send it back - there are limits to the amount of noise that can be injected into the mains.

The Tacima mains conditioner (if the mains turns out to be the problem and you can't get to the fence) may help, but the amp should have a pretty good mains filter fitted internally already.

Amps draw so little power that no mains conditioner is going to make sound quality worse, so you haven't got much to lose by trying it.

 

[davedotco]

If the Tacima is not effective as seems likely, I suggest one of these.

The PS Audio P10.

 

[michael hoy]

If the Tacima is not effective as seems likely, I suggest one of these.

The PS Audio P10.

They are good but not cheap, I have the Power Plant Premier.

One for sale here.

 

[Electro]

It is very likely the noise you are hearing is RF interference from a faulty electric fence , a mains conditioner might help a little but is unlikely to cure the problem .

The noise is being picked up by your cables and the house wiring and even the electronics especially if you have a phono stage .

The only real cure is to contact the owner of the fence an ask him to get the fence checked out for faults , it is illegal to cause strong RF interference and he could be prosecuted if he does not fix the fault .

Some info for you in the link below .*smile*

http://www.hallman.ca/radio.htm

 

[macdiddy]

spending over £4000 on a mains conditioner to use with a £170 amp trying to fix a problem involving an electric fence, may I suggest that the op tries a different amp (if possible) because he (or she) states that they can hear an "audible tick through the speakers and also within the amps cabinet".

I may not be right but to me that suggests a possible fault within the amp itself, so if they can try a different one to check and the problem is still there, then they can do what electro says and speak to the owner of the fence.

*bye*

 

[aob9]

It's not just my Denon amp that suffers from the noise. I also have a Cambridge Audio A5 that actually sounds worse from within the cabinet so I doubt the Denon is faullty. I have a sneaky suspicion the cartridge on my AT95E on my TT is also acting as an ariel. The fence unit is connected to my own mains in a shed in the yard as a favour to a neighbour. A favour which I will shortly be reclaiming if I can't rectify this. As somebody stated a £4000 conditioner for a mid-fi amp is a bit like eating caviar with crisps.

Apart from the audible "ticks" ( admittedly at very low volume) does this type of EMI actually cause damage to components?

 

[Electro]

It's not just my Denon amp that suffers from the noise. I also have a Cambridge Audio A5 that actually sounds worse from within the cabinet so I doubt the Denon is faullty. I have a sneaky suspicion the cartridge on my AT95E on my TT is also acting as an ariel. The fence unit is connected to my own mains in a shed in the yard as a favour to a neighbour. A favour which I will shortly be reclaiming if I can't rectify this. As somebody stated a £4000 conditioner for a mid-fi amp is a bit like eating caviar with crisps.

Apart from the audible "ticks" ( admittedly at very low volume) does this type of EMI actually cause damage to components?

I did not realise that the fence was plugged into your power supply , so it might be the fence unit putting a spike back back into your mains supply in which case there could be damage to your household appliances over the long term.

You could by an isolation transformer and power the fence from that .

Something like this maybe .

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/safety-site-transformers/2604238/

 

[Big Aura]

It's not just my Denon amp that suffers from the noise. I also have a Cambridge Audio A5 that actually sounds worse from within the cabinet so I doubt the Denon is faullty. I have a sneaky suspicion the cartridge on my AT95E on my TT is also acting as an ariel. The fence unit is connected to my own mains in a shed in the yard as a favour to a neighbour. A favour which I will shortly be reclaiming if I can't rectify this. As somebody stated a £4000 conditioner for a mid-fi amp is a bit like eating caviar with crisps.

Apart from the audible "ticks" ( admittedly at very low volume) does this type of EMI actually cause damage to components?

My tacima suffered a bit of water (it was too close to a leaky radiator) and tripped the switches last night. I replaced it with a £9.99 power tower from Maplin with no discernable degredation in a/v quality.

But if you are affected by something, I trust you've turned the fence off to check that's the cause? How close is the fence? Is it on the same ring main as the hifi?

 

[davedotco]

If the Tacima is not effective as seems likely, I suggest one of these.

The PS Audio P10.

They are good but not cheap, I have the Power Plant Premier.

One for sale here.

Most mains conditioners are not worth the time of day but regenerators are a different thing entirely. I had some contact with Paul McGowan when I was in the 'business' so knew rather more about the product than was good for my wallet.

I have a house in a small market town in Andalusia and my mains supply is very poor and somewhat variable, often down around 210-215volts. My nominal 230volt, EL34 based amplifier was hopeless on this supply, despite re-biasing the valves every other day. The only solution that I could think of was a nice clean 230volts from a regenerator, which I was seriously considering before having to move back to the uk.

However, they are as you say, 'not cheap', though how anyone could take my suggestion seriously is beyond me, £4k for a regenerator with a £100 odd Denon amp, this forum has zero sense of humour.....*unknw*

 

[michael hoy]

I would not suggest he bought one either for an amp of that value, I was very lucky in that it was left to me by a dear friend who passed away.

 

[davedotco]

I would not suggest he bought one either for an amp of that value, I was very lucky in that it was left to me by a dear friend who passed away.

Out of interest, does it work well in your situation? Of course if your mains are decent anyway it might not do a lot.

If you have the time, let us know what you found it did within your setup.

 

[Pedro2]

My wife (reading this thread over my shoulder) suggests a pair of bolt croppers and rubber gloves as a much cheaper option

 

[basshound]

[ Of course if your mains are decent anyway it might not do a lot.

Is there a test to check if your mains is noisy or otherwise not up to scratch ? Or is it a case of if you can`t hear any clicks,hums etc. then all is ok ?

 

[michael hoy]

I would not suggest he bought one either for an amp of that value, I was very lucky in that it was left to me by a dear friend who passed away.

Out of interest, does it work well in your situation? Of course if your mains are decent anyway it might not do a lot.

If you have the time, let us know what you found it did within your setup.

I will try, we are having some work done at the moment and my listening room is full of boxes.

 

[davedotco]

Firstly a warning. We are dealing with mains power here, do not get involved unless you know what you are doing.

The only truly effective way I know is to view the waveform on a scope, you will be able to see the shape of the waveform and, if calibrated, check the actual voltage though this is easy to do with a meter.

My interest in the regenerator is to cure a sagging voltage problem in a foreign country, not really about interference so I guess this is different. If your mains is poor, read up on product from IsoTech and Isol-8.

Very much on topic though is that, I have an apartment in a small gated complex, lost all power when the lights in the grounds were switched on at dusk, the automatic switch on tripped the power.

The power supply for the grounds had to be shifted to another supply to cure the problem. The moral being that it is usually best to tackle interference at source, the isolating transformer suggested above being a good place to start.

 

[iceman16]

IME..Tacima(cs929) does'nt do any good soundwise with power and integrated amps.

 

[drummerman]

Its unusual for an electric fence to be mains powered, as they are often in a field away from the mains supply. Can you switch the fence off for a short time just to confirm that the 'ticking' in your system goes away?

The OP may be in high security prison which could make your suggestion rather tricky ...

 

[drummerman]

As to the Tacima, I've been using two in different systems with no detrimental effect.

 

[aob9]

The isolation transformer sounds like a very good, cheap solution and well wrth a try. Thanks fo rthe tips.

 

[Freddy58]

However, they are as you say, 'not cheap', though how anyone could take my suggestion seriously is beyond me, £4k for a regenerator with a £100 odd Denon amp, this forum has zero sense of humour.....*unknw*

Blimey Dave, I didn't know you had it in you! (a sense of humour, that is) *biggrin*

 

[davedotco]

However, they are as you say, 'not cheap', though how anyone could take my suggestion seriously is beyond me, £4k for a regenerator with a £100 odd Denon amp, this forum has zero sense of humour.....*unknw*

Blimey Dave, I didn't know you had it in you! (a sense of humour, that is) *biggrin*

I was, once, fairly famous in the 'business' for a dry, deadpan style of humour, not everyone got it, though it is even more difficult on the interweb.

Many years ago, in the shop, we got bored of the customers bringing in the same old records and decided that we never wanted to hear "Brothers in (bl**dy) arms" ever again so we decided to do something about it.

After some thought we put up a board with all the obvious 'dem' records and the 'fee' that was payable if anyone wanted to play them. Many of our customers paid up with a laugh, some going as far as to bring records in specifically so that they could 'join in the fun' and contribute. Someone suggested that we give the proceeds to the kids charity at Guys (our local hospital) so that's what we did.

Most put a contribution in the box and some paid way, way over the odds for 'a good cause', but believe it or not a few actually got the hump and one complained to one of our principle suppliers who in turn complained to us.

So, reluctantly, we stopped doing it, shame.

 

[andyjm]

The isolation transformer sounds like a very good, cheap solution and well wrth a try. Thanks fo rthe tips.

I generally avoid giving advice on mains wiring as you never know what someone will do. Electric fence earthing gets pages of discussion on the web, the device is after all designed to give electric shocks and safety is a major issue. I would recommend getting advice from a qualified sparky familiar with the device before changing any of the mains connections to the fence. Depending on the design of the transformer and the fence, introducing an isolation transformer could have implications.

 

[TrevC]

A nice simple cheap thing to try. Ferrites on the amplifier input cables. Worked for me. Can't remember the make of the ones I used but they were similar to these. Position them as close to the amp end as possible. http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ferrite-clip-on-hem3012-n89ab