Mains cables, lets put an end to this nonsense.

[Overdose]

Mr Duncan, do you think mains cables can make a noticeable difference? Bearing in mind that Whf lead us to believe that they do.

I think it's an unfair question on a public forum.

The opinions of the people reviewing the various cables are for the record and in print, I don't see why the question is unfair? A simple enough question should have an equally simple answer and it matters not either way what the answer is.

 

[John Duncan]

Mr Duncan, do you think mains cables can make a noticeable difference? Bearing in mind that Whf lead us to believe that they do.

I think it's an unfair question on a public forum.

The opinions of the people reviewing the various cables are for the record and in print, I don't see why the question is unfair? A simple enough question should have an equally simple answer and it matters not either way what the answer is.

Even if I was expected to prevaricate or dissemble...

 

[spiny norman]

Would it be possible to get a comment from one of the WHF chaps who has put in writing that he has heard differences?

It's always possible. But then so is finding Shergar, Lord Lucan and Nessie having a menage a trois in a small boarding house in the village of Brigadoon.

 

[JamesMellor]

WTF , I mean really , ffs , he is a moderator , his job is to keep the peace on the forums , to enforce the rules of the forum and to "chill out or warn "guys who are getting out of line , he is not a WHF guy , did you not notice you can email him ?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I would genuinly love to attend this gathering...if only to point and laugh loudly at the doubters, but the venues so far from me.

It would be an interesting test if the kit used was upto scratch.

Pity the mag could not organise something.

Take a course in electronics and find out how things like amplifiers work. You will then be equipped with the knowledge that changing a mains cable can make zero difference to the performance of anything. (providing it meets electrical standards). :dance:

Pls stop......

I have an HND in electrical engineering and thats the truth.....yes got it years ago, but I still have the certficti...certfictic....papers to prove it.

I know how an amp works I also know how signals can be affected by the medium thats carrying it (fibre optic, SDH/PDH multplexing training etc...) and I understand the physics. All that said I hear differences on my system when bits like interconnects/cables and hardware is swapped around - I credit that to my speakers though, Mission 782se's which are being controlled really well by my amp the Yamaha dsp ax620 (a reciever). changes are clearas day.

I genuinly can only guess others like yourself prefer their systems as dull as mud with very little upper frequency detail - I cannot fatham how you have come to your opinions on this topic if you listen to music on a decent set, its crazy.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Naaah, we have to sort something out, seriously....c'mon David...Rick lets sort this out man, one day...you could run it pass your management as a publc/open day event to introduce the publc to the wonders of hifi, is that not a cunning enough plan.

 

[Overdose]

Naaah, we have to sort something out, seriously....c'mon David...Rick lets sort this out man, one day...you could run it pass your management as a publc/open day event to introduce the publc to the wonders of hifi, is that not a cunning enough plan.

In a Baldric kind of way, yes.

 

[harrisonp]

At the last sound and vision show in Manchester there was a well known cable manufacturer demonstrating their latest range of expensive mains cables starting with a budget version working up to a top end cable. All were given the same time using the same equipment and CD tune.

Now I have fairly decent hearing have recently passed a comprehensive 30 minute hearing test as part of health and safety at work policy.

I can honestly say I could hear no discernible difference between any of them, and judging by the other faces neither did they? I think the ones who thought there was differences were just nodding their heads to be polite.

So I left thinking better spend my spare hard earned money on a decent amp and speakers.

I noted in most demo rooms standard kettle plugs and sockets were being used.

PJH

 

[tiffany-r]

Most significant thing I noticed was after I installed a mains conditioner,

The background got much quieter with an surprising blacknes that seemed to let the music come thru cleaner. the mains leads did make a ddifference but not as marked.

 

[mykspence]

Doesn't that just show that you have a dirty mains supply and a filter cleans it up?

 

[josito456]

I have used for months now, two main cables for my amplifier and laptop, the first is the ones given with the amplifier/laptop and the second is an Wireworld Stratus 5.2. I noticeable found differences in both systems, especially in the amplifier which is the TAG McLaren 60iRV but also in my premium HD display of the Sony Vaio laptop F11, which is not beeing made anymore due to saving costs. I have just one Wireworld so I am continuously changing it between amplifier/laptop and seeing the difference EVERYDAY, so honestly I do not care people saying that main cables do no change anything, I can see the results myself.

 

[alchemist 1]

Mr Duncan, do you think mains cables can make a noticeable difference? Bearing in mind that Whf lead us to believe that they do.

I think it's an unfair question on a public forum.

I once managed to get a senior salesman in a Well known Hi-fi chain to agree that speaker cables make next to no difference. He wouldn't have said it on a public forum though.

It's a perfectly fair question. I don't work for WHF and am allowed to have different opinions from them (cf: Cyrus). I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them making a difference in certain circumstances but have never observed them doing so, so got rid of the couple that I have bought in my time and use standard kettle leads, preferring instead to spend my money on stuff that makes a tangible - to me - difference to my enjoyment of music (red or white).

Would it be a simular observation on speaker cables ?

 

[cheeseboy]

but also in my premium HD display of the Sony Vaio laptop F11, which is not beeing made anymore due to saving costs.

:clap: well done, you're probably the only person in the world who has ever had an audiophile mains cable make their display better...

Have you tried it in a printer, does it print better?

 

[RobinKidderminster]

but also in my premium HD display of the Sony Vaio laptop F11, which is not beeing made anymore due to saving costs.

:clap: well done, you're probably the only person in the world who has ever had an audiophile mains cable make their display better...

Have you tried it in a printer, does it print better?

You doubter you. Seriously tho .... How do things look when your laptop is working on battery power? Surely with NO mains cable the laptop would be better still? Unless the mains cable actually ADDs to the display capability.

Is it any wonder there are sceptics?

But I digress .... hows it going andy?

 

[John Duncan]

Mr Duncan, do you think mains cables can make a noticeable difference? Bearing in mind that Whf lead us to believe that they do.

I think it's an unfair question on a public forum.

I once managed to get a senior salesman in a Well known Hi-fi chain to agree that speaker cables make next to no difference. He wouldn't have said it on a public forum though.

It's a perfectly fair question. I don't work for WHF and am allowed to have different opinions from them (cf: Cyrus). I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them making a difference in certain circumstances but have never observed them doing so, so got rid of the couple that I have bought in my time and use standard kettle leads, preferring instead to spend my money on stuff that makes a tangible - to me - difference to my enjoyment of music (red or white).

Would it be a simular observation on speaker cables ?

Not quite. I believe that speaker cables and interconnects are different. However, I believe that that difference is very small and I certainly wouldn't a) be using them as tone controls in a system that doesn't sound the way I want it or b) spending any time at all on swapping between cables to try to improve my sound - I'd be looking elsewhere.

In other words, it's not something I care about. To that end, the cables that I use are chosen based primarily on length, flexibility, build quality and value rather than because they do something to the sound - a mixture of Chord, QED, Cambridge and Gotham currently.

 

[alchemist 1]

Mr Duncan, do you think mains cables can make a noticeable difference? Bearing in mind that Whf lead us to believe that they do.

I think it's an unfair question on a public forum.

I once managed to get a senior salesman in a Well known Hi-fi chain to agree that speaker cables make next to no difference. He wouldn't have said it on a public forum though.

It's a perfectly fair question. I don't work for WHF and am allowed to have different opinions from them (cf: Cyrus). I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them making a difference in certain circumstances but have never observed them doing so, so got rid of the couple that I have bought in my time and use standard kettle leads, preferring instead to spend my money on stuff that makes a tangible - to me - difference to my enjoyment of music (red or white).

Would it be a simular observation on speaker cables ?

Not quite. I believe that speaker cables and interconnects are different. However, I believe that that difference is very small and I certainly wouldn't a) be using them as tone controls in a system that doesn't sound the way I want it or b) spending any time at all on swapping between cables to try to improve my sound - I'd be looking elsewhere.

In other words, it's not something I care about. To that end, the cables that I use are chosen based primarily on length, flexibility, build quality and value rather than because they do something to the sound - a mixture of Chord, QED, Cambridge and Gotham currently.

Seems like a reasonable Scottish approach............

 

[ISAC69]

At the last sound and vision show in Manchester there was a well known cable manufacturer demonstrating their latest range of expensive mains cables starting with a budget version working up to a top end cable. All were given the same time using the same equipment and CD tune.

Now I have fairly decent hearing have recently passed a comprehensive 30 minute hearing test as part of health and safety at work policy.

I can honestly say I could hear no discernible difference between any of them, and judging by the other faces neither did they? I think the ones who thought there was differences were just nodding their heads to be polite.

So I left thinking better spend my spare hard earned money on a decent amp and speakers.

I noted in most demo rooms standard kettle plugs and sockets were being used.

PJH

The fact that you could hear no discernible difference between cables doesn't mean that there is none but

that your hearing isn't trained enuogh to catch the actual difference between them . I had to spend about 1500 pounds to achieve the sound

I wanted : clear , transparent neutral and natural . I wish I could do it with cheap cables but the simple fact is that they have a negative effect

on the sound .Further more , not every "expensive" cable is good and a careful audition is a must .

 

[hammill]

At the last sound and vision show in Manchester there was a well known cable manufacturer demonstrating their latest range of expensive mains cables starting with a budget version working up to a top end cable. All were given the same time using the same equipment and CD tune.

Now I have fairly decent hearing have recently passed a comprehensive 30 minute hearing test as part of health and safety at work policy.

I can honestly say I could hear no discernible difference between any of them, and judging by the other faces neither did they? I think the ones who thought there was differences were just nodding their heads to be polite.

So I left thinking better spend my spare hard earned money on a decent amp and speakers.

I noted in most demo rooms standard kettle plugs and sockets were being used.

PJH

The fact that you could hear no discernible difference between cables doesn't mean that there is none but

that your hearing isn't trained enuogh to catch the actual difference between them . I had to spend about 1500 pounds to achieve the sound

I wanted : clear , transparent neutral and natural . I wish I could do it with cheap cables but the simple fact is that they have a negative effect

on the sound .Further more , not every "expensive" cable is good and a careful audition is a must .

Absolutely right. I also have a suit that is so fine that only connoisseurs can see it, the proles thinks it is invisible.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Anyone know an online ear-training course so I can catch a difference in my £1500 cables?Its annoying not having trained ears. I just dont know what I'm missing. I found an online eye-training course to help me find those inky blacks on my laptop with my expensive usb cable.

 

[the record spot]

No need mate, the BS is free. It's the last bastion of the audiomug: "your hearing isn't good enough". Yeah, whatever. It's disinformation of the kind that Isac puts out that gives the hobby a bad name. GIGO indeed.

 

[alchemist 1]

No need mate, the BS is free. It's the last bastion of the audiomug: "your hearing isn't good enough". Yeah, whatever. It's disinformation of the kind that Isac puts out that gives the hobby a bad name. GIGO indeed.

Yeah ! But look how long it took to prove the Higg-Boson theory. ..............:O

 

[steve_1979]

Anyone know an online ear-training course so I can catch a difference in my £1500 cables?Its annoying not having trained ears.

I know that post was written in jest but I would actually like to know for real if anybody knows where I could get some information/training on how to spot tiny differences in things like cables or MP3 files.

People often say on these forums that you can train yourself to hear the tiny differences which would otherwise go unknown - well I'd like to give it a try.

 

[andyjm]

I have noticed a new crop of "yes I can, no you can't" threads over the last few weeks regarding cables.

Rather than descend to playground taunts, in the spirit of Sir Isaac Newton, I suggest we apply the scientific method. My hypothesis is:

"In a domestic setting*, with a HiFi** amplifier, it is impossible to differentiate between different mains cables*** in a properly conducted blind listening test"

* A normal domestic setting, not where an arc welder is plugged into the same circuit.

** An amplifier from a recognised HiFi manufacturer

*** Cables have to be adequately specified to carry sufficient current according to the amplifier manufacturers requirements.

I suggest we perform an experiment to check my hypothesis.

I will PM the more prominent cable supporters to invite them to a properly conducted ABX test, and suggest that they bring their favourate cable along to include in the test. For myself, I will bring the cable that I use for my Krell amplifier that came free with a Dell computer many moons ago. Used because it is nice and flexible and just the right length.

I had originally thought of using my listening room for the test, but my wife is not keen on me inviting (in her words) "a bunch of HifI wierdos from an internet forum" over, so I will try to find neutral territory. There are a few dealers who post on here who seem to have an open mind on these things (and I guess don't sell mains cables), so I will try them. If anyone is interested in hosting, please let me know.

I will mug up on how to conduct a proper ABX test, how many tests are required to be statistically significant, and the correct format of the test. Any pointers welcome. I will post the test protocol so we can all agree, and then post the results of the tests.

Interested?

An update for those still following this. I have drawn a blank on venues so far, but I have discovered that it is very cheap to hire a recording studio for an afternoon, particularly if you dont want to do any recording. I am prepared to cover the cost of hire, but I am rather compromising my original requirement that the test takes place in a domestic setting.A commercial recording studio in Londion is clearly not a domestic setting.

Any thoughts welcome, and ideally any offers of venue.

I have been a bit busy over the last week or so, and I haven't made any progress I am afraid. I will try to get to this next week.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Fair question Steve tho with my old ears there would be no point. But why would you? Would it lead to more enjoyment of music or would it make you more obsessed with looking for a holy grail known only to those few golden eared? Do we care that some could hear a little something extra when we can't? First thing would be a good hearing test? Painful here on the fence.

 

[the record spot]

Anyone know an online ear-training course so I can catch a difference in my £1500 cables?Its annoying not having trained ears.

I know that post was written in jest but I would actually like to know for real if anybody knows where I could get some information/training on how to spot tiny differences in things like cables or MP3 files.

People often say on these forums that you can train yourself to hear the tiny differences which would otherwise go unknown - well I'd like to give it a try.

Probably some mastering engineers who work day in day out with the stuff. Some are pretty picky. That'd be my wager Steve.