mains cables

[Anonymous]

>>I don't disagree that changing speakers has more of an effect, but changing cables refines that sound. If you haven't tried it then you wouldn't know would you. Therefore your posts are worth nothing. Invalid. Incorrect. Wrong. Unhelpful. Pointless.

Other leads. Leads that have the audio running through, then yes, OK, fair enough.

Changing mains cables doesn't change a thing.

 

[JoelSim]

Red Dwarf:

>>I don't disagree that changing speakers has more of an effect, but changing cables refines that sound. If you haven't tried it then you wouldn't know would you. Therefore your posts are worth nothing. Invalid. Incorrect. Wrong. Unhelpful. Pointless.

Other leads. Leads that have the audio running through, then yes, OK, fair enough.

Changing mains cables doesn't change a thing.

Changing the mains lead on my CDP had a bigger effect than changing my speaker cable. And in fact on changing the mains leads on my amps which made a difference, but not to the same extent. Why are you sticking your fingers in your ears? You have no substantiation to your stubborn, misinformed view.

ÿ

 

[Andrew Everard]

User Red Dwarf now banned for abuse.

 

[strobo]

I wasn't going to join another cable debate because it anonoys the living-be-jeesus out of me that some people are so narrow-minded that they'll dismiss the findings of so many honest decent individuals simply because they'd rather believe science than peoples genuine experiences. But hey-ho, here goes.

I'm of the simple opinion that those who say cables (mains or otherwise) make no difference to the sound should refer to this thread - http://community.whathifi.com/forums/1/280584/ShowThread.aspx - and take the tests therein and post their results for all to see. Maybe then we'll see a pattern emerge...

It's fair to say some people will hear differences caused by cables to different degrees (or maybe not at all) dependent on the state of their hearing. I think the results could prove interesting, though I suspect our doubting-thomas friends would be unwilling to post their genuine results.

And for those who say cables make no difference to picture quality I refer them to http://www.specsavers.com

Simples.

EDIT - I nearly forgot my main reason for posting. Native_Bon, how do you have your speakers mounted? On stands, or something else? A cheap thing to try to perk up the life of the music might be to try sand-loading the stands. From my limited experience and reading of the subject it seems that people with concrete floors suffer a little with lifelessness in their music, that is sorted by adding sand to the stands. Wooden floors don't offer the same gains, though it still might be worth a try.

 

[Alec]

strobo:I wasn't going to join another cable debate because it anonoys the living-be-jeesus out of me that some people are so narrow-minded that they'll dismiss the findings of so many honest decent individuals simply because they'd rather believe science than peoples genuine experiences..

Well damn them to hell and back LOL!!!

So theyre honest decent people. By and large, no one is saying otherwise. Are all their tests methodically...dare i say the dread word...scientifically relevant? I think you know the answer. They are just people conducting their own tests at home. Tests which they may set great store by (or however the phrase goes). There is no reason why others should tho. I have tested certain things myself to the point where i am satisfied (my decision is almost always based partly on what i can afford too; i wont test silly expensivethings as ill never buy them - more could do with remembering that rather than trying to be a 1 man or woman WHFS&V? !; theyre entitled to their hobby, but the evangelising is a bit - A LOT - much!), but im not talking these things up to anyone else, as itd be quite pointless.

Death to cable threads!

 

[strobo]

al7478:
Death to cable threads!

Nah, death (or at least a serious tut-tutting

) to all those who pipe up into a cable debate saying it is "all a load of tosh and those who believe in it are fools", when those who DO believe (those honest and decent folk who have heard it with their own ears - like the three chaps in the current issue of the mag), wish to have a sensible and reasoned debate on the quality of the products and their effects, not on the validity of whether these items make a difference.

The OP has clearly stated that he has heard a difference in his setup - and the difference was to the detriment of his system - as is sometimes the case with "upgrades". What he didn't need to read was Red Dwarf telling him (and the rest of us who have heard or seen differences caused by cables) that we are fools. So now the OP has probably gone off wondering what kind of storm he's kicked up, through no fault of his own. This forum is here for users to help other users, not for some users (like Red Dwarf) to fling random, veiled, insults at people.

It's been said many times before - 99% of the population think we're all mad because they hear no difference between a £30 micro-system from Tesco's and let's say a £3,000 hi-fi from whatever specialist you choose to name. If that 99% of the population all signed up to this forum and belittled every debate about this CD player versus that CD player, or this amp versus that amp, then we'd all get cheesed off and leave pretty damn sharpish. I think all we ask is that cable debates are about the products, not the validity of whether they have any effect or not. The magazine works on the theory that they do, and debates should be allowed to take place with that as a given. Anybody who disputes the benefits of cable upgrades (whatever the cable) should simply refrain from those debates they have a dispute with, just like that 99% of the population keep away from this forum.

Then cable debates might just remain civilised, and they no longer need to be killed

.

The RSPCD - the Royal Society for the Preservation of Cable Debates

 

[shooter]

strobo:al7478:
Death to cable threads!

The RSPCD - the Royal Society for the Preservation of Cable Debates

How much is the members fee, i'll join!!

 

[Anonymous]

I'm in...whats this thread all about again?

 

[hammill]

I read the big question with interest. Although I confess I am a sceptic it did seem to indicate that a mains conditioner and/or a mains cable can make a difference but unfortunately the mains cable and conditioner were changed at the same time. It is therefore impossible to say if the improvement was caused by

a: The conditioner

b: The mains cable

c: Both helping to some degree

d: Some symbiotic imporvement that would only occur if both were present

Changing two variables in an experiment at once is not a good idea.

I would be interested to see a repeat of the test with the mains changes split into four (no changes, conditioner, mains cable, conditioner and mains cable).

 

[Anonymous]

hammill:
I would be interested to see a repeat of the test with the mains changes split into four (no changes, conditioner, mains cable, conditioner and mains cable).

I would agree. Plenty of people posting definite statements about this ("I can hear a difference" vs "it's all nonsense and you're imagining it"). It should be possible to bring an end to these circular discussions through some simple tests.

For example, if someone is *really* interested in finding out if a mains cable makes a difference or not, and certainly if they are interested in influencing/convincing others (ie what people do when they post on this forum), they ought to :

a) test the mains cable against another (for example a "kettle lead") but leave everyhing else exactly the same

b) do a listening test and have a friend swap around the cables at random without you knowing which is which... Try to pick out the difference -- can you consistently tell which one you are listening to? If so, there's a pretty good chance there is a real difference and you may want to share it here...

I have only seen one (1) post along these lines -- which was someone testing an interconnect that had been 'burned in' vs one that hadn't -- and found no difference. If someone repeated the test and *did* find a difference then we have something to talk about. In my opinion the same applies to most other "hot potato" cable debates -- HDMI cables, USB/optical/coax digital, mains cables, mains conditioners...

Calling all mains cable believers... can we have one of those tests?

 

[Anonymous]

I must admit I was very sceptical about this mains cable lark. I decided the way to about it was to subscribe to the mag' and get get the Chord SuperScreen. I swapped it over on the amp and plugged it directly into the wall socket instead of the Tacima. There was a clear difference in sound. It appeared more open and better defined. I had a good music session yesterday playing new, and old familiar stuff. The timing was so much better. I used to think the bass was a little slow and muddy. This has improved quite a lot. I still think I need to change my sub lead and will deffo' get a new mains cable for it also. I may get one for the CD as well.

The lounge is on it's own ring main. I do however live very close to Leeds/Bradford airport so the screening may be an important factor. I'm sure one of you experts will have more knowledge than me on this.

People may say it will have no affect on sound, but then how come CD recorders sounded different if all they were doing was creating a disc with one's and zero's on.

 

[Anonymous]

USER BANNED - ban-dodging.

 

[Anonymous]

NSYGrinner, I live in Horsforth (10mins away from Leeds Bradford) you are welcome to pop round sometime and listen to my Mains conditioned system.

 

[Anonymous]

Trevor - Thanks for the offer. I live in Rawdon. We'll have to sort something out. It would be good to hear someone elses system in a home environment to pick up a few pointers and find out if I'm missing out on something.

 

[Anonymous]

You can E Mail me on trevor7979@aol.com with your number and I can give you a call later.

All the best

 

[Alec]

hammill:

I would be interested to see a repeat of the test with the mains changes split into four (no changes, conditioner, mains cable, conditioner and mains cable).

Now theres someone with a high regard for the scientific method. And im not being sarcy; yuou dont see it often round here. Many who understand the elctrics side, that kind of science; what goes where and whats made of what and does what (hands up, im not 1 of them). But many of them would struggle to design a decent test.

 

[strobo]

The test could be simplified in one way though - it only need be about a change to the sound, not necessarily an improvement. The OP noticed his mains upgrades degraded his sound (definitely no placebo effect there, unless you count high expectations followed by massive disappointment into the equation), so surely a large-scale test could be easily conducted. Could it be done at the What HiFi show? Visitors selected at random, and all asked to pop into a suitably quiet room to see if they could hear any changes when unspecified items in the setup were changed - or in some cases not changed, just to eliminate the views of those who claim to hear a change when none has taken place - the genuine placebo effect.

If around 100 people could be canvassed during the show, then this would surely be enough to lay to rest the arguement...??? Non???

That is unless it turned out a 50/50 split emerged

(we need a headbanging smiley).

 

[Anonymous]

what really baffles me about these people who refuse to believe mains cable can make a difference, is their refusal to try them!
scepticism is perfectly understandable (i am a converted sceptic afterall!) however, with manufacturers like Russ Andrews offering free home trials of his mains products, there is no excuse for the nay-sayers to at least try the products they proclaim to know so much about!

 

[Native_bon]

yea my problem is not a lifeless sound, but rather a 4ward one. I am a music producer... & listen 2 alot of life intrusments played... More of the Hifi i heard that is promoted even in Hifi specialize shops, dont sound Right. I only began 2 get the right sounds from say kick drums when listening 2 very expensive HiFi!! In other to get this HIFI Sound from cheaper components, cheaper components, they lack body & very 4ward in the mids.

Am very sure mains does change the sound of components...by refining the sound but not neccessary better 2 me. If u use mains cables on a sysytem that is not balanced.... u still may not get the sound u desire. There are few cases of very good cheap Hifi components....But it all seems hit & miss 2 me...

 

[aliEnRIK]

ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit:what really baffles me about these people who refuse to believe mains cable can make a difference, is their refusal to try them!

scepticism is perfectly understandable (i am a converted sceptic afterall!) however, with manufacturers like Russ Andrews offering free home trials of his mains products, there is no excuse for the nay-sayers to at least try the products they proclaim to know so much about!

Some of them HAVE tried them but instead of listening to them simply 'measure' the cables. As they cant get any significant measurements out of them then anything different they 'hear' is put down as a placebo effect!

Or sometimes they simply try one for 5 mins and decide that theres no difference

Go figure...........