Kef R100 with Naim Nait XS

[unsleepable]

I am in the process of upgrading the amplifier and DAC in my main system. I've got a pair of Kef R100 with which I am very happy, but I miss a larger, more open soundstage—currently everything sounds a bit at the back. I use the speakers with an old but very good Denon amplifier, which I deem responsible for the lack of soundstage—even though it actually sounds very good. I also have an Arcam irDac that connects to an Airport Express, to which I stream music from my computer, either from iTunes or Spotify Premium. I don't play material with a resolution higher than 44.1KHz 16-bit, so this setup so far has been sufficient.

So to upgrade the system I've bought a Naim Nait XS, a few months old, that I've been able to purchase at a good price; and a Naim DAC-V1. This I did without auditioning them first, as there are no big audio shops near where I live, where I could have listened to a system similar to mine. I did audition other amplifiers, but none convinced me completely—Exposure 2010s2 and 3010s2, Rega Brio-R, Musical FIdelity M3i, and Nad (can't remember the model of that one). Since the reviews of the Naim Nait XS are so good, the descriptions of the Naim sound are what I look for, and the amplifier belongs to a higher price class than what I have listened to so far, I thought this was pretty much a safe bet.

The amplifier has already arrived, and my initial feeling about it is not what I expected… Sound is great and the soundstage is larger alright. And I wouldn't say it's bright. But somehow listening to music with this amplifier gets a bit tiring—for example, with Sting's "The Last Ship"—, and I have the feeling that higher frequencies are a bit pushed over the rest of the music.

I'm sure it is the amplifier, since I've used the DAC-V1 with my older amplifier and it doesn't have this effect. The amplifier should already be burned-in as it is a few months old, and in other places I've read that Naim is a good match for the Kef R series. I still need to dedicate more time to do A/B listening—with some luck, over the weekend or next week—, but I'm concerned about this initial impression.

Has anyone had the chance of listening to a similar setup, or can give me any recommendations about my system?

 

[drummerman]

Dont know about your speakers but you have a great amplifier there.

Regards

 

[stevebrock]

Dont know about your speakers but you have a great amplifier there.

Regards

That maybe so

However the OP bought without demoing - maybe the Naim isnt working for him.

I liked the Nait XS 2, it was thiucker on bass than the Elciit R but not much in it IMO

However the Nait 5si sounded dull to me.

 

[CnoEvil]

There are few "safe bets" in hifi.....for example, I'm one of those strange people who don't like the sound of Naim amps. I do however like the R100s.

It may be possible to improve things somewhat:

- How reflective is your room?

- What speaker cables are you using?

- What stands are you using?

 

[nima]

Naim gospel no. 1: Naim NAC A5 speaker cabel is supposed to be mandatory with Naim amps. At least 3,5m of it for every speaker.

BTW, how do you find irDAC against DAC-V1?

 

[eazyryder]

Naim may not be for you

Also heard soundstaging is not a naim strong point.

Have you auditioned the Arcam FMJ A19?

What hi fi comments-
Big, room-filling soundOpen, dynamic and cohesiveSubtle and revealing detailDeep and authoritative soundRemarkable composure and controlGood build and connections[/list]

 

[ommadawn]

I suffered the same symptoms when I first used my XS. The sound was deep and full but also a bit shrill and tiresome. I then realised that I had wired my speakers wrong , Left chanel into right speaker and vice versa. It's an easy mistake to make as the output terminals are not in their logical place. Now that they are correctly wired my system sounds much warmer and has lost all the fatigue it was suffering. Its worth a peep around the back just incase.

 

[stevebrock]

Naim gospel no. 1: Naim NAC A5 speaker cabel is supposed to be mandatory with Naim amps. At least 3,5m of it for every speaker.

BTW, how do you find irDAC against DAC-V1?

Thought that was for earlier amps?

 

[jjbomber]

Naim gospel no. 1: Naim NAC A5 speaker cabel is supposed to be mandatory with Naim amps. At least 3,5m of it for every speaker.

BTW, how do you find irDAC against DAC-V1?

Whereas my local hi-fi shop say to avoid it like the plague. Given that they are independent and Naim are biased, l believe Audio-t.

 

[matthewpiano]

Yes, the NAC A5 thing is out-dated now (as in you don't HAVE to use it with modern NAIM amps), though it is great cable in my experience so no reason not to use it....

 

[Philim]

Hi unsleepable

I run exactly the same combo with kef r700s. I have previously had the r500s as well.

I find it a brilliant combo and not tiring at all and hope it is down to other factors. Simple thimgs like if my curtains are not closed on my patio doors can make the sound brighter. Check your speaker wiring is in phase. Naca5 i find a good cable.

You could even try running the dac as pre and xs as power.

 

[p_m_brown]

The R100s are great speakers that I have heard on the whole arcam 2 channel range. They just get better the more power you provide them with!

Try them with an A38 if you can and you will find a wide soundstage, detailed treble and gorgeous warm deep bass!

 

[unsleepable]

I've got the Atacama Nexus 7i speaker stands. I haven't gotten around to fill them up—wanted to sort the amplifier out first.

As for cables, I use Atlas Element Integra interconnect, and QED Performance TOSLINK. The speaker cables are meter-ware professional audio cables—I've also ordered AudioQuest FLX/SLiP 14/4 and they are on their way; but just because I wanted to have the banana plugs already mounted, and the speaker cables are visible and I wanted to have nicer ones. I must confess I am not a big believer in cables as long as a certain quality is met…

My living-room is not very large: 6.5 x 4.5 m. The speakers are located in the middle of one of the larger sides, 2 m apart and 35 cm from the wall. Floor is wood.

Do you think something of this could be improved?

 

[unsleepable]

I still need to take my time to seriously audition the DAC-V1 against the irDac. But as a first impression, I can tell you that the irDac sounds warmer.

It is not a day and night difference, though. For me, the difference in sound between these two DACs is much smaller than that of any two of the amplifiers I have auditioned lately.

I expect I will be able to post more once I can spend more time with them.

 

[unsleepable]

Naim may not be for you

Also heard soundstaging is not a naim strong point.

Have you auditioned the Arcam FMJ A19?

What hi fi comments-
Big, room-filling soundOpen, dynamic and cohesiveSubtle and revealing detailDeep and authoritative soundRemarkable composure and controlGood build and connections[/list]

I'm afraid not… No shop carries Arcam where I live, but I would have really liked to audition it. Maybe I will still have the chance…

 

[unsleepable]

I suffered the same symptoms when I first used my XS. The sound was deep and full but also a bit shrill and tiresome. I then realised that I had wired my speakers wrong , Left chanel into right speaker and vice versa. It's an easy mistake to make as the output terminals are not in their logical place. Now that they are correctly wired my system sounds much warmer and has lost all the fatigue it was suffering. Its worth a peep around the back just incase.

Thanks for the suggestion! I double-checked and the speakers seem to be correctly wired. But it is indeed true that the plugs seem to be out of order.

 

[unsleepable]

The R100s are great speakers that I have heard on the whole arcam 2 channel range. They just get better the more power you provide them with!

Try them with an A38 if you can and you will find a wide soundstage, detailed treble and gorgeous warm deep bass!

Did you also heard them with the A19? If so, how did they fare?

 

[pete321]

Has anyone had the chance of listening to a similar setup, or can give me any recommendations about my system?

I was using a Nait XS with Monitor Audio RX6 speakers & Chord Odyssey speaker cable. Things were too bright under this setup. I replaced the speakers for PMC GB1i's and the cable for Avondale Black Link. I now get a very clear and detailed sound with good bass, but no harshness.

 

[unsleepable]

I was using a Nait XS with Monitor Audio RX6 speakers & Chord Odyssey speaker cable. Things were too bright under this setup. I replaced the speakers for PMC GB1i's and the cable for Avondale Black Link. I now get a very clear and detailed sound with good bass, but no harshness.

Well, in my case I wouldn't say that the overall sound is bright—just initially I found it a bit tiring, and I wanted to see if someone had previous experience with this same match. I'm still not positive that this is the sound I am looking for.

It seems that the Monitor Audio RX6 also have metal tweeters—the tweeters of the RX6 are made of C-CAM gold, and the ones used in the Kef R series are made of aluminium. Maybe that has something to do? But B&W also uses metal tweeters, and I've read often that Naim and B&W go well together.

 

[pete321]

It seems that the Monitor Audio RX6 also have metal tweeters—the tweeters of the RX6 are made of C-CAM gold, and the ones used in the Kef R series are made of aluminium. Maybe that has something to do? But B&W also uses metal tweeters, and I've read often that Naim and B&W go well together.

I don't think metal tweeters are a match with amps like Naim and Cyrus, also I'd steer clear of any form of silver speaker cable.

 

[p_m_brown]

The R100s are great speakers that I have heard on the whole arcam 2 channel range. They just get better the more power you provide them with!

Try them with an A38 if you can and you will find a wide soundstage, detailed treble and gorgeous warm deep bass!

Did you also heard them with the A19? If so, how did they fare?

They sound great on the end of the A19 too. Wide soundstage etc. not as controlled at high volumes as the A38 but sound great at sensible volumes. I actually preferred the sound of the A19 to the A28 I used to have.

 

[unsleepable]

You could even try running the dac as pre and xs as power.

I tried this, by the way, and it actually sounds better.

Apparently, when setting the V1 for fixed line output, it doesn't bypass its preamp stage—it simply fixes the output level.

 

[unsleepable]

They sound great on the end of the A19 too. Wide soundstage etc. not as controlled at high volumes as the A38 but sound great at sensible volumes. I actually preferred the sound of the A19 to the A28 I used to have.

Well, I ended up buying an Arcam A19, and I must say it is exactly what I was looking for: great sound stage, warmer with plenty of detail. On top of that, something unexpected: the bass is tighter, better defined than with the XS—which goes great with the Kef R100 as they tend to be a bit boomy.

I kind of miss something of the XS, after all. It made music enjoyable, in a simpler, uncomplicated kind of way. Not that the A19 does not, but I find the sound more sophisticated, while the XS trades soundstage for dynamism.

 

[Philim]

They sound great on the end of the A19 too. Wide soundstage etc. not as controlled at high volumes as the A38 but sound great at sensible volumes. I actually preferred the sound of the A19 to the A28 I used to have.

Well, I ended up buying an Arcam A19, and I must say it is exactly what I was looking for: great sound stage, warmer with plenty of detail. On top of that, something unexpected: the bass is tighter, better defined than with the XS—which goes great with the Kef R100 as they tend to be a bit boomy.

I kind of miss something of the XS, after all. It made music enjoyable, in a simpler, uncomplicated kind of way. Not that the A19 does not, but I find the sound more sophisticated, while the XS trades soundstage for dynamism.

Put arcam on ebay and buy a supernait 2

 

[unsleepable]

Put arcam on ebay and buy a supernait 2

Might do…

When auditioning the DAC-V1 acting as a preamp, bypassing the preamp stage of the XS, I did appreciate a wider soundstage and tighter bass. At the time I didn't make much of it, and thought that it was simply because in fixed mode, the V1 did not really bypass its own preamp section—and therefore there were two preamps in line, impairing the sound quality. But it didn't make sense that in this mode, it sounded pretty much the same as the irDac…

After changing to the A19, I've read again the WHF review of the XS, and realised that they stated that the amplifier "Loses grip on the deepest bass"—so I guess with this they were referring to one of the qualities I noticed and did not enjoy so much of the XS.

Now I think I may have to revisit the V1 again in the future with a different power amplifier—but for now, I will enjoy the Arcam tandem.