Ipod sound vs CD ? Whats better

[admin_exported]

I want to start a music collection , what product will give me the best sound ?

1: Downloading tunes from itunes and listening from Ipod connected to my system ?
2: CD

?

 

[idc]

Well. some say one thing and some say another thing. Some issues to consider;

- itunes downloads are a lower bit rate than you can import a CD with.

- there are plenty of bit rate comparison tests on the internet. Try some and see if you can tell between bit rates.

- there are different ways to connect ipod to system. They will affect sound quality.

- try Spotify. Then you don't have to buy any CDs at all, or an ipod. Just a DAC to connect PC to amp.

 

[chebby]

jasonsony735:I want to start a music collection , what product will give me the best sound ?

1: Downloading tunes from itunes and listening from Ipod connected to my system ?
2: CD

?

2) CD. It will sound better every time than an iPod connected to a hifi in the way you describe.

What can sound better than many CD players is your computer (with iTunes) playing lossless files and connected to your hifi via a DAC.

An iPod cannot have it's internal $3 DAC bypassed except by only a very few devices like the Wadia 170i Transport and - I think - the new £2000 naimuniti equipped with a £95 n-Link cable.

 

[matengawhat]

upload your own music direct from CD using Lossless and then either buy a dac to plug your computer directly into or a wadia transport and dac to use the ipod - difference is marginal

 

[roger06]

CD no question. iPod is fundamentally a portable music player or a repository for loads of music - and at that it's superb (you'll not find a bigger Apple fan than me...) - but a decent CD player with matching amp, cables, speakers etc is always going to blow it away.

Ironically after years of being bored by music, iPod got me back into it but then stimulated the purchase of a Naim CD system and now getting off my backside to change a disc doesn't seem like a compromise...

 

[Anonymous]

Hope I'm not intruding OP. I am trying to do this also. Mentions above that 'there are various ways of connecting'. Can you tell me what these are please. Which is the best ? A DAC in the 'line' improves the result ? Thanks

 

[chebby]

powerful:Hope I'm not intruding OP. I am trying to do this also. Mentions above that 'there are various ways of connecting'. Can you tell me what these are please. Which is the best ? A DAC in the 'line' improves the result ? Thanks

No, 'a DAC in the line' is not possible in the case of an iPod. (With the rare exceptions like the Wadia i170 I mentioned before.)

The iPod (plugged in with cable or dock) will still be using it's own internal DAC and feeding an analogue signal to your amp.

Whereas the computer that hosts your iTunes will sound far better if plugged into an external DAC (with USB or optical), then the DAC plugged into your amplifier like any other source.

 

[Anonymous]

ummm, surely it depends on which cd player? Although in my opinion, CD every time. How could a compressed version of the original sound better?

 

[chebby]

Alex_UK:ummm, surely it depends on which cd player?

From feedback over the last year on this forum (and my own experiences) I would say the consensus is that a good £150 - £250 external DAC replaying lossless files will match or exceed the performance of CD players up to the £500 - £600 level. Once you get to machines like the Rega Apollo - and beyond - the CD player re-asserts itself. Of course there are more expensive and better DACs (and DAC conversions) that will take on very expensive CD players but I have not explored that yet.

Certainly my Naim CD5i with CDs is better than my Beresford TC-7520 DAC with lossless replay, but not by that much.

 

[idc]

powerful:Hope I'm not intruding OP. I am trying to do this also. Mentions above that 'there are various ways of connecting'. Can you tell me what these are please. Which is the best ? A DAC in the 'line' improves the result ? Thanks

Regards to the ways of connecting an ipod directly to an amp:

- LOD or line out dock. A connector goes into the port at the base of the ipod and a cable runs to either a mini jack or phonos, which then plug into the amp. This connection usually bypasses the ipods own amplifier, but not its DAC. The volume is then controlled by the amplifier. The ipod is not charged through the LOD. Examples of LODs are the GQ-24 from Russ Andrews and the iBasso CB03. Both sound excellent.

- Dock. The dock connects through the ipod's port, but it also charges the ipod and does not always bypass the ipods amp, so the connection is different. Many docks then connect by mini jack to minjack or to phono cables. Examples are from Cambridge, Apple and Arcam. See What Hifi reviews as many docks are not great.

- Minjack. A minijack cable from the headphone output at the top of the ipod to minjack or phono. The headphone out is the least effective way of connecting an ipod to anything. There are loads of such cables on Amazon and ebay, most for under a tenner and that cheapness refects the lower standard of connection.

- the Wadia itransport. This bypasses the ipod's amp and DAC. Phon cables are then used to connect it to the amp. It is expensive and reviewed by What Hifi.

The alternative to the above is not to use an ipod at all. A PC with itunes connects to the amp via a DAC. Some amps have their own internal DAC. The PC usually connects to such an amp with a USB cable. Otherwise the DAC sits between PC and amp. The connection by PC to DAC is either USB, optical or digital cable. The DAC then connects to amp by phono cables.

There are other variations, but the above are the most common.

 

[matengawhat]

i think thats the key it won't sound better but will match a cdp - if you blugged both into the same dac so just using the cdp as a transport you would really struggle to tell the difference between lossless and cd - i have my mf v8 and wadia plugged in to the vdac and its very very very close

 

[matengawhat]

idc - great write up - can also vote for the russ andrew gq-24 cable but make sure you buy the one with the ipod connector out not the mini jack

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:
Alex_UK:ummm, surely it depends on which cd player?

From feedback over the last year on this forum (and my own experiences) I would say the consensus is that a good £150 - £250 external DAC replaying lossless files will match or exceed the performance of CD players up to the £500 - £600 level. Once you get to machines like the Rega Apollo - and beyond - the CD player re-asserts itself. Of course there are more expensive and better DACs (and DAC conversions) that will take on very expensive CD players but I have not explored that yet.

Certainly my Naim CD5i with CDs is better than my Beresford TC-7520 DAC with lossless replay, but not by that much.

Fair play, but the question wasn't which will sound better - "an ipod with a Wadia i-transport, connected to a DAC or a CD Player" - so I was assuming the intention was to connect both devices to an amp, via RCA analogue conections.

 

[chebby]

matengawhat:i think thats the key it won't sound better but will match a cdp - if you blugged both into the same dac so just using the cdp as a transport you would really struggle to tell the difference between lossless and cd - i have my mf v8 and wadia plugged in to the vdac and its very very very close

Yes but the point (to me) of external DACs is not just to replace a CD player. It also gives high quality replay of BBC iPlayer, thousands of internet radio stations (many of sufficient quality to be 'hifi'), services like Spotify and Last FM, youtube, improved sound from your Skybox, Freeview box, improved DVD/Blu-Ray sound, PS3 sounds, iTunes etc etc....

A hundred times more flexible and useful than an iPod in a dock or just using the DAC to play the CDs you already have.

 

[matengawhat]

chebby:

matengawhat:i think thats the key it won't sound better but will match a cdp - if you blugged both into the same dac so just using the cdp as a transport you would really struggle to tell the difference between lossless and cd - i have my mf v8 and wadia plugged in to the vdac and its very very very close

Yes but the point (to me) of external DACs is not just to replace a CD player. It also gives access to BBC iPlayer, thousands of internet radio stations (many of sufficient quality to be 'hifi'), services like Spotify and Last FM, youtube, improved sound from your Skybox, Freeview box, improved DVD/Blu-Ray sound, PS3 sounds, iTunes etc etc....

i agree completly - was just keeping it simple

 

[Anonymous]

Have you read this http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/itunes.htm

 

[6th.replicant]

chebby:
Alex_UK:ummm, surely it depends on which cd player?

From feedback over the last year on this forum (and my own experiences) I would say the consensus is that a good £150 - £250 external DAC replaying lossless files will match or exceed the performance of CD players up to the £500 - £600 level. Once you get to machines like the Rega Apollo - and beyond - the CD player re-asserts itself. Of course there are more expensive and better DACs (and DAC conversions) that will take on very expensive CD players but I have not explored that yet.

Certainly my Naim CD5i with CDs is better than my Beresford TC-7520 DAC with lossless replay, but not by that much.

I'm confused! Out of curiosity, how does Apple Lossless "match or exceed" AIFF (CDs' original file format)? Below is an example of the same track's - Elbow's Grounds For Divorce - file size/kbps when ripped as Apple Lossless & AIFF:

Apple Lossless: 1026kbps / 26.9MB

AIFF: 1411kbps / 37MB

Surely the AIFF's 1411kbps will always deliver superior sound, because the Apple Lossless version is (more) compressed &, in turn, a sub "£500 - £600 level" cdp playing AIFFs/CDs is always going to sound better than a £250 dac playing Apple Lossless?

 

[matengawhat]

6th.replicant:chebby:

Alex_UK:ummm, surely it depends on which cd player?

From feedback over the last year on this forum (and my own experiences) I would say the consensus is that a good £150 - £250 external DAC replaying lossless files will match or exceed the performance of CD players up to the £500 - £600 level. Once you get to machines like the Rega Apollo - and beyond - the CD player re-asserts itself. Of course there are more expensive and better DACs (and DAC conversions) that will take on very expensive CD players but I have not explored that yet.

Certainly my Naim CD5i with CDs is better than my Beresford TC-7520 DAC with lossless replay, but not by that much.

I'm confused! Out of curiosity, how does Apple Lossless "match or exceed" AIFF (CDs' original file format)? Below is an example of the same track's - Elbow's Grounds For Divorce - file size/kbps when ripped as Apple Lossless & AIFF: Apple Lossless: 1026kbps / 26.9MB AIFF: 1411kbps / 37MB Surely the AIFF's 1411kbps will always deliver superior sound, because the Apple Lossless version is (more) compressed?

i think he meant spending £250 on a dac would sound better than a £250 cdp - never questioned file size or compression

but your right when you compress you take away so won't be better

 

[6th.replicant]

matengawhat:6th.replicant:chebby:

Alex_UK:ummm, surely it depends on which cd player?

From feedback over the last year on this forum (and my own experiences) I would say the consensus is that a good £150 - £250 external DAC replaying lossless files will match or exceed the performance of CD players up to the £500 - £600 level. Once you get to machines like the Rega Apollo - and beyond - the CD player re-asserts itself. Of course there are more expensive and better DACs (and DAC conversions) that will take on very expensive CD players but I have not explored that yet.

Certainly my Naim CD5i with CDs is better than my Beresford TC-7520 DAC with lossless replay, but not by that much.

I'm confused! Out of curiosity, how does Apple Lossless "match or exceed" AIFF (CDs' original file format)? Below is an example of the same track's - Elbow's Grounds For Divorce - file size/kbps when ripped as Apple Lossless & AIFF: Apple Lossless: 1026kbps / 26.9MB AIFF: 1411kbps / 37MB Surely the AIFF's 1411kbps will always deliver superior sound, because the Apple Lossless version is (more) compressed?

i think he meant spending £250 on a dac would sound better than a £250 cdp - never questioned file size or compression

but your right when you compress you take away so won't be better

Sorry, I didn't explain properly (original post amended!): surely, therefore, a £250 cdp playing AIFFs/CDs is always going to sound better than a £250 dac playing Apple Lossless?

 

[matengawhat]

no because the dac in the £250 cdp player will be of a lower quality than a £250 external dac (big genralisations but in the cdp you will have display, transport ect ect) - that why dacs for the money when compared with cdp sound like more expensive cdp players

 

[idc]

matengawhat:.....but your right when you compress you take away so won't be better

That depends on whether you can differentiate between bit rates. As I said before, there are plenty of tests on the web. I can't tell the difference unless it is poor MP3 versus lossless. If you cant tell the difference, one bit rate can't be better than another with regards to SQ. I also prefer the sound of Spotify's compressed bit rate to Apple Lossless and other lossless formats. So do others on the forum.

To the OP, there are so many variations in PC based music: file size, type of compression if any, the computer, the connection, the DAC, that to ask how it compares to a red book standard CD is nigh on impossible to answer with any accuracy.

 

[matengawhat]

it can't be better as less info - but your right its how much of a difference can your ears tell - but won't be better but might be perceived as the same - as said i can't tell the difference between my cpd and ipod with wadia through the same dac

 

[idc]

I'm just going to be pest here matengawhat

. If you can't tell the difference between bit rates, higher bit rate could be worse as it may limit how much you can fit on your ipod/mp3 player. But I know what you mean too!

 

[6th.replicant]

matengawhat:no because the dac in the £250 cdp player will be of a lower quality than a £250 external dac (big genralisations but in the cdp you will have display, transport ect ect) - that why dacs for the money when compared with cdp sound like more expensive cdp players

Aha, OK, of course, I see now - thanks!

So, perhaps the best option is to play AIFFs via a computer (a Mac, natch!) into a DAC...?

 

[matengawhat]

exactly - not sure what cdp you have but you could be very surprised at the improvements for the outlay compared to buying a new cdp if you already use your computer for music