Isuses with HIFI in a conservatory

[hybridauth_Facebook_10203552373284939]

Can anyone advise whether there are specific considerations regarding speaker selection if placing a system in a conservatory? My room is approx 25 SQM and consists of a laminate floor, brick construction about 1/3 up the walls, windows all round and a solid roof. I set-up the following system: CA Streammagic 6 v2, CA Azur 651W Power Amp, & Tannoy Precision 6.2 LE speakers.

Simple, relaxed, acoustic stuff sounds OK. However anything more demanding such as pop, rock or dance music is not pleasant. There is a definite lack of warmth and a harshness to the music.

I’m not sure if any speakers would improve matters or whether I should really look to relocate the system to another room.

 

[drummerman]

Can anyone advise whether there are specific considerations regarding speaker selection if placing a system in a conservatory? My room is approx 25 SQM and consists of a laminate floor, brick construction about 1/3 up the walls, windows all round and a solid roof. I set-up the following system: CA Streammagic 6 v2, CA Azur 651W Power Amp, & Tannoy Precision 6.2 LE speakers.

Simple, relaxed, acoustic stuff sounds OK. However anything more demanding such as pop, rock or dance music is not pleasant. There is a definite lack of warmth and a harshness to the music.

I’m not sure if any speakers would improve matters or whether I should really look to relocate the system to another room.

Rugs, blinds and soft furniture.

 

[andyjm]

David,

The acoustics of a room has more impact on the listening experience than any other factor. Your room looks to be about as bad as it can get. Given that it is a conservatory, there isn't much you are going to be able to do.

You could try using room correction DSP software, but that can only go so far - it won't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If you really want a better experience, I would move the system to another room.

 

[CnoEvil]

In that environment, I'd be looking at speakers from the Spendor Classic range, Audo Note or Harbeth. I'd also be looking for a less forward sounding amp eg. Sugden, Arcam, Musical Fidelity, Croft or Abrahamsen....or possibly Valves.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10203552373284939]

Thanks all. I'm going to try and get a home demo of an Arcam FJ19 amp and see if that improves matters.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10203552373284939]

At the risk of being shot down in flame on a HIFI forum; I half thought about getting some form of EQ (Graphic Equaliser) – do these even exist these days?

 

[Vladimir]

Get speakers that measure flat on and off-axis.

 

[andyjm]

David,

Graphic equalisers still exist, but things have moved on. These days computing power is such that 'room equalisation' (a fancy name for a very sophisticated graphic equaliser) can all be implemented in software using digital signal processing (DSP) techniques. DSP can range from a simple set of filters (like your graphic equaliser) to a sophisticated approach that models the entire acoustic performance of the room, speakers and signal chain and corrects the entire system.

However, DSP can't work miracles. It can take an average room and make it great, but if the room is dreadful, it will struggle to make it average. If you are computer savvy, there are free packages to help in this respect.

To be honest, I have a conservatory, and apart from a Sonos in the corner, I have given up trying to make it sound decent. One tip is that it sounds a damn sight better with all the windows wide open. Not great for the neighbours though.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10203552373284939]

Andy - thanks for the tip! I would say 90% of my listenting is done via spotify connect where there is no possibilty of any DSP or EQ. I'm going to try and set-up some other input so I can experiment. However as you say I may need to give up an move the system to the living room :-(

 

[andyjm]

Andy - thanks for the tip! I would say 90% of my listenting is done via spotify connect where there is no possibilty of any DSP or EQ. I'm going to try and set-up some other input so I can experiment. However as you say I may need to give up an move the system to the living room :-(

David, there are products that will sit in the signal chain between your streamer and amp that will do the clever DSP stuff. Some will accept either a digital or analogue input from your streamer then provide a analogue output to your amp. www.minidsp.com are building some very interesting and innovative products in this area.

To be clear though, I think you would be wasting your time going down this route. You can only do so much to fix a room by fiddling with the signal.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10203552373284939]

Andy - I hooked up an old airplay device which allowed me to stream from my iPad via airplay and use the EQ in Spotify. Pulling the mid range down and emphasing the bass (like a bath tub curve) does help matters. So perhaps so form of EQ is whats needed.

 

[Esra]

In that environment, I'd be looking at speakers from the Spendor Classic range, Audo Note or Harbeth. I'd also be looking for a less forward sounding amp eg. Sugden, Arcam, Musical Fidelity, Croft or Abrahamsen....or possibly Valves.

Would not also Kef R-Series fit into such a "modern" room?

If he doesn´t want/can to change anything in room acoustics there is no other way then changing the speakers I guess.They have the most impact on sound along with the speakers.An other amp would not have the necessary impact to change things into the direction which is needed or as he said massive tone control and eq with it´s shortcomings.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10203552373284939]

Following my findings that the sound could be improved by backing off the mid range a bit I am considering switching to a Marantz PM8005 Amplifier which, as well as appearing to be a cracking amp, has seperate bass, mid and treble controls. Good idea? My current system has zero tone or EQ controls.

 

[DocG]

Get speakers that measure flat on and off-axis.

What Vlad says.

Your conservatory will flood you with reverberations (bass, mid and treble); no DSP, special amp or magic speakers can avoid that. It's physics. You need (physical) damping to solve this (and indeed: an open window is the best room treatment there is!)

But the problem is worsened by the fact that most speakers have a terrible off-axis response (phase shift, uneven frequency spectrum, ...). Which turns the reverberation issue into a real sonic mess. And that part of the problem can be tackled with omnidirectional speakers: just as much reflections as any speaker, but most of the sound is coherent. Examples of omnidirectional speakers are the Davone Mojo or the speakers by Marcus Duevel, like the Duevel Planets. Another option could be Constant Beamwidth Transducer speakers, like the JBL CBT50LA-1. Same philosophy: room interaction? Yes, but with a very even off-axis response. The magic solution? Nope, but the mess will be less messy.

Other than that, I would advise you to position your listening seat as close to the speakers as possible (near-field), to make the direct sound dominate the reverb.

The best option though, would probably be to take the hifi to another room...

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Leeps]

Vertical blinds could possibly help prevent the glass area dominating the overall sound: if you drew them across but had them open, you could still let the light in but help dampen the sound.

Experiment with speaker positioning if the room permits it: I'm not an expert, but from what I understand, having some reflection from side walls isn't as bad as the walls directly behind and opposite the speakers. So its these walls that you'd want to have a look at the most (or change the room's furniture and hifi round 90 degrees).

Last resort: a good headphone amp and set of cans!

 

[CnoEvil]

I was involved with a member whose Kef IQ7s sounded too glassy in his room. The problem was solved with a Sugden A21SE (IIRC)....so the amp "can" have a bigger influence than one might imagine (in some circumstances).

 

[Infiniteloop]

A good pair of Headphones.....

 

[lindsayt]

1 do you have neighbours nearby? Could you open all the windows when you listen to music?

2. Are 3 walls mainly glass and 1 wall brick or stone? Could you put book / CD / vinyl storage against that wall? Is the floor carpeted, or could you put a big thick rug there? Can you put lots of soft furniture in there?

3 How much have you experimented with positioning of: the speakers, your listening position, any fruniture in the room? EG rotate the whole layout by 90 degrees or 180 degrees. EG Try the speakers facing straight down or across the room, then try turning them in towards each other.

4 try vertical array speakers, for their better in room dispersion pattern

5 try horns for their more directional nature

6 try speakers that can be used with an adjustable active crossover. Or speakers that have volume pots on each driver. Adjust relative volumes of each driver to taste.

7 try a graphic equaliser as you suggested. ebay will throw up inexpensive multi band professional examples.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10203552373284939]

Thanks..vertical blinds are probably the best idea yet

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10203552373284939]

Thanks..yea have loaded up the room with cushions and plants! Seems to help...

 

[Andrewjvt]

First try a quick fix like a thick rug and try and hang some blankets (temporary) to see if it helps before trying new speakers and amps. If the sound improves then you can buy blinds or even better thick curtains.

Try before you consider new equipment.

Btw i had a large 25m2 conservatory with glass all down to the floor with no brick. Totally empty with my old nad c160 pre and c270 power amp usi g wharfedale pacific floor standers and i actually enjoyed the sound

 

[bigboss]

Thanks..vertical blinds are probably the best idea yet

Just make sure they're made from cloth and not plastic or wood.

 

[Vladimir]

If you get the right speakers, there wont be any need of acoustic treatment, DSP or EQ. They will sound even better in a conservatory than in a regular brick wall room. They will sound lively, vivid, present and enveloping. Why would you want to suffocate that with curtains and sponges?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10203552373284939]

After extensive listening and swapping about of components and dampening of the room I've reached the conclusion that something's not right with this setup. Amp or speakers? Who knows. For example listen to Tracey Chapman's 'Fast Car' - the intro is beautiful with nice bass and crisp vocals however as soon as you hit the 2 minute point it all comes undone and sounds harsh and seems to lose all warmth, bass and control.

 

[andyjm]

If you get the right speakers, there wont be any need of acoustic treatment, DSP or EQ. They will sound even better in a conservatory than in a regular brick wall room. They will sound lively, vivid, present and enveloping. Why would you want to suffocate that with curtains and sponges?

Vlad,

Do you own a conservatory? Mine is an echo chamber. Glass walls on two sides, pitched glass roof, bare plastered walls on two sides and a tiled floor. With an after dinner party group of 6 or more in there it is impossible to hear the conversations because of the echoes.

Any more than a single speaker playing quietly in the corner is a cacophony of sound.