MacMini as a Music Server

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MajorFubar

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Pitcairn said:
No one who cares about music would ever use a MAc Mini.
What elitest, pompous, presumptious trash. It's as good as any other source depending on what DAC you tag on the end of it; there's no reason why it wouldn't be. Its only job is to stream the bits uncorrupted and unchanged from a storage device (be it a hard drive or SSD or whatever) to the DAC, just as is the job of any dedicated streamer or even a CD player. Case here of a little knowledge being a very dangerous thing. Some people round here have their heads shoved so far up their own arses they can see first-hand what they ate for yesterday's dinner.

Oh and what's with the sudden influx of new members who only seem to have begun posting to start a fight. Kindly crawl back into whatever hole you came from.
 

Overdose

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MajorFubar said:
Pitcairn said:
No one who cares about music would ever use a MAc Mini.
What elitest, pompous, presumptious trash. It's as good as any other source depending on what DAC you tag on the end of it; there's no reason why it wouldn't be. Its only job is to stream the bits uncorrupted and unchanged from a storage device (be it a hard drive or SSD or whatever) to the DAC, just as is the job of any dedicated streamer or even a CD player. Case here of a little knowledge being a very dangerous thing. Some people round here have their heads shoved so far up their own arses they can see first-hand what they ate for yesterday's dinner.

Oh and what's with the sudden influx of new members who only seem to have begun posting to start a fight. Kindly crawl back into whatever hole you came from.

He he, it hasn't gone unnoticed.
 

Jason36

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MajorFubar said:
Pitcairn said:
No one who cares about music would ever use a MAc Mini.
What elitest, pompous, presumptious trash. It's as good as any other source depending on what DAC you tag on the end of it; there's no reason why it wouldn't be. Its only job is to stream the bits uncorrupted and unchanged from a storage device (be it a hard drive or SSD or whatever) to the DAC, just as is the job of any dedicated streamer or even a CD player. Case here of a little knowledge being a very dangerous thing. Some people round here have their heads shoved so far up their own arses they can see first-hand what they ate for yesterday's dinner.

Oh and what's with the sudden influx of new members who only seem to have begun posting to start a fight. Kindly crawl back into whatever hole you came from.

Exactly MajorFubar,

how someone can say a netbook, PC, MacMini is no good as a music server when all it is doing is delivering 0's and 1's is totally beyond me. Yes you can argue there are moving parts...hard drives, fans etc that can affect the sound, but I would argue that in 99.9% of cases the average listener will not tell a difference (just the same as I am sure most people won't here the difference between standard mains cables and expensive aftermarket affairs).

As I said in my last post...no wonder so many of the knowledgeable stalwarts have decided to leave this site.

MODS: can you please lock this thread for me now??
 
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Anonymous

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Majorfubar, try buying a decent hifi and you'll be able to tell the difference immediately. It stuns me when people listen to low quality cheap equipment assume they know about decent sound quality. So the one talking trash is you, not just trash but complete and utter boll**ks. As I said, I've tried a Mac Mini with several DACS, and the sound is garbage. I've even tried it with a MBL 1511. Now if you're saying that combination outperforms the DAC connected to a 1521, you have no credibility whatsoever....Now perhaps you can enlighten me as to your experience of owning £8000 DACS and transports and comparing them to a Mac Mini. Until then, your utterly ridiculous view that a mediorce £700 PC can perform to the same standard is completely worthless.

User blocked by Mods - Davrid, multiple acounts are against house rules
 

Alec

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Pitcairn said:
Majorfubar, try buying a decent hifi and you'll be able to tell the difference immediately. It stuns me when people listen to low quality cheap equipment assume they know about decent sound quality. So the one talking trash is you, not just trash but complete and utter boll**ks. As I said, I've tried a Mac Mini with several DACS, and the sound is garbage. I've even tried it with a MBL 1511. Now if you're saying that combination outperforms the DAC connected to a 1521, you have no credibility whatsoever....Now perhaps you can enlighten me as to your experience of owning £8000 DACS and transports and comparing them to a Mac Mini. Until then, your utterly ridiculous view that a mediorce £700 PC can perform to the same standard is completely worthless.

Hahahahaha...
 

MajorFubar

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The derogatory misinformation you post isn't worth seriously responding to. Also this site is not here for people to join just to make trouble, which is the only reason you seem to have joined. Luckily we don't have to put up with you anymore as you have been banned. Goodbye. It wasn't a pleasure.

[edited by mods - no need for that]
 

philipjohnwright

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If you take all the emotion and posturing out of this, the question of how a well set up PC (Mac or Windows) compares as a transport against a dedicated streamer is a valid one. And judging by this thread one that many are interested in.

So (yet again) could I ask that WHF runs a feature on it. I'm not naive enough to think it would stop all the bickering, but for those of us with open minds it would be an enlightening comparison. I can't help think that advertising issues have prevented the comparison so far; after all you don't see too many adverts for computers in WHF do you? I'd love to be proved wrong on that one though (and I apologise if I am)

My own experience is that a £1000 PC / DAC (excluding NAS, as the streamer needs this as well) outperforms my CD player, a Meridian 508 that retailed around £2k in its day. In my case it's a Mac Mini / Pure Music / rDac. If I wanted to upgrade do I just go for a better DAC, or turn to a dedicated streamer? It's not an apple vs apple comparison (small a!) as a PC does far more. Mine is dedicated to music though, so focus the test on sound quality.

Alternatively if WHF can't do it does anyone with a streamer fancy a trip down to Plymouth to do the comparison chez moi? Devon cream teas provided!
 

cheeseboy

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gotta laugh aintcha.... to those talking about dedicated music streamers etc, wonder if they are aware that they are basically computers running either windows or linux... :rofl:

either way, hope the op has good luck with his choice and lets us know how her gets on.
 

Overdose

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Pitcairn said:
Majorfubar, you'll be able to tell the difference immediately. It stuns me when people won't listen to quality, but relatively cheap equipment, they don't know about decent sound quality. As I said, I've tried a Mac Mini with several DACS, and the sound is awesome. I've even tried it with a MBL 1511. Now if you're saying that combination outperforms the DAC connected to a 1521, you have hit the nail on the head. Now it's time to think about selling my £8000 DAC and transport after comparing them to a Mac Mini and DAC. Until then, I'll have to make do.

User blocked by Mods - Davrid, multiple acounts are against house rules

I feel your pain. I'd be cheesed off too, if my multi thousand pound system was seen off by a mediocre computer and cheap DAC.

If I were you, I'd be looking to do some damage limitation and sell some of your kit whilst it still has the majority of its value and upgrade to a computer based setup.

I know it's not exactly how it was written, but the sentiment was there, I'm sure of it. ;)
 

relocated

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Just to chime in on the fans etc. messing with sound quality of 0s and1s.

My most favouritist music is on a 64gb usb pendrive which is plugged directly into the Belkin router AND YES YOU GUESSED IT. If I play from the lap or netbook it makes no difference at all.

Thank you for banning those muppets. Why do we have to have people like that in life let alone on here?
 

relocated

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A very comprehensive statement there.

One thing you have certainly got wrong is " hereford costly) amplifies and speakers". Not true at all, pro monitors are nothing like the cost of 'hifi' kit and yet they are happily used in the music production process before it ever gets to cd etc., etc.
 

John Duncan

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relocated said:
A very comprehensive statement there.

One thing you have certainly got wrong is " hereford costly) amplifies and speakers". Not true at all, pro monitors are nothing like the cost of 'hifi' kit and yet they are happily used in the music production process before it ever gets to cd etc., etc.

And one thing that you've got wrong is the assumption that just because inexpensive pro monitors are available, that the monitors used by pros are all inexpensive.
 

chebby

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John Duncan said:
And one thing that you've got wrong is the assumption that just because inexpensive pro monitors are available, that the monitors used by pros are all inexpensive.

Or that those pros all go home and listen to active studio monitors.
 

relocated

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John Duncan said:
relocated said:
A very comprehensive statement there.

One thing you have certainly got wrong is " hereford costly) amplifies and speakers". Not true at all, pro monitors are nothing like the cost of 'hifi' kit and yet they are happily used in the music production process before it ever gets to cd etc., etc.

And one thing that you've got wrong is the assumption that just because inexpensive pro monitors are available, that the monitors used by pros are all inexpensive.

I bow before your pedantry JD.

I did indeed not wholly state that NOT ALL PROS USE INEXPENSIVE MONITORS but then I didn't think I needed to. Still life continues, happily, to be a constant learning journey.

:wave:
 

Overdose

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To be fair, hifi is generally more expensive than pro audio. I have had two audio interfaces, both retailing at less than £400 new, but try to find a hifi equivalent of preamp, DAC and headphone amp at those prices.
 
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Anonymous

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This is actually no different to the age old argument in hi-fi circles about whether cd transports sound the same i.e does "bits in " equal "bits out" in the digital domain,, and if not, why not. It has long been accepted that not all cd /digital transports sound the same, i.e. 'bits in," does not necessarily equal "bits out", indeed, transports have been engineered to sound different, but still people continue to argue that as nothing is apparently added or subtracted, the output of a digital transport must be the same as the data on the disk. Whatever the reason for this, and there could be many e.g. political posturing; lack of transparency in the system to notice the difference, a lack of willingness to actually, a lack of exposure to high quality audio equipment to be able to notice a difference (i.e. not knowing what t listen for) or a genuine lack of being able to hear a difference, which does not mean the difference doesn't exist.

Jitter has long been discussed as one of the reasons why digital transports sound difference, not that there has really been any consensus of what the term really means! Within audio circles, jitter refers to the timing of the digital data stream of ones and zeros - problems arise owing to the need for the said stream to be converted back into music with the same timing as when the content of the disk is first digitised. Failure to do so leads to timing errors in the PS range, otherwise known as jitter. As I said, digital transports can be designed to sound different, and much of this effect is achieved by focusing manufactured jitter on particular spectral frequencies of the S/PDIF signal – easy to pick up though an oscilloscope, and more commonly through the sound of the equipment.

Not all jitter is a consequence of the S/PDIF signal – much is a consequence of the digital processor's word clock i.e. The point at which the DAC converts the digital signal into an analogue output. Timing errors s in the clock produce voltage errors in the DAC's analogue output signal, degrading performance. The reclocking by the input receiver of the incoming clock from the S/PDIF data stream establishes the timing reference for the processor, hence not all signals to the said processor will be 'equal' across different digital transports. The level, and therefore impact upon sound quality of word-clock jitter is a consequence of many variables and interactions, including the level of jitter from the transport, residual RF hash from the transport (very common problem with PC components but some of which can be eliminated by low pass filtering) S/PDIF interface, the degree of filtering, the DAC's intrinsic jitter etc etc - whilst some transport jitter is filtered by the input receiver's PLL, anything above the jitter attenuation cutoff frequency (normally around 25 KHZ) is passed, degrading / changing the sound quality.

In the world of electrical engineering, there is no doubt whatsoever, that not all digital transports sound the same, but any notion that jitter only has a detrimental effect on sound quality haste be treated with some caution – as this may actual result in a less 'true' sound but one which the listener enjoys more. As for the Mac Mini, it is fantastic at what he does but it is not a tool designed for audio use – indeed, many of it's components are low rent even by tropical PC standards – and if you compare the internal and external build quality and sophistication of components between it and expensive audio players, it will be found baby wanting. And yes, there will be sound differences based upon it's interaction with DACS but in many cases you would need revealing and transparent (therefore costly) amplifies and speakers to notice the difference, and also, be attuned to know how the differences are manifested, which few people actually are, besides, requirements differ in all things in life, what is good enough for one person may not be for someone else but that doesn't mean each has to dismiss the other's point of view. All electronics products are a series of compromises, a PC tends to have more than audio-alone products when used as a hi-fi, so, no, a £700 PC can not compete with a £8000 CD transport but it was never intended to. As for my personal usage, I use a USB DAC into my Mac Mini and I feel this is the way forward in the future to address some of the challenges - but certainly not all - I have discussed but USB has a long way to go yet!
 
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Anonymous

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relocated said:
A very comprehensive statement there.

One thing you have certainly got wrong is " hereford costly) amplifies and speakers". Not true at all, pro monitors are nothing like the cost of 'hifi' kit and yet they are happily used in the music production process before it ever gets to cd etc., etc.

Not quite sure what your reply is intimating nor why you have a problem with me stating that transparent equipment is costly, it is. There was no reference to it being "pro" gear, indeed, it is clear, given the context ( ie sufficently revealing to identify the sometimes subtle - though sometimes obvious depending on the nature - changes/differences caused by jitter) the assumption is home hi-fi. Genuinely baffled by your response!
 

landzw

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robjcooper said:
Jason36 said:
This is why this site is hacking me off more and more. |(

You ask a viable question about a product and people see it as an excuse to argue about whose is bigger and better! I wasnt asking for a P****ng match about whether a £500 product is better than or can match a £20,000 system asthetically or sonically.

I wasnt asking about whether a NAS is better than a PC or vice versa.

Yet time and time again these threads are taken off course and hijacked by people who seem to think their system is the best or the be all and end all. Some of us dont want to use a NAS or have a roomfull of boxes for one reason or another.

The macmini s more than likely going to sit as an aesthetically pleasing small system, connected only to a DAC and Headphone Amp. Does that mean that this system will be crap and not worthy to play music or in fact listen to music??

For those of you who answered my original query with regards to the MacMini how to connect it to a DAC and whether it can be purely controlled with an iPad.......thankyou.

For those who just see it as an excuse to argue and bicker......Get a Bloody life!!

No wonder we have lost so many knowleadgable individuals of this site!!

Very well put Jason and I couldn't agree with you more.

+1
 

Overdose

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daveh75 said:

Rather the exception than the rule.

As for the MGL, do you not need to add the optional headphone amp board and also a case? Then assemble when it all arrives? Fully completed components were implied in my statement
 

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