Is it all Hype ?

[manicm]

Yet Justin Hayward of The Moody Blues got his sense of taste back through Homeopathy/Alternative healing after years of conventional medicine /operation. Explain that.

Placebo? *diablo*

the conventional stuff didn't help him, but yeah

 

[Vladimir]

Yet Justin Hayward of The Moody Blues got his sense of taste back through Homeopathy/Alternative healing after years of conventional medicine /operation. Explain that.

What part of Owl medicine for insomnia you didn't understand? *pleasantry*

 

[manicm]

Yet Justin Hayward of The Moody Blues got his sense of taste back through Homeopathy/Alternative healing after years of conventional medicine /operation. Explain that.

What part of Owl medicine for insomnia you didn't understand? *pleasantry*

Non of it cos I haven't read it, but seriously years of conventional treatment and an op did not help Hayward, and then someone referred him to an alternative science healer (or something like that) which then helped him. Before that Hayward said he'd try the hottest vindaloo curries and he'd still feel nothing.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I agree...with better kit the changes may be subtle but once heard? Its difficult to go back..almost changes the theme? Before different parts of the music came forward but now? Seems more holistic? Everything more even handed! Sorry im not explaining very well..

I don't have a problem with the idea that there may be very subtle differences, and I've argued before that audiophiles would be mocked far less if they stopped always making these night and day transformation claims (especially when talking about differencs that can't be measured and hence might not even exist). ?

However, there are challenges with the issue of subtle differences:

For example, how do you identify subtle differences, if you don't even rule out clear differences like volume, frequency response and distortion? A lot of HiFi products measure relatively poorly to begin with, so how do you determine whether that "extra air around instruments" or "fullness in the midrange" isn't just harmonic distortion?

 

i listened to yes 'tales of topographic oceans' steve howe doing it solo guitar..on my old system it sounded odd..like the timing wasnt quite right. His singing isnt the best..a little slurry..on new kit? Guitar sounded much better..it rang like a bell..long decay of notes...his voice was even more slurry! But the new pre amp resolved the timing issue..where before i thought a added on track..not esp well recorded..to very fine recording..albeit i cant understand what he says..but guitar, timing..it now works...new pre amp has no truck with bad recordings..so some of music..i cant listen to anymore..previous kit all sounded ok..so new pre amp isnt evenhanded in respect to bad recordings but well recorded stuff is lovely...

 

[Vladimir]

 

[Ajani]

I agree...with better kit the changes may be subtle but once heard? Its difficult to go back..almost changes the theme? Before different parts of the music came forward but now? Seems more holistic? Everything more even handed! Sorry im not explaining very well..

I don't have a problem with the idea that there may be very subtle differences, and I've argued before that audiophiles would be mocked far less if they stopped always making these night and day transformation claims (especially when talking about differencs that can't be measured and hence might not even exist).

However, there are challenges with the issue of subtle differences:

For example, how do you identify subtle differences, if you don't even rule out clear differences like volume, frequency response and distortion? A lot of HiFi products measure relatively poorly to begin with, so how do you determine whether that "extra air around instruments" or "fullness in the midrange" isn't just harmonic distortion?

i can hear the differences that's all i can do i have no way of testing what i have to prove it but to me there are differences between the amps i have owned from the marantz pm6005- pm8005 upgrading to what i have now just better bass control but going from the pm6005 to the pm8005 was a big difference in bass control and even more now with abe 2up in bass control as well as the extra air around instruments maybe this has more to do with the power supply with amps why we hear differences in sound

You don't have to prove that you hear differences between amps. I have no doubt that there are differences and people really do hear them. The issue is really whether most/all of the differences are just the result of manufacturers colouring the sound to create a pleasing, but inaccurate, presentation.

So are you paying $$$$ for X ultra expensive amp because it is better/more accurate than modestly priced Y amp? Or are you just paying for the manufacturer to alter the sound (and hopefully provide better build quality and aesthetic appeal)?

Nothing wrong if you choose to buy a more expensive amp, because you like the way the manufacturer has tailored the sound, it looks good, is well built, has shiny knobs for you to fondle etc..

 

[tonky]

.Could not agree more with those comments. And (as I think you have found out BS) diminishing returns going from 2 Marantz amps to the Abe - but still with a worthwhile improvement at the end. One point I'd like to make - some comment on the "sound signature" of an amp being deliberately "voiced" to suit a particular market maybe. If anyone could provide evidence in the design of a particular make/manufacturer/amp etc being altered in this way I'd be interested to know.

tonky

 

[keeper of the quays]

There are millions of people worldwide who use homeopathy..are they all wrong?

 

[Vladimir]

There are millions of people worldwide who use homeopathy..are they all wrong?

Of course not. Some actually had genetic owl deficiency.

 

[Ajani]

There are millions of people worldwide who use homeopathy..are they all wrong?

There are several religions with mutually exclusive beliefs and millions of followers. So Assuming one of those religious groups is correct, then all the others must be wrong. So yes, millions of people can be wrong.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

.Could not agree more with those comments. And (as I think you have found out BS) diminishing returns going from 2 Marantz amps to the Abe - but still with a worthwhile improvement at the end. One point I'd like to make - some comment on the "sound signature" of an amp being deliberately "voiced" to suit a particular market maybe. If anyone could provide evidence in the design of a particular make/manufacturer/amp etc being altered in this way I'd be interested to know.

tonky

i think marantz has its own house sound but can not prove this but they do tune there amps up whether this is evidence of being altered i am not sure as this as this may come from the onboard dac's that they use on there cd player's and rosken amp's they do not have tone controls the same with cambridge amp's , arcam amp's no tone control's whether this makes any odds i am not sure but i got to thinking its more to do with power supply then anything that gives a better sound

 

[keeper of the quays]

There are millions of people worldwide who use homeopathy..are they all wrong?

There are several religions with mutually exclusive beliefs and millions of followers. So Assuming one of those religious groups is correct, then all the others must be wrong. So yes, millions of people can be wrong.

well? Homeopathy isnt a religion..i believe its holistic..it deals with the cause rather than the symptom..so i think religion analogy bit spurious...i would add though..in case of serious illness..homeopathy not much help..but for minor or chronic ailments its a good alternative to prescribed drugs..and possibly the placebo effect may be present in this too..but if it works? Must be a good thing..in my opinion...

 

[Vladimir]

Flat within -/+0.5dB



There is no Marantz house sound. Even their £220 integrated PM5003 is linear within 1dB.

Just look at that beautiful 10kHz squarewave.

Compare it to the £2,750 Naim Supernait.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Flat within -/+0.5dB

There is no Marantz house sound. Even their £220 integrated PM5003 is linear within 1dB.

Just look at that beautiful 10kHz squarewave.

Compare it to the £2,750 Naim Supernait.

ok not sure what marantz means by tuned then . are you saying naim supernait is ?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

New Premium Products from Marantz are always reason for the audiophile community to celebrate. And the new 14 Series Special Edition thrusts the audio experience to new levels – Special Edition has been lovingly fi ne-tuned and passionately optimized because this for High Resolution fi les: marking the new era in music adoration. Available in black or champagne colour, the new 14 Series Special Edition is the epitome of extreme quality and is, quite simply, a masterpiece. As you would expect from such an elite amp, it includes exceptional quality components such as Toroidal transformer and subsystems throughout its construction. The heavy 5mm thick aluminum top lid and highly rigid feet minimize vibration to guarantee purest audio signal treatment. In addition, it incorporates improved customized components, Marantz own developed HDAMs and the use of a more efficient electrical signal path. These elevate the audio quality to an even more sublime level. The PM-14S1 Special Edition comes with a remote controller, which features a stylish black anodized aluminum top, and which can also control the SA-14S1 Special Edition Player. The final touch of elegance is supplied by the special Marantz-made solid copper speaker terminals, for effortless and powerful signaling to your loudspeakers. This is luxury to the extreme.

this is what i am saying

 

[Vladimir]

are you saying naim supernait is ?

No.

A tuned amp would be like Autodelta taking an Alfa Romeo 147 and making it a GTA.

Naim amps are like Caterham 7, old racing two-seaters designed in 1957 and built today.

 

[Ajani]

There are millions of people worldwide who use homeopathy..are they all wrong?

There are several religions with mutually exclusive beliefs and millions of followers. So Assuming one of those religious groups is correct, then all the others must be wrong. So yes, millions of people can be wrong.

well? Homeopathy isnt a religion..i believe its holistic..it deals with the cause rather than the symptom..so i think religion analogy bit spurious...i would add though..in case of serious illness..homeopathy not much help..but for minor or chronic ailments its a good alternative to prescribed drugs..and possibly the placebo effect may be present in this too..but if it works? Must be a good thing..in my opinion...

Note: I have no opinion on Homeopathy. I can't say I've ever given it much thought. I was just responding to your question. We need to be careful not to assume that because a lot of people believe something, that it means their beliefs are correct or supported by real evidence. Keep in mind, at one point the world was believed to be flat, and if you sailed to the edge you would fall off.

 

[chebby]

New Premium Products from Marantz are always reason for the audiophile community to celebrate. And the new 14 Series Special Edition thrusts the audio experience to new levels – Special Edition has been lovingly fi ne-tuned and passionately optimized because this for High Resolution fi les: marking the new era in music adoration. Available in black or champagne colour, the new 14 Series Special Edition is the epitome of extreme quality and is, quite simply, a masterpiece. As you would expect from such an elite amp, it includes exceptional quality components such as Toroidal transformer and subsystems throughout its construction. The heavy 5mm thick aluminum top lid and highly rigid feet minimize vibration to guarantee purest audio signal treatment. In addition, it incorporates improved customized components, Marantz own developed HDAMs and the use of a more efficient electrical signal path. These elevate the audio quality to an even more sublime level. The PM-14S1 Special Edition comes with a remote controller, which features a stylish black anodized aluminum top, and which can also control the SA-14S1 Special Edition Player. The final touch of elegance is supplied by the special Marantz-made solid copper speaker terminals, for effortless and powerful signaling to your loudspeakers. This is luxury to the extreme.

this is what i am saying

It's NOT what you are saying! It's what Marantz are saying.

That's a direct cut and paste from the Marantz website! At least pop it in quotes, or italicise it, or provide a link. Something to show you didn't write it.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-sound-of-an-amplifier *good*

 

[Vladimir]

this is what i am saying

Yes, they improved something (tuned). Better parts, better tolerances, more power, less distortion etc. Doesn't mean they colored the tonal character. If they did it would show on the frequency response graphs.

 

[chebby]

are you saying naim supernait is ?

No.

A tuned amp would be like Autodelta taking an Alfa Romeo 147 and making it a GTA.

Naim amps are like Caterham 7, old racing two-seaters designed in 1957 and built today.

Not a good example. (Various modern Caterhams can equal and beat their 'supercar' contemporaries around a track.)

You need an example of a car that hasn't been developed since it was first built.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

http://www.marantz.co.uk/uk/products/pages/productdetails.aspx?catid=hifi&subcatid=amplifier&productid=pm14s1specialedition

 

[Blacksabbath25]

New Premium Products from Marantz are always reason for the audiophile community to celebrate. And the new 14 Series Special Edition thrusts the audio experience to new levels – Special Edition has been lovingly fi ne-tuned and passionately optimized because this for High Resolution fi les: marking the new era in music adoration. Available in black or champagne colour, the new 14 Series Special Edition is the epitome of extreme quality and is, quite simply, a masterpiece. As you would expect from such an elite amp, it includes exceptional quality components such as Toroidal transformer and subsystems throughout its construction. The heavy 5mm thick aluminum top lid and highly rigid feet minimize vibration to guarantee purest audio signal treatment. In addition, it incorporates improved customized components, Marantz own developed HDAMs and the use of a more efficient electrical signal path. These elevate the audio quality to an even more sublime level. The PM-14S1 Special Edition comes with a remote controller, which features a stylish black anodized aluminum top, and which can also control the SA-14S1 Special Edition Player. The final touch of elegance is supplied by the special Marantz-made solid copper speaker terminals, for effortless and powerful signaling to your loudspeakers. This is luxury to the extreme.

this is what i am saying

It's NOT what you are saying! It's what Marantz are saying.

That's a direct cut and paste from the Marantz website! At least pop it in quotes, or italicise it, or provide a link. Something to show you didn't write it.

sorry i just paste over but link is now up *biggrin*

 

[Vladimir]

Naim sounds exciting. And it certanly beats a lot of competitors today for the hearts and wallets of many audiophiles. It also has the most loyal customer base.

It's been modernized and keeping pace with technology trends, but under all the fancy pantsy it's still rattling buzzing like a hornet on fire Caterham Super 7. If they improve that part it will end up like a BMW M5, playing racing exhaust noise through the Bose speakers.

 

[Ajani]

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-sound-of-an-amplifier *good*

Good article. It seems to imply that even the differences in amps that don't show up in typical measurements can be explained/measured. Most seem to relate to mild clipping.

So the notion being that tubes deal with mild clipping best, followed by simple Class A and then by more common Class A/B. Interesting.

My preference would be to just use a high powered Class D and avoid clipping alltogether...