KEF LS50 disappointment :(

[MarkJones83]

[/quote]

IMO that is only half the problem, can explain the speakers soud bright but not the lacking of bass, the amp is old, yes, but has 80wpc RMS, still not capable of driving the KEFs to loud controled sound but still can do the job...

Are they on stands?

What the cables like?

are they with bananas plugs?

are the speakers run in yet?

all this factors together can contribute to a poor sound.

And yes a new amp will help a lot!

[/quote]

Yes on Atacama Nexus 6i stands, full of sand in front tube.

Cables are middle of the road apparently - not the best, not the worst.

No banana plugs - just wired in directly.

Not sure how long it takes to run them in. I've only had them about a month and they were a returned item so not sure how long they were used by previous owner, if it all.

Considering buying a new amp - been watching a Naim Nait 5i on ebay but dont want to spend another chunk of money if it may not resolve.

 

[zakblue]

Hi,

I am a bit of a Kef freak. I own a pair of Kef Concertos from the 70s, 3 pairs of Q300 bookshelves and a pair of r500 floorstanders.I've owned the Q900 floorstanders too but sold them a while back. I also used to own the Ref 104ab.

Whilst I really wanted to love the LS50s, I actually can agree with the 'sitting there with blank faces' comment. Something about the sound of the LS50s just doesn't do it for me, at all. It's like it's missing something. It's especially apparent if you want to hear huge orchestral textures or mid to lower strings and lower brass

I borrowed a pair of these off a mate of mine because I was considering them for my bedroom but in the end I didn't purchase them as they seemed to have 'no love' in the sound. I actually much prefer the sound of the cheaper Q300s and can reccomend these wholheartedly as an alternative. I use these in a 5.1 configuration with 1 acting as a center channel.

Anyway just my opinion and I know there are die hard LS50 fans everywhere but the speakers also show up in the 2nd hand market very often,

Will be interested to hear how you go!

Zak

 

[davedotco]

IMO that is only half the problem, can explain the speakers soud bright but not the lacking of bass, the amp is old, yes, but has 80wpc RMS, still not capable of driving the KEFs to loud controled sound but still can do the job...

Are they on stands?

What the cables like?

are they with bananas plugs?

are the speakers run in yet?

all this factors together can contribute to a poor sound.

And yes a new amp will help a lot!

[/quote]

Yes on Atacama Nexus 6i stands, full of sand in front tube.

Cables are middle of the road apparently - not the best, not the worst.

No banana plugs - just wired in directly.

Not sure how long it takes to run them in. I've only had them about a month and they were a returned item so not sure how long they were used by previous owner, if it all.

Considering buying a new amp - been watching a Naim Nait 5i on ebay but dont want to spend another chunk of money if it may not resolve.

[/quote]

Hi Mark

Have you considered visiting a decent dealer and getting some help?

It strikes me that you are just buying by name, (wretched pun), what reason do you have to think that a Nait will solve your issues?

 

[MarkJones83]

Lots of unfair remarks being made here, maybe i havent made myself clear. My friends Q1's sound better than my LS50's in terms of bass but they still have the clarity and thats what im after. No doubt people will now say that i should sell the LS50's and get some Q1's . I want my £800 speakers to sound the best they can be and clearly they can sound better than Q1's so why dont they?? I didnt mention before but the reason i started looking into hifi was after hearing a friends Klipsch RF-5's. They sounded brilliant and exactly what i was after but sadly i couldnt find any. I heard they were put into reproduction again for a short while but now discontinued again.

 

[MarkJones83]

Had tried doing some online research on what amps would make good pairing with the LS50's. The Nait was one of the ones recommended, on this forum i believe.

 

[Frank Harvey]

When you say you have "played around with the settings", which ones have you played with? Are the speakers set to large? Any EQ (manual on the 3090) being used? Is the bass output set to speaker, sub, or both?

While the LS50 won't dig as deep as larger bookshelf or floorstanders (it's only a 5.25" bass/midrange driver, part of which is a HF unit), their tonal balance certainly doesn't lack bass. The old Q1's will sound quite lean compared to the LS50's, so something somewhere is wrong. Whether this is a speaker problem or a set up issue, more investigation is needed.

The older DSPA1000 had a tendancy to become a little bright at the top end when pushed, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think this could be an issue with the 3090 as well. I can't say for certain, but from memory I found the 3090 a little warmer and smoother, so maybe it is a case of the amplifier overstepping its comfort zone at higher volumes?

 

[MarkJones83]

Hi,

I am a bit of a Kef freak. I own a pair of Kef Concertos from the 70s, 3 pairs of Q300 bookshelves and a pair of r500 floorstanders.I've owned the Q900 floorstanders too but sold them a while back. I also used to own the Ref 104ab.

Whilst I really wanted to love the LS50s, I actually can agree with the 'sitting there with blank faces' comment. Something about the sound of the LS50s just doesn't do it for me, at all. It's like it's missing something. It's especially apparent if you want to hear huge orchestral textures or mid to lower strings and lower brass

I borrowed a pair of these off a mate of mine because I was considering them for my bedroom but in the end I didn't purchase them as they seemed to have 'no love' in the sound. I actually much prefer the sound of the cheaper Q300s and can reccomend these wholheartedly as an alternative. I use these in a 5.1 configuration with 1 acting as a center channel.

Anyway just my opinion and I know there are die hard LS50 fans everywhere but the speakers also show up in the 2nd hand market very often,

Will be interested to hear how you go!

Zak

Thank you for your comment, Zak.

Shows it may not just be me being a 'newbie'

 

[davedotco]

Lots of unfair remarks being made here, maybe i havent made myself clear. My friends Q1's sound better than my LS50's in terms of bass but they still have the clarity and thats what im after. No doubt people will now say that i should sell the LS50's and get some Q1's . I want my £800 speakers to sound the best they can be and clearly they can sound better than Q1's so why dont they?? I didnt mention before but the reason i started looking into hifi was after hearing a friends Klipsch RF-5's. They sounded brilliant and exactly what i was after but sadly i couldnt find any. I heard they were put into reproduction again for a short while but now discontinued again.

Sorry Mark, not trying to be rude but sometimes, when you do not know what you are doing and simply don't understand why things are sounding the way they are, it is best to get the help of a decent dealer.

You need someone who will take you through some of the basics and show you what makes a difference and what kind of equipment will give you the sound that you are looking for. Given some of your comments above I think you would have struggled to buy a more inappropriate pair of speakers than the LS50s, for your requirements anyway.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Hi Mark,

for now i think you need to stay put, don't think in new amp!

To get a solution at this time should be a step by step process, through elimination of factors.

Positive points

- you have the speakers on stands

- the stands are fill with sand

Points to work out

- try the speaker with a new amp at a decent dealer they will get

the best of them for you and you can see if they are for you or not.

After that you can think in what ever you want.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Is that amp a home theatre jobbie? If so, can it and get a decent NAD stereo amp. that'll make a world of difference.

 

[CnoEvil]

Had tried doing some online research on what amps would make good pairing with the LS50's. The Nait was one of the ones recommended, on this forum i believe.

As well as Naim being recommended, so has Creek (50A), Arcam (A19), Rega (Brio R), Musical Fidelity (M3i), Exposure (2010 S2) and Harman Kardon (HK990)....to name but a few.

A little more expensive - Unison Research (Unico Primo), Electrcompaniet (PI-1), Denson (B-110 Plus), Leema (Elements) and Audio Analogue (Puccini Settanta Rev.2).

So please don't buy the Naim without listening to some alternatives (with your speakers)......that will give you some personal perspective (which can't be given by someone else with any degree of certainty).

 

[MarkJones83]

Ok, thanks for all responses.

Will try them out on my friends amp to begin with and then see if i can borrow a decent amp from a local dealer and get it set up by them to see how its sounding.

Funny you should mention the cinema amp, i had wondered if perhaps it was the wrong kind of amp.

 

[CnoEvil]

Ok, thanks for all responses. Will try them out on my friends amp to begin with and then see if i can borrow a decent amp from a local dealer and get it set up by them to see how its sounding. Funny you should mention the cinema amp, i had wondered if perhaps it was the wrong kind of amp.

The LS50s are pretty revealing of weaknesses up stream from them, be it amp, source or bit rate.

 

[BigH]

Lots of unfair remarks being made here, maybe i havent made myself clear. My friends Q1's sound better than my LS50's in terms of bass but they still have the clarity and thats what im after. No doubt people will now say that i should sell the LS50's and get some Q1's . I want my £800 speakers to sound the best they can be and clearly they can sound better than Q1's so why dont they?? I didnt mention before but the reason i started looking into hifi was after hearing a friends Klipsch RF-5's. They sounded brilliant and exactly what i was after but sadly i couldnt find any. I heard they were put into reproduction again for a short while but now discontinued again.

Well the LS50 are not very sensitive and IMO need good amplification, the Q1 are more sensitive and can get away with a less quality amp. I think if you want your LS50 to sound good then you need to spend quite a lot on an amp, the NAim is not the most powerful amp so not sure thats the answer. To be honest I think you should sell them and buy some Q1s or similar.

Klipsch RF-5' are large floorstanders, so if you want something like that you could look at some FS maybe Epos or Tannoys?

 

[MarkJones83]

When you say you have "played around with the settings", which ones have you played with? Are the speakers set to large? Any EQ (manual on the 3090) being used? Is the bass output set to speaker, sub, or both? While the LS50 won't dig as deep as larger bookshelf or floorstanders (it's only a 5.25" bass/midrange driver, part of which is a HF unit), their tonal balance certainly doesn't lack bass. The old Q1's will sound quite lean compared to the LS50's, so something somewhere is wrong. Whether this is a speaker problem or a set up issue, more investigation is needed. The older DSPA1000 had a tendancy to become a little bright at the top end when pushed, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think this could be an issue with the 3090 as well. I can't say for certain, but from memory I found the 3090 a little warmer and smoother, so maybe it is a case of the amplifier overstepping its comfort zone at higher volumes?

Thanks for your response, Dave.

Yes speakers set to 'large' and bass output to 'speakers', havent got a sub. I'm a bit of a technophobe so i had a friend who's much more clued up than me to get out the manual and go into the settings. Will ask local dealer as advised. To be honest i really didnt imagine it would be this complicated. I have a reasonably good amp which ran the RF-5's very nicely, i bought the stands and cables etc and then asked friends who are into hifi to do the setup for me. Dont know how a previous poster could say i didnt follow or ask for advice.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Don't worry about ddc, mate, he tends to get a bit over the top at times.

Seriously, though, that yammie is the last amp to use with quality speakers. I'm not a fan of those kefs, but what they're doing is revealing weaknesses of the amp. Generally, home theatre amps and quality speakers are a bit of a no no. See if you can borrow a proper stereo amp from a dealer at around the 80w mark and give it a go. Think you'll be stunned at the difference.

 

[davedotco]

When you say you have "played around with the settings", which ones have you played with? Are the speakers set to large? Any EQ (manual on the 3090) being used? Is the bass output set to speaker, sub, or both? While the LS50 won't dig as deep as larger bookshelf or floorstanders (it's only a 5.25" bass/midrange driver, part of which is a HF unit), their tonal balance certainly doesn't lack bass. The old Q1's will sound quite lean compared to the LS50's, so something somewhere is wrong. Whether this is a speaker problem or a set up issue, more investigation is needed. The older DSPA1000 had a tendancy to become a little bright at the top end when pushed, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think this could be an issue with the 3090 as well. I can't say for certain, but from memory I found the 3090 a little warmer and smoother, so maybe it is a case of the amplifier overstepping its comfort zone at higher volumes?

Thanks for your response, Dave.

Yes speakers set to 'large' and bass output to 'speakers', havent got a sub. I'm a bit of a technophobe so i had a friend who's much more clued up than me to get out the manual and go into the settings. Will ask local dealer as advised. To be honest i really didnt imagine it would be this complicated. I have a reasonably good amp which ran the RF-5's very nicely, i bought the stands and cables etc and then asked friends who are into hifi to do the setup for me. Dont know how a previous poster could say i didnt follow or ask for advice.

Advice from a competent dealer who can demonstrate the differences and help you to find what works for you, not some mates who are 'into hi-fi' and may or may not know what they are doing.

Not the same thing at all.

 

[matt49]

Thanks for your response, Dave.

Yes speakers set to 'large' and bass output to 'speakers', havent got a sub. I'm a bit of a technophobe so i had a friend who's much more clued up than me to get out the manual and go into the settings. Will ask local dealer as advised. To be honest i really didnt imagine it would be this complicated. I have a reasonably good amp which ran the RF-5's very nicely, i bought the stands and cables etc and then asked friends who are into hifi to do the setup for me. Dont know how a previous poster could say i didnt follow or ask for advice.

My Yamaha AV amp (can't remember the model) has a 'music direct' or 'audio direct' (may have that wrong) option which defeats all the funny AV circuits. I think this does make a difference -- though i doubt that this alone will solve your particular problem.

 

[BigH]

When you say you have "played around with the settings", which ones have you played with? Are the speakers set to large? Any EQ (manual on the 3090) being used? Is the bass output set to speaker, sub, or both? While the LS50 won't dig as deep as larger bookshelf or floorstanders (it's only a 5.25" bass/midrange driver, part of which is a HF unit), their tonal balance certainly doesn't lack bass. The old Q1's will sound quite lean compared to the LS50's, so something somewhere is wrong. Whether this is a speaker problem or a set up issue, more investigation is needed. The older DSPA1000 had a tendancy to become a little bright at the top end when pushed, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think this could be an issue with the 3090 as well. I can't say for certain, but from memory I found the 3090 a little warmer and smoother, so maybe it is a case of the amplifier overstepping its comfort zone at higher volumes?

Dont know how a previous poster could say i didnt follow or ask for advice.

I think he meant before you bought them. It seems you bought them on the back of a review and recommendation which IMHO is not the way to do it. I would either change the amp or speakers but go to a decent dealer (not richers) and try various systems out.

 

[davedotco]

Don't worry about ddc, mate, he tends to get a bit over the top at times.

Seriously, though, that yammie is the last amp to use with quality speakers. I'm not a fan of those kefs, but what they're doing is revealing weaknesses of the amp. Generally, home theatre amps and quality speakers are a bit of a no no. See if you can borrow a proper stereo amp from a dealer at around the 80w mark and give it a go. Think you'll be stunned at the difference.

Not if he wants it to sound like a car stereo or a pair of Klipsch he won't...... :read:

And Al, I appreciate that the modern way is to blame the messenger but when the OP has already spent good money on a pair of inappropriate speakers and is considering blowing a similar amount on an equally inappropriate amplifier I thought I was being pretty restrained....

Edit for lousy spelling.

 

[MarkJones83]

[/quote]

My Yamaha AV amp (can't remember the model) has a 'music direct' or 'audio direct' (may have that wrong) option which defeats all the funny AV circuits. I think this does make a difference -- though i doubt that this alone will solve your particular problem.

[/quote]

May be worth a try

 

[altruistic.lemon]

ddc, maybe the speakers aren't for him, but surely you're not saying that an old and unsuitable AV amp should be used with this calibre of equipment?? If you are, then it calls a lot of your other advice into question, mate.You say ask your dealer, but I'd question that if that's the sort of advice a dealer's going to give.

Besides, both you and I know in Oz certainly HiFi dealers are up there with used car salesmen on the honesty scale .

 

[MarkJones83]

Well, you live and learn as they say I would have liked to have heard the speakers beforehand but came across a single pair of them online from a hifi shop for a little over £600 and realised i didnt have time to hang about! My reasoning was that if i wasnt happy with them for whatever reason then i would be able to sell them for at least the same money i paid for them, and i believe i can still do that. I did seek 'advice' from reviewers though and had read no less than 5 articles before committing, so it wasn't quite as blind as it may appear. The guy with the Q1's (you know, the speakers with all the bass ) recommended them to me too saying they sounded amazing. He believed they sounded better than his but mine don't. That to me means something is wrong.

 

[TrevC]

ddc, maybe the speakers aren't for him, but surely you're not saying that an old and unsuitable AV amp should be used with this calibre of equipment?? If you are, then it calls a lot of your other advice into question, mate.You say ask your dealer, but I'd question that if that's the sort of advice a dealer's going to give.

Besides, both you and I know in Oz certainly HiFi dealers are up there with used car salesmen on the honesty scale .

An AV amp will work fine if it is powerful enough. The KEFs are bass light, as are all small stand mounters, if you look at the Stereophile response curve it is very obvious. I think a sub is essential with these if anything resembling deep bass is required.

That said, it would be a good idea to check the speakers are wired in phase.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

ddc, maybe the speakers aren't for him, but surely you're not saying that an old and unsuitable AV amp should be used with this calibre of equipment?? If you are, then it calls a lot of your other advice into question, mate.You say ask your dealer, but I'd question that if that's the sort of advice a dealer's going to give.

Besides, both you and I know in Oz certainly HiFi dealers are up there with used car salesmen on the honesty scale .

Hi altruistic.lemon

The DSP-A3090 has perfectly good two channel performance

and one which i prefer over some dedicated modern stereo amplifiers.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft