Question Is it because there is no bad sound anymore?

[Mike Hunt]

2 words You Tube. Everything you need to know is reviewed on there and though I can’t explain it people love sound clips, as if it makes a difference when you listen on your system. How do expect to know what kef ref speakers sound like when your listening too a Sonos play bar, but people seem adamant they can hear the difference, up there with cable imo if not even more so. But a different argument for another time.

Tube tube though, a free resource with the likes of John darko giving great reviews and pod casts.

I wouldn't trust Youtube. There are far too many shills on there.
I came across one shill, who was telling his audience to listen to how great his system sounded with his wonderful new cables. He pressed the play button and indeed, it sounded very good, but I had to explain to him that the best it can possibly sound is as good as the system its being played back through will allow it to sound. He pretended not to understand what I was talking about, so I asked him what mics he was using to record the speakers, as there were no mics visible in the video. He said he was using the single Rode NT1-A that he uses for recording his Youtube videos.
He deleted my comments and banned me from his channel when I asked him how he managed to take the stereo output from his speakers, record it into mono, then convert it back into the perfect stereo I was listening to.
The idiot just overlayed a stereo track in his video editing software, and tried to convince people it was his HiFi system playing it.

 

[insider9]

I'd have to contest that 99% of issues with sound reproduction are down to the room. You've not even mentioned lead yet...

I also can't see how anyone would be satisfied with Sony after that list of previous kit.

You really haven't heard a flagship Sony amp have you?

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I haven't, though in terms of average product range you see what I mean. I don't think this chap is referring to Sony's extreme upper end, but to their range's sound as a whole. In that respect I think what I am saying is likely to be true.

 

[insider9]

You're probably right from an average consumer perspective this is what Sony did successfully for a long time. Proper Sony amps start at 40lbs

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

You see - I have made my kit better by making it heavier...!

 

[cse]

I used to frequent this forum before it got closed for a while. Due to lockdown I’ve got more time time to lurk on here, but it’s not the same. There is very little activity. Is it because hifi is a dying hobby due to one box solutions sounding so good? I’ve noticed good questions going unanswered.

I think the return of the forum has been anticlimactic, a disappointment. It has lost its edgy, passionate debate and charismatic contributers (aka Plastic Penguin, Chebby and Vladimir etc) to name but a few. I enjoyed the argument myself , it’s so dull when everyone is just so passive . It just shows you that you should never go back: “The past is a different place, people do things differently there”. One is also reminded of when Kevin Keegan returned to Newcastle. The same in politics during the lockdown: try watching QuestionTime, absolute dullness Arizona. At least Brexit was an exciting, polemic , devisive time. As for the future of HiFi, there isn’t one. same as the High Street itself. It really doesn’t matter anymore, which system you buy, they all sound at the very least acceptable. Finally, I think the price of upgrading is ridiculous. More than a thousand pounds for individual components just doesn’t make sense anymore, accept for perhaps speakers. But to me all HiFi beyond budget just doesn’t look like value for money. My last purchase was Neat Ioata Aphas which I absolute love, but they retail at £1400 despite their diminutive size. Why? I just can’t fathom how they cost so much. They ought in my opinion be around £400! I paid £1000 but could only afford them as I got £400 trade in for my old ones and paid the balance monthly on interest free credit. Televisions on the other hand, look to be much better value for what you actually get (I’m saying this despite the fact that I have little interest in the medium). End of rant.

 

[Mike Hunt]

Finally, I think the price of upgrading is ridiculous. More than a thousand pounds for individual components just doesn’t make sense anymore, accept for perhaps speakers.

Spot onSpeakers are really the only upgradable part of a half decent modern system. Spending thousands on individual components (and cables! ) is just spending money for the sake of spending money.
Good audio kit is peanuts these days, but if you want something a bit special, then a half-working knowledge of electronics, a copy of Autodesk Eagle and access to Google, will easily enable you to build an amp to rival the sound quality of amps costing many thousands of £££, for a fraction of the price. I might actually have a pop at making one, because #coronalockdown.

 

[stereoman]

I think the return of the forum has been anticlimactic, a disappointment. It has lost its edgy, passionate debate and charismatic contributers (aka Plastic Penguin, Chebby and Vladimir etc) to name but a few. I enjoyed the argument myself , it’s so dull when everyone is just so passive . It just shows you that you should never go back: “The past is a different place, people do things differently there”. One is also reminded of when Kevin Keegan returned to Newcastle. The same in politics during the lockdown: try watching QuestionTime, absolute dullness Arizona. At least Brexit was an exciting, polemic , devisive time. As for the future of HiFi, there isn’t one. same as the High Street itself. It really doesn’t matter anymore, which system you buy, they all sound at the very least acceptable. Finally, I think the price of upgrading is ridiculous. More than a thousand pounds for individual components just doesn’t make sense anymore, accept for perhaps speakers. But to me all HiFi beyond budget just doesn’t look like value for money. My last purchase was Neat Ioata Aphas which I absolute love, but they retail at £1400 despite their diminutive size. Why? I just can’t fathom how they cost so much. They ought in my opinion be around £400! I paid £1000 but could only afford them as I got £400 trade in for my old ones and paid the balance monthly on interest free credit. Televisions on the other hand, look to be much better value for what you actually get (I’m saying this despite the fact that I have little interest in the medium). End of rant.

I find it much much better in all terms.

 

[Dom]

Yeah to all.

 

[insider9]

You can build everything yourself. Schematics are available. Problem is parts will set you back significant amounts a lot of the time.

Where I partly disagree is that I'd rather have average speakers driven by amazing amplification than the other way round. Getting good enough source doesn't cost as much as the other two.

 

[Dom]

Yeah amazing amplifier for the win, and a good dac...

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I remember the even older days, when posts sat in a queue waiting for moderating before they appeared. Wasn't Andrew Everard the staffer responsible? That must be turn of the century?

Personally I fail to see what's good about somewhere to go to argue. If anything, the issue with hifi forums (in contrast to others) is the certainty of opinions held, often without personal experience. In short, a deficit of live and let live.

 

[Mike Hunt]

Personally I fail to see what's good about somewhere to go to argue. If anything, the issue with hifi forums (in contrast to others) is the certainty of opinions held, often without personal experience. In short, a deficit of live and let live.

How boring would it be if everyone agreed with each other, or simply said nothing, for fear of upsetting someone?
And I doubt you've visited many forums if you believe that people on HiFi forums are more opinionated than on other forums. People are very protective of their opinions in all walks of life. Obviously more so when you're questioning someone's financial nous, and especially so if they've just spent a fortune on cables that make zero difference but they have to try to convince themselves and others that it was a sound financial investment. People don't like having their 'investments' questioned.

 

[insider9]

How boring would it be if everyone agreed with each other, or simply said nothing, for fear of upsetting someone?
And I doubt you've visited many forums if you believe that people on HiFi forums are more opinionated than on other forums. People are very protective of their opinions in all walks of life. Obviously more so when you're questioning someone's financial nous, and especially so if they've just spent a fortune on cables that make zero difference but they have to try to convince themselves and others that it was a sound financial investment. People don't like having their 'investments' questioned.

How dare you?! Talking sense won't have you elected PM or get you anywhere in life. Seriously, how very dare you?!

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

How boring would it be if everyone agreed with each other, or simply said nothing, for fear of upsetting someone?
And I doubt you've visited many forums if you believe that people on HiFi forums are more opinionated than on other forums. People are very protective of their opinions in all walks of life. Obviously more so when you're questioning someone's financial nous, and especially so if they've just spent a fortune on cables that make zero difference but they have to try to convince themselves and others that it was a sound financial investment. People don't like having their 'investments' questioned.

Feels like you are trying to misunderstand deliberately - I don't expect people to agree on everything, it would just be nice if they were a little less disrespectful when doing so.

You are, alas, pronouncing on something you know nothing about, namely my experience of other forums. I frequent ones to do with cars (one generalist, one to do with my particular car), meteorites, remote controls - and have participated lightly in ones to do with swimming, the local area, walking etc. Barring one bizarre incident too dull to recount, the have all been rather more respectful of differing opinions and lacking in 'sneer'. Like the bit about cables in your post, if I am honest.

I just cannot see why the determination to be 'right' is so strong in hifi forums.

 

[Mike Hunt]

Feels like you are trying to misunderstand deliberately - I don't expect people to agree on everything, it would just be nice if they were a little less disrespectful when doing so.

You are, alas, pronouncing on something you know nothing about, namely my experience of other forums. I frequent ones to do with cars (one generalist, one to do with my particular car), meteorites, remote controls - and have participated lightly in ones to do with swimming, the local area, walking etc. Barring one bizarre incident too dull to recount, the have all been rather more respectful of differing opinions and lacking in 'sneer'. Like the bit about cables in your post, if I am honest.

I just cannot see why the determination to be 'right' is so strong in hifi forums.

I couldn't figure out why you were being so defensive of cables, then I saw your signature.. oops!
I swear that when I made the post above, I was unaware that you were a fully paid up member of the magic cable club. It wasn't until I signed in on my tablet that I was able to magnify the page and see your signature. The signature text lacks contrast and is too small to read on my laptop, so I've never actually seen it, until now. I guess I should start wearing glasses. But please believe me when I say that the part of my post concerning cables was in no way aimed at you. That's just a very unfortunate coincidence, one which, upon reflection, looks exactly like it was aimed at you. It honestly wasn't

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I didn't take it as referring to my cabling - and I wouldn't refer to myself as a member of any club, magic or otherwise. So no offence taken I assure you - but thanks for saying what you did.

But my experience of hifi forums does stand - the generalist section of the car forum I frequent daily (and have done for the best part of 20 years) has threads dealing with politics and has many disparate views, but disagreements are handled in a much more respectful manner than those about something like cabling tend to be, despite the latter being of massively lower importance.

I am going to post a thread about cabling, just to gauge the water. Might live to regret it, but in for a penny!

 

[Mike Hunt]

I didn't take it as referring to my cabling - and I wouldn't refer to myself as a member of any club, magic or otherwise. So no offence taken I assure you - but thanks for saying what you did.

But my experience of hifi forums does stand - the generalist section of the car forum I frequent daily (and have done for the best part of 20 years) has threads dealing with politics and has many disparate views, but disagreements are handled in a much more respectful manner than those about something like cabling tend to be, despite the latter being of massively lower importance.

I am going to post a thread about cabling, just to gauge the water. Might live to regret it, but in for a penny!

The difference being, your car forum is frequented by people who all own the same car, so they already agree with each other before signing up. HiFi (amongst many other things) is a different matter. People do become very protective over their investments, and people who aren't behind the door when it comes to electronics, do tend to voice their disbelief, when someone posts something regarding electricity, which can't possibly be true.

I'm looking forward to your cable thread.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Nope - that's the other car forum - these people own the widest variety. They have differing requirements, have bought new and used, are more or less bothered by different tyre choices etc etc. Besides, surely no-one would think that everyone who drives the same type of car holds the same political opinions?

(The dull example of bad behaviour I alluded to was at the forum for one model.)

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I am going to post a thread about cabling, just to gauge the water. Might live to regret it, but in for a penny!

NO, please, not another bl**dy cable thread!!

 

[stereoman]

NO, please, not another bl**dy cable thread!!

lol..

 

[Al ears]

NO, please, not another bl**dy cable thread!!

There are more difficult ways to get banned.....

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I've tried to set ground rules of civility!

 

[chebby]

I think the return of the forum has been anticlimactic, a disappointment. It has lost its edgy, passionate debate and charismatic contributers (aka Plastic Penguin, Chebby and Vladimir etc) to name but a few. I enjoyed the argument myself , it’s so dull when everyone is just so passive .

I have seldom been accused of having charisma, so thanks for that! Best wishes to all at this difficult time.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Is that a Russian swing-wing in your avatar? A Sukhoi or somesuch?