Lossless audio?

[Andrew Everard]

maxflinn:if one goes into a shop and buys a few cds , can the data stored on them be either compressed or uncompressed ?? we,ll say for example to enable getting more songs on an album ?? i thought up until this thread that the data was uncompressed ?

Yes, it is uncompressed, though I have now lost count of how many times I've explained this to you.

Data on a commercially-produced CD is all at 16-bit 44.1kHz, and the maximum running time of a standard Red Book CD is around 74mins. Any disc using any form of compression is not a CD, as it falls outside the standard, and will not play on a conventional CD player. For that reason such discs are not commercially available.

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:No, all music on a shop bought CD is PCM/WAV (ie uncompressed). Otherwise it wouldn't play on CD players.thats what i originally figured , so is it not then correct to say , that "lossless audio" is really a means of storage of data ?? i mean , the audio is the audio , its what you get to hear , lossless describes the format its stored in ?? no ??

 

[idc]

There are basically two means of storing music. Lossless, where all the data is kept, but that data is stored in different ways which means the files can be different sizes or lossy where some of the data is removed.

 

[The_Lhc]

maxflinn:JohnDuncan:No, all music on a shop bought CD is PCM/WAV (ie uncompressed). Otherwise it wouldn't play on CD players.thats what i originally figured , so is it not then correct to say , that "lossless audio" is really a means of storage of data ?? i mean , the audio is the audio , its what you get to hear , lossless describes the format its stored in ?? no ??

I fail to understand the point you're trying to make Max. Lossless audio is a means of storing digital audio without removing (or, say, losing) any of that audio data. And it can be either uncompressed ie the same size as the original track found on an audio cd or it can be compressed so that it is smaller than the original BUT converts back to exactly the same data that came off the cd.

Now, what exactly is it that you don't get about that?

Apologies if that sounds narky but I'm beginning to suspect there's more than one person taking the mick on this thread at the moment.

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:maxflinn:JohnDuncan:No, all music on a shop bought CD is PCM/WAV (ie uncompressed). Otherwise it wouldn't play on CD players.thats what i originally figured , so is it not then correct to say , that "lossless audio" is really a means of storage of data ?? i mean , the audio is the audio , its what you get to hear , lossless describes the format its stored in ?? no ??

I fail to understand the point you're trying to make Max. Lossless audio is a means of storing digital audio without removing (or, say, losing) any of that audio data. And it can be either uncompressed ie the same size as the original track found on an audio cd or it can be compressed so that it is smaller than the original BUT converts back to exactly the same data that came off the cd.

Now, what exactly is it that you don't get about that?

Apologies if that sounds narky but I'm beginning to suspect there's more than one person taking the mick on this thread at the moment. well i was kinda responding to canada who earlier asked ...

Yes what I am really asking is:

1. is lossless audio the best
sound quality, apart from blu-ray music, which there does not seem to be
much about.

2. were can you get lossless audio as like you said
it tends to be the best format for quality.


..

i think he may have thought that "lossless audio" was similar to sacd or something , in that it sounded better than cds etc and should be sought out ..

anyhows i do understand now , cheers ..

btw , not narky at all ..

 

[Anonymous]

And my question after 4 pages of thread still has not been answered.

If I was a HiFi geek and had tens of thousands of pounds worth of kit, what type of audio, ie music would I play?

Would it be sacd, or would most people just get normal music from itunes ect..

Or is CD the best type of music for now? Not to offend the Vinyl lovers out there.

I just wanted to know what is the best format or best way of playing music so it sounds it best, without buying hi-fi kit

 

[Anonymous]

Been looking some more.

Do I just download the FLAC codec, and will that allow me to rip my current library to lossless or do I need something else.

Thanks

 

[shooter]

This is my preference.

Vinyl/CD/ALAC.

I dont have SACD as the music i listen to isn't or very rarely released in this format. If it was then it would fall in between vinyl and CD.

I dont use online streams so cant comment on those.

 

[crusaderlord]

just tested out my own question and downloaded a Linn track 24 bit WMA studio master file. By the time i-tunes had added it into its library the track info had moved to 16 bit and matched my cd lossless track info

so on that basis there is little point downloading anything higher than cd quality if you are using pc software such as itunes

that said cd lossless quality is still great - pity you cant download most general music at that quality - it seems cd purchases are still the best

 

[Gerrardasnails]

crusaderlord:just tested out my own question and downloaded a Linn track 24 bit WMA studio master file. By the time i-tunes had added it into its library the track info had moved to 16 bit and matched my cd lossless track info

so on that basis there is little point downloading anything higher than cd quality if you are using pc software such as itunes

that said cd lossless quality is still great - pity you cant download most general music at that quality - it seems cd purchases are still the best

The idea is to get the lossless file or the higher quality download to your DAC without it being altered. I use the Popcorn Hour A-200 and it does the job perfectly. Someone asked about the use of a DAC; well you have one in every cd player. Your amp sends an analogue sound to your speakers and CDs and lossless files are digital. Therefore you need to convert the digital to analogue (DAC).

 

[Gerrardasnails]

crusaderlord:just tested out my own question and downloaded a Linn track 24 bit WMA studio master file. By the time i-tunes had added it into its library the track info had moved to 16 bit and matched my cd lossless track info

so on that basis there is little point downloading anything higher than cd quality if you are using pc software such as itunes

that said cd lossless quality is still great - pity you cant download most general music at that quality - it seems cd purchases are still the best

The idea is to get the lossless file or the higher quality download to your DAC without it being altered. I use the Popcorn Hour A-200 and it does the job perfectly. Someone asked about the use of a DAC; well you have one in every cd player. Your amp sends an analogue sound to your speakers and CDs and lossless files are digital. Therefore you need to convert the digital to analogue (DAC).

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:No, all music on a shop bought CD is PCM/WAV (ie uncompressed). Otherwise it wouldn't play on CD players.Not quite correct. All music CDs use .cda which is stored as WAV in Windows and AIFF on OS X. All three formats are uncompressed.

 

[mitch65]

Oh My head hurts!

 

[Anonymous]

Mine too.

I just wanted to know how to get the best audio format or buy the best audio.

But it seems as CD's are the way to go.

With cd's almost costing as much as a blu-ray, I would have thought they would have more studio production of blu-ray audio material, and surley you would get better sound than a normal CD.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

canada16:
Mine too.

I just wanted to know how to get the best audio format or buy the best audio.

But it seems as CD's are the way to go.

With cd's almost costing as much as a blu-ray, I would have thought they would have more studio production of blu-ray audio material, and surley you would get better sound than a normal CD.

You have concluded incorrectly. If I were you, I would worry less about whether to use cd or lossless and look at a stereo amp to go with your new speakers.

 

[SteveR750]

canada16:
Mine too.

I just wanted to know how to get the best audio format or buy the best audio.

But it seems as CD's are the way to go.

With cd's almost costing as much as a blu-ray, I would have thought they would have more studio production of blu-ray audio material, and surley you would get better sound than a normal CD.

They would, and SA-CD is potentially better than conventional 12 bit cd audio, but no one apart from a handful of hi fi enthusiasts are interested in buying it. It needs to be a much bigger jump in benefit for it to take off and become mainstream, and 'benefit' isn't just sound quality. It won't be long before streaming is the new CD (which was and currently remains the new vinyl) because it is so convenient, and new. Being dfferent for the sake of it has a surprisingly powerful effect on consumers, after all to most people under the age of 30 music is partly if not mostly fashion.

 

[mitch65]

For me it wasn't a case of dropping CD in favour of streaming, I buy a CD (and will continue to do so), I copy it in FLAC format to my NAS drive which connects to my Uniti and plays it at 16/44.1 same as the CD I copied - simples!

 

[Gerrardasnails]

mitch65:For me it wasn't a case of dropping CD in favour of streaming, I buy a CD (and will continue to do so), I copy it in FLAC format to my NAS drive which connects to my Uniti and plays it at 16/44.1 same as the CD I copied - simples!

Same here. The idea of buying a digital file of 320kbps from iTunes for more money (sometimes) than the CD itself is laughable.

 

[mitch65]

Laughable! Exactly, but plenty of people do it

 

[The_Lhc]

maxflinn:i think he may have thought that "lossless audio" was similar to sacd or something , in that it sounded better than cds etc and should be sought out ..

Well it can sound better than cd, if it's a higher bit rate and sample frequency, ie 24-bit 96 or 192kHz. It's still Lossless and it can still be compressed.

anyhows i do understand now

I'm not entirely convinced of that...

btw , not narky at all ..

No, I was, believe me...

 

[The_Lhc]

canada16:
Been looking some more.

Do I just download the FLAC codec, and will that allow me to rip my current library to lossless or do I need something else.

Thanks

Get something like dbpoweramp rather than the raw codec, it's easier to use.

There's no point converting your existing library though if it's all lossy files, you can't put back what's already been lost.

I now await the reply "so what's the point of lossless then?".

 

[The_Lhc]

crusaderlord:just tested out my own question and downloaded a Linn track 24 bit WMA studio master file. By the time i-tunes had added it into its library the track info had moved to 16 bit and matched my cd lossless track info

so on that basis there is little point downloading anything higher than cd quality if you are using pc software such as itunes

that said cd lossless quality is still great - pity you cant download most general music at that quality - it seems cd purchases are still the best

The obvious answer is don't use rubbish like itunes then, no other media manager I know of down-converts your files without asking, that's rubbish and you can't blame the audio files for that.

 

[John Duncan]

Except Windows Media Player. So that's the two most used players on the planet then?

 

[mitch65]

Monkey Media works for me

 

[shooter]

May be the question should be which players don't down-convert files from hi-res?