Latest Edition of What HiFi Recomending a Sony TV with known issues?

[h4rdy]

In the April issue of What HiFi in the Supertest the SONY KDL-46W4500 is the 'Supertest Winner'.

I have an issue with this as there is some clear fundamental problems with this TV which is even admitted in the text.

If I purchased and experienced the 'clouding issues' like so many people have, I would be unhappy with what, What HiFi had told me.

What does everybody else think about the review?

In the text it says at the end 'it's being replaced soon', I wonder why!!! 

 

[matthewpiano]

1. The review clearly raises the subject of clouding in the opening lines.

2. What Hi-fi have hosted endless discussions about the issues on this forum, AND created links on online reviews.

3. The W4500 series is being discontinued because its the normal time of year for Sony to launch new sets. The W5500 sets are imminent (we're receiving our first two on Monday in 37" size), but have been launched as a natural replacement. No other reason.

4. This has been discussed over and over again. If you don't like Sony TVs or aren't confident about the W4500 don't buy one. Wait for the new model instead. You'll struggle to find a W4500 now anyway unless its an import because Sony UK have been out of stock for a while.

5. I'm not sure that giving away the results of the Supertest from a new edition which isn't even on general release in the shops yet is particularly good forum etiquette.

 

[survivor]

Talking of Sony tv`s matthew I don`t suppose you could rustle me up a silver 37"? I could talk my missus round a lot easier if it matched the rest of the room! Can`t go up to 40" I`m afraid.

 

[Alsone]

I'm sorry but whereas I generally support What Hi Fi I agree with the original poster, What Hi Fi should not recommend any product with known problems.

As the orginal poster said, many people rely exclusively on What Hi Fi for pre-purchase reviews and thus recommending a product that has known issues is totally unacceptable.

The fact that a review mentions those possible issues makes it no more accceptable either especially as I understand Sony refuses to view this as a fault anymore meaning that if you are unlucky enough to get a set with the issue, you have no redress this side of a test law suit on the issue.

No magazine should recommend a product where a manufacturer refuses to offer good service in the event that its seemingly faulty. Again thats selling the consumer down the garden path, and we have to remember here who it is thats buying and supporting the magazine.

Manufacturers need to know that if they supply products with known issues, they'll get bad reviews. They also need to know if they supply bad customer service consumers will be recommended not to purchase from them. Equally, consumers need to know that if they purchase a magazine such as What Hi Fi, they can rely on the reviews to give them a recommendation as to whether or not to buy based on fault occurance and customer service. The magazines have a duty to their consumers as well as the manufacturers.

The fact that the good ones are good, is no excuse for a good review when the occurance of faulty ones is seemingly quite high and customer service in relation to the "fault" allegedly no longer existent.

 

[matthewpiano]

survivor:Talking of Sony tv`s matthew I don`t suppose you could rustle me up a silver 37"? I could talk my missus round a lot easier if it matched the rest of the room! Can`t go up to 40" I`m afraid.

No silver at the moment I'm afraid, although the new 37S5500 is going to have a new 2-tone finish which might appeal (I've not seen it yet and the pictures never give enough of an idea!). The 37V5500 and 37W5500 are both piano black. Its an exciting time of year with the new ranges coming out. Love getting new product in!!

 

[Anonymous]

Good one matthewpiano but back on the original topic i agree WHF should not plug/support a product that appears flawed in the publics hands especially when that manufacturer dismisses the issue or has consistantly in real terms failed to answer but blame the settings THEY set when it left the factory!

 

[h4rdy]

5. I'm not sure that giving away the results of the Supertest from a new edition which isn't even on general release in the shops yet is particularly good forum etiquette.ÿSorry I did not realise it was top secret!ÿI am a subscriber, I am sorry I ruined the suspense for everybody, not sure for how long now though!ÿYou can all read it on Monday. I am glad everybody else agrees with me. I am sick of the pro Sony reviews to be honest!ÿÿAnd why are they recommending a TV that you wont even be able to buy?ÿWeird? Or is it?ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

I think that such "iffy" products should be removed from review until the manufacture widely accepts or does something about the product, in the case this shouild be a "in sony's opinion" a change to the factory settings.

I think a important reviewer like WHF should have stood up more for the consumer on this, the fact WHF publiced that the settings needed changing to make the 4500W series perform should have been made to force Sony to change the factory settings or all reviews pulled.

I think that WHF could have done more in the consumers interest, lets hope its a lesson learned!

 

[Anonymous]

To an extent I believe this too. Hands down they did all they could do providing information on the forums which of course is well respected though same information is not provided in the mag. Is this a value issue?

 

[Clare Newsome]

Octopo - the same information IS provided in the magazine, for both the 40 and 46in versions of the magazine (in review text and in the Buyer's Guide).

But i'll say again - we've yet to see a W4500 set (in either size) that has any of the problems described, once properly set-up, despite now having had numerous review models and having seen even more 'in the wild'.

I'm not doubting some people have had issues with these sets, which is why we continue to flag up those issues - but then we've also yet to see better sets at the same price point. If someone wanted a 46in set it's still the first one we'd recommend.

If people are put off by the reported problems, then there are some great alternatives - the new Philips and Panasonic sets, for example, and the impressive Samsungs.

As for the availability of the Sonys - when we conducted the review, Sony assured us there would still be stocks available into March. Apologies if they misled us on that.

And, OP, they're not being replaced for any other reason other than the standard refresh cycle every manufacturer goes through in the Spring.

Don't think we didn't consider all the issues: we had many, many discussions about the Sony sets before running with the verdict we did - and believe me, personally i'd have LOVED it if a newer set had taken the crown...

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:1. The review clearly raises the subject of clouding in the opening lines.

2. What Hi-fi have hosted endless discussions about the issues on this forum, AND created links on online reviews.

3. The W4500 series is being discontinued because its the normal time of year for Sony to launch new sets. The W5500 sets are imminent (we're receiving our first two on Monday in 37" size), but have been launched as a natural replacement. No other reason.

4. This has been discussed over and over again. If you don't like Sony TVs or aren't confident about the W4500 don't buy one. Wait for the new model instead. You'll struggle to find a W4500 now anyway unless its an import because Sony UK have been out of stock for a while.

5. I'm not sure that giving away the results of the Supertest from a new edition which isn't even on general release in the shops yet is particularly good forum etiquette.

matthewpiano how dare you respond to h4rdy like that. What gives you the right to speak for everyone???

h4rdy has made a valid and very relevant post there and needs to be addressed.

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:
Octopo - the same information IS provided in the magazine, for both the 40 and 46in versions of the magazine (in review text and in the Buyer's Guide).

Ah, sorry. I missed it the first time.ÿ

 

[h4rdy]

Clare-As for the availability of the Sonys - when we conducted the review, Sony assured us there would still be stocks available into March. Apologies if they misled us on that.

ÿEr, it is 'into March' and by the time non-subscribers read the issue it will, in my opinion, be 'well into March', so sticking up for Sony, I don't know why, it is not their fault.

What is the point of wasting page space on a product that will not/is not available anymore? It is just ridiculous!ÿÿ

To be honest I have just about had enough of the pro-Sony stance of the Magazine. It was quite bad about a year and a half ago calmed down a bit but now it is at a point that I cannot stand anymore.

I am currently assessing whether I want to continue being a subscriber, as if I want to read good reviews on Sony products I can subscribe (for free!) to the Sony Magazine.

I am not the only one. My good friend who works in a good HiFi shop says the same, and yes they do sell Sony stuff.

I hope you take note of these comments Clare, but I am very dissatisfied with What HiFi at the moment.ÿ

ÿ

ÿ

 

[Alec]

Martin Gman:

matthewpiano:1. The review clearly raises the subject of clouding in the opening lines. 2. What Hi-fi have hosted endless discussions about the issues on this forum, AND created links on online reviews. 3. The W4500 series is being discontinued because its the normal time of year for Sony to launch new sets. The W5500 sets are imminent (we're receiving our first two on Monday in 37" size), but have been launched as a natural replacement. No other reason. 4. This has been discussed over and over again. If you don't like Sony TVs or aren't confident about the W4500 don't buy one. Wait for the new model instead. You'll struggle to find a W4500 now anyway unless its an import because Sony UK have been out of stock for a while. 5. I'm not sure that giving away the results of the Supertest from a new edition which isn't even on general release in the shops yet is particularly good forum etiquette.

matthewpiano how dare you respond to h4rdy like that. What gives you the right to speak for everyone???

h4rdy has made a valid and very relevant post there and needs to be addressed.

He would appear to have been right tho.

Except for when it comes to revealing test results

 

[Alec]

h4rdy:

Clare-As for the availability of the Sonys - when we conducted the review, Sony assured us there would still be stocks available into March. Apologies if they misled us on that.

Er, it is 'into March' and by the time non-subscribers read the issue it will, in my opinion, be 'well into March', so sticking up for Sony, I don't know why, it is not their fault.

What is the point of wasting page space on a product that will not/is not available anymore? It is just ridiculous!

To be honest I have just about had enough of the pro-Sony stance of the Magazine. It was quite bad about a year and a half ago calmed down a bit but now it is at a point that I cannot stand anymore.

I am currently assessing whether I want to continue being a subscriber, as if I want to read good reviews on Sony products I can subscribe (for free!) to the Sony Magazine.

I am not the only one. My good friend who works in a good HiFi shop says the same, and yes they do sell Sony stuff.

I hope you take note of these comments Clare, but I am very dissatisfied with What HiFi at the moment.

You missed the bit about being misled by Sony then? Thats not what you would expect from the WHF Pro Sony Mafia, is it...?

 

[Anonymous]

I think it's a little unfair to have a go at Clare, If Sony give What Hi-Fi information about availability which then doesn't happen, it's not Clare or What Hi Fi's fault.

What Hi-Fi have been very quick to respond to peoples' concerns, and have helped to highlight issues of this nature, but to suggest that any magazine can dictate to a manufacturer how their products should be calibrated is being rather optimistic.

And before anyone should suggest it I don't work for a Sony dealer (I actually work for a Panasonic dealer!).

In my experience it's always best to wait a while after new products are released as A) the price generally comes down and B) any serious problems can come to light before you invest your hard earned cash.

 

[ElectroMan]

Martin Gman:
matthewpiano how dare you respond to h4rdy like that. What gives you the right to speak for everyone???

h4rdy has made a valid and very relevant post there and needs to be addressed.

Er, didn't you say you were finished with WHF and the forum?

Ive finished with Sony and WHF now. Over and out and god bless you all.

 

[Anonymous]

DONT SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT SONY...OR THERE WILL GET YA ....SHHHHH.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Helpful and constructive as ever, festa...

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Martin Gman:

matthewpiano:1. The review clearly raises the subject of clouding in the opening lines. 2. What Hi-fi have hosted endless discussions about the issues on this forum, AND created links on online reviews. 3. The W4500 series is being discontinued because its the normal time of year for Sony to launch new sets. The W5500 sets are imminent (we're receiving our first two on Monday in 37" size), but have been launched as a natural replacement. No other reason. 4. This has been discussed over and over again. If you don't like Sony TVs or aren't confident about the W4500 don't buy one. Wait for the new model instead. You'll struggle to find a W4500 now anyway unless its an import because Sony UK have been out of stock for a while. 5. I'm not sure that giving away the results of the Supertest from a new edition which isn't even on general release in the shops yet is particularly good forum etiquette.

matthewpiano how dare you respond to h4rdy like that. What gives you the right to speak for everyone???

h4rdy has made a valid and very relevant post there and needs to be addressed.

He's not-he is responding factually-it couldn't be clearer if you read the english.

 

[Alec]

Andrew Everard:Helpful and constructive as ever, festa...

Well, just because you're paranoid...

 

[Clare Newsome]

h4rdy:
Clare-As for the availability of the Sonys - when we conducted the review, Sony assured us there would still be stocks available into March. Apologies if they misled us on that.

Er, it is 'into March' and by the time non-subscribers read the issue it will, in my opinion, be 'well into March', so sticking up for Sony, I don't know why, it is not their fault.

What is the point of wasting page space on a product that will not/is not available anymore? It is just ridiculous!

To be honest I have just about had enough of the pro-Sony stance of the Magazine. It was quite bad about a year and a half ago calmed down a bit but now it is at a point that I cannot stand anymore.

I am currently assessing whether I want to continue being a subscriber, as if I want to read good reviews on Sony products I can subscribe (for free!) to the Sony Magazine.

I am not the only one. My good friend who works in a good HiFi shop says the same, and yes they do sell Sony stuff.

I hope you take note of these comments Clare, but I am very dissatisfied with What HiFi at the moment.

Of course I - and the whole team - take note (and act on) all feedback.

When I said 'into March', it was a stock term meant to express 'continuing throughout' - that's what we were told by Sony in early February when the test was conducted. We questioned this, as had heard conflicting reports from dealers, but were told there were still stocks. They were obviously wrong.

Again, I apologise - that's on our behalf, BTW, as my apology was first time: the last thing we want to do is review products people can't try out and possibly buy.

And I can only again reassure you there is no 'pro-Sony stance' - the company is making a lot of good products, it has to be said, but also some disappointments: such as the four-star home cinema system featured in the new April issue (they still haven't fixed the Sky HD issues with that - the very Sky HD issues we raised here about their receivers and won a fix for).

Then there's the much-hyped Gigajuke, that we gave a three-star rating to. Or the 37in Bravia that doesn't live up to its bigger brothers' quality (or the yet-bigger Sony TV that we feel is a waste of money). Or the consistently mixed -and often poor - ratings for its headphones. Or the nearly-there-but-not-quite portable players - yet to win a Group Test, despite some promising models.

All these are recent reviews that show each Sony product - like every other product that comes into our test rooms - is judged solely on its merits in terms of performance per pound against the competition.

 

[rob_981]

ElectroMan:Martin Gman:

matthewpiano how dare you respond to h4rdy like that. What gives you the right to speak for everyone???

h4rdy has made a valid and very relevant post there and needs to be addressed.

Er, didn't you say you were finished with WHF and the forum?

Ive finished with Sony and WHF now. Over and out and god bless you all.

That's just what I was thinking Electroman!

He's also asking Matthewpiano what gives him the right to speak for everyone. I seem to remember him doing exactly the same thing recently, when he was saying that every Sony lcd has a clouding problem. One rule for him and a different rule for everyone else, it would seem.

 

[bladeslap]

Y-A-W-N...the W4500's again!

ÿWhen I ordered my set in January they were selling like hot cakes and I had to wait three weeks for John Lewis to deliver...it was their last batch.

ÿI did the research and saw the picture produced in various stores. I chose to ignore the doomsayers who warned me off quite vocally here. I said then that I'd report back, this is it.

ÿI'm very, very happy with both the SD and HD pictures via Freesat (HUMAX Foxsat-HDR). Bluray is stunning. There's no discernible clouding or backlight leaks.

ÿThe onboard Freeview tunerÿis perhaps not first rate compared to a friends Panasonic, but that was never a concern for me.

ÿI don't consider myself 'lucky', those with issues, a vocal minority,ÿwere unlucky. I feel for them, but it's time to move on.

ÿÿ

 

[Anonymous]

I think WHF are definitely going to have to comment about Sony's stance towards the clouding issue. It is absolutely disgusting that Sony are viewing clouding as a non issue. I know you guys are in a no win position because you want to be revieiwing the best available televisions and you can't call it until you see it yourselves, however if you are going to continue viewing that particular Sony as the best in the LCD range, then you need to address this as a warning to people at the very least. A warning that is that Sony are not viewing clouding as a fault and thus buyer beware.