Integrated Amp + DAC to pair with KEF R500

[n2n]

Hi All,

I purchased a pair of KEF R500s about 8 months back and have been saving up to buy an amp (+ DAC). I am trying to slowly build a solid system around that which I intend to use for long term. You guys were a great help with my speaker purchase (https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/first-hifi-kef-r500-or-r700).

I am heavily dependent on online reviews and feedback from you folks. I live in Kuwait and there is literally no HiFI stores/ dealers, which means NO scope for auditions as well. I know it’s a shame and any blind purchase will always be less than ideal, but it is what it is!

Facts & Preferences:

1. Budget: $3,000 for Integrated Amp + DAC. I am willing to stretch it to another 500-700 USD if it means a significantly good investment for long term.

2. Room Size: About 20 square meter.

3. Music Source: Mostly digital for a foreseeable future. Flac, mp3, m4a from Macbook Pro.

4. Volume preference: Mostly medium (and low) listening level.

5. Music Preferences: I think I go through phases and don’t stick to a specific genre for long. I listen to Rock, Jazz, Classical, Instrumental, Orchestra and Pop as well. I think I’ll prefer an amp which will do good for most the genre, if not all.

6. Near Field Listening / Use a Headphone: Nope.​

7. Expectations: Musical, engaging and addictive sound rather than analytical. I’m ready to compromise some bit of resolution if it means seductive sound and no listening fatigue. I will prefer natural life-like sound (some people refers to it as analogue or organic sounding I think) over dry and digitized sound. I’d like to have wide, deep and layered soundstage with good instrumental separation. I like tight articulated bass and I’m a sucker for open and airy mid / voice. I could care less about highs as long as it’s not harsh and hurt my ears. I believe this is more or less everyone’s expectations from their system. I’m sorry if I sound too theoretical but this is the best I could come up with by reading the reviews and my limited experience.

Shortlist:

After reading numerous reviews and spending many hours on online research, I came up with a shortlist:

1. Simaudio Moon Neo ACE

2. Hegel H160

3. Parasound Halo Integrated

As for a standalone DAC route, I am almost decided on Schiit Gungnir Multibit. That leaves me with around 2,000 USD for an Integrated Amp. My shortlist on what might work well with R500s and meet my expectations:

1. Musical Fidelity M5si + Schiit Gungnir Multibit

2. Creek Evolution 100A + Schiit Gungnir Multibit

3. Arcam FMJ A39 + Schiit Gungnir Multibit

4. Rega Elicit-R + Schiit Gungnir Multibit

5. Schiit Ragnarok + Schiit Gungnir Multibit

That’s about it. I really really need help from you guys. Everything I mentined above is from my reasonable assumption. So any feedback/ suggestion/ advice from your experience will help me decide. I need this to accomplish my unfortunate mission of pulling the trigger blind.

Regards,

 

[CnoEvil]

FWIW. I think I'd be looking at the Hegel, Rega and Arcam....and maybe the Hegel might win out.

Your speakers need a clean, powerful amp that keeps them under control.

 

[Vladimir]

FWIW. I think I'd be looking at the Hegel, Rega and Arcam....and maybe the Hegel might win out.

Your speakers need a clean, powerful amp that keeps them under control.

"NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 Ohms (min.3.2 Ohms)" from the KEF website. I think pretty much any amp on the list will do more than a decent job in this circumstance.

 

[n2n]

FWIW. I think I'd be looking at the Hegel, Rega and Arcam....and maybe the Hegel might win out.

Your speakers need a clean, powerful amp that keeps them under control.

Thanks. Honestly I am leaning more towards Hegel and Moon. I couldn't find any reasonable review of Hegel and r500 / r700 pairing. On the other hand, i read somewhere that in a Bristol Show, the booth with Moon Neo ACE and r700 was a standout. Also few other review says KEF R series is a good match with ACE. What is opinion about moon?

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks. Honestly I am leaning more towards Hegel and Moon. I couldn't find any reasonable review of Hegel and r500 / r700 pairing. On the other hand, i read somewhere that in a Bristol Show, the booth with Moon Neo ACE and r700 was a standout. Also few other review says KEF R series is a good match with ACE. What is opinion about moon?

I am not keen on Moon, which have sounded a bit "Cold and Shouty", with the speakers I heard them matched to...I even brought the i7 home for a trial with my Kef Ref 205/2s, as it seemed perfect "On Paper".

...but....it may work better with the R500s, which are voiced very differently to the speakers I heard it with (such as Totem).

I'm fairly sure that Hegel has been used with Kef at shows....but it may have been with the LS50s.

All I can say, is that I can't recommend that you buy from someone else's preferences....I would take the Arcam over the Rega, wheras my dealer prefers the Rega.

 

[n2n]

"NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 Ohms (min.3.2 Ohms)" from the KEF website. I think pretty much any amp on the list will do more than a decent job in this circumstance.

The speaker sensitivity of kef r500 is rated 88dB. The Moon Neo Ace is rated 50wpc@8ohms and 75wpc@4ohms. Do you think it might fall short in power during dynamic peaks?

Also, all the amps I listed are well regarded and they each have their own strenghts (and weaknesses!). What I'm trying to figure out is which one would do little better than the others. Which one would you pick if I may ask?

 

[CnoEvil]

I think pretty much any amp on the list will do more than a decent job in this circumstance.

You are right...my comment was a general one regarding the type of amp that I feel works best with these speakers. The choice from the list will come down to differences in presentation...which the OP is not going to be able to demo, but still has to make a choice.

 

[Vladimir]

"NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 Ohms (min.3.2 Ohms)" from the KEF website. I think pretty much any amp on the list will do more than a decent job in this circumstance.

The speaker sensitivity of kef r500 is rated 88dB. The Moon Neo Ace is rated 50wpc@8ohms and 75wpc@4ohms. Do you think it might fall short in power during dynamic peaks?

Also, all the amps I listed are well regarded and they each have their own strenghts (and weaknesses!). What I'm trying to figure out is which one would do little better than the others. Which one would you pick if I may ask?

I think it won't be an issue except in extreemes. It will get pretty loud before it runs out of steam. The KEFs are well behaved speakers.

I'd pick the one that will give me most interest and pride of ownership, considering the technical side is not a problem here.

 

[n2n]

I am not keen on Moon, which have sounded a bit "Cold and Shouty", with the speakers I heard them matched to...I even brought the i7 home for a trial with my Kef Ref 205/2s, as it seemed perfect "On Paper".

...but....it may work better with the R500s, which are voiced very differently to the speakers I heard it with (such as Totem).

I'm fairly sure that Hegel has been used with Kef at shows....but it may have been with the LS50s.

All I can say, is that I can't recommend that you buy from someone else's preferences....I would take the Arcam over the Rega, wheras my dealer prefers the Rega.

Thanks CNO, thats actually helps (regarding moon). Ofcourse I'll not buy my gears on someone else's preference. I understand what you mean. But what I'm trying to do here is to learn and make some educated guesses. If you share your experience and tell me why you think you prefer arcam over rega, or hegel over arcam and rega, I can learn what are attributes that makes the difference. Based on my learning I will try to decide what would suit me best. I know this is stupid and the worst way to spend 3.5K... but what can I say!

As I mentioned, your comments on moon was helpful. I'll really appriciate if you can share your experience with some of the other amps.

 

[davidf]

Although any amplifier on the list will drive the KEFs to your desired level very easily, it is still down to the amplifier to control the speakers, even at low level (although lack of control is more evident at higher volumes). An amplifier not fully in control of a speaker will sound warm and woolly, lacking punch.

It may be worth considering that the R700s were used when developing the Neo Ace. Whilst there are differences between the R500 and R700, they share many traits, and sound quite similar.

Cno - from trying different amplifiers out here, I actually found the Moon to be a tad easier on the ear than he likes of Primare, and far from shouty. Maybe it was down to the accompanying speakers? (I don't know what combination you've heard).

 

[n2n]

I think it won't be an issue except in extreemes. It will get pretty loud before it runs out of steam. The KEFs are well behaved speakers.

I'd pick the one that will give me most interest and pride of ownership, considering the technical side is not a problem here.

Thanks. I'll rarely need extremes.... It seems power (for that matter the technical side) will not be a problem with any of the amp. That helps.

As I mentioned in my last post to CNO, I am trying to make an educated guess. So if can tell me which amp (or a couple) you would prefere over the others and why, its will help me learn and decide. Ofcourse I might not end up buying what you prefer, but your experience can help me understand my decision better.

 

[n2n]

It may be worth considering that the R700s were used when developing the Neo Ace. Whilst there are differences between the R500 and R700, they share many traits, and sound quite similar.

This is one reason I'm leaning towards Neo Ace. I have a feeling that it can't go wrong with moon and it would be a safe choice particularly in my situation. But I also like what I read about Hegel. It seems emotional engagement with the music is a tad better than moon (i might be wrong). Do you any experience with hegel vs moon?

 

[davidf]

This is one reason I'm leaning towards Neo Ace. I have a feeling that it can't go wrong with moon and it would be a safe choice particularly in my situation. But I also like what I read about Hegel. It seems emotional engagement with the music is a tad better than moon (i might be wrong). Do you any experience with hegel vs moon?

I haven't, but who knows what the future might bring...

Moon don't do things by half. Their implementation of Bluetooth is flawless - the last time I streamed music from a music streaming app via my phone, most would be hard pressed to distinguish it from hi-res. The DAC is excellent.

 

[rainsoothe]

Hi. "Musical, engaging and addictive sound"? I would look for a second hand Naim Nac N 172 XS + NAP200 (or even NAP100 - this is a wonderful little power amp) + Tellurium Q Black 2 (or Black) speaker cable.

Hegel might be a pretty safe bet as well.

I think you get better value if you go second hand, and Naim always sells, so you can get rid of it for no loss if you don't like the way it sounds (although I highly doubt you would). Last time I heard Moon, it did seem a bit shouty to me as well, and a bit slow too (which might be a poor matching for your Kefs). It didn't sound bad, but every other brand I auditioned that day was better imo (Naim, Arcam, Sugden, Jadis).

I'm not only recommending the Naim combo only because I have it, by the way, but because I always wanted to upgrade my stuff, until now: when I want to upgrade the 172XS to a 272, if I start listening to my current setup, I always smile and forget about upgrading. It's very well balanced, and very, very musical.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I had hegel h160 and h360 paired with kef r700s
If you want hegel sound id go for a separate power amp and use a stand alone dac as the pre as the dac in h160/h360 is NOT asynchronous.

Regards the pairing of hegeland kef that's ok.

If you like a little more excitement in the presentation demo cyrus or something similar as the r series can sound little polite with some amps

 

[nopiano]

I've heard the Hegel 160 with KEF Reference 1s at the Bristol Show, and they seemed very well suited. The Moon Neo Ace has had universally good reviews and David's advice I'm sure is sound. The Parasound is great value in the US and appeals to my liking for beefy integrated amps, and again has been widely praised. So, I'm in the 'any would be good' camp!

It might most easily come down to your local price and availability - and if shipping from elsewhere, the warranty situation. Though not what you think of when the excitement of a new purchase beckons, you should consider what will happens if it arrives non-working.

 

[Al ears]

I've heard the Hegel 160 with KEF Reference 1s at the Bristol Show, and they seemed very well suited. The Moon Neo Ace has had universally good reviews and David's advice I'm sure is sound. The Parasound is great value in the US and appeals to my liking for beefy integrated amps, and again has been widely praised. So, I'm in the 'any would be good' camp!

It might most easily come down to your local price and availability - and if shipping from elsewhere, the warranty situation. Though not what you think of when the excitement of a new purchase beckons, you should consider what will happens if it arrives non-working.

+1

A local dealer is a very undervalued commodity in these days of internet purchases.

 

[davidf]

+1

A local dealer is a very undervalued commodity in these days of internet purchases.

+1

And usually missed when they're gone.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno - from trying different amplifiers out here, I actually found the Moon to be a tad easier on the ear than he likes of Primare, and far from shouty. Maybe it was down to the accompanying speakers? (I don't know what combination you've heard).

My findings were very unexpected. I wanted to hear the i7 because:

a) It was very good value, as it was ex-dem

b) Everything I'd read said it was a powerful amp, with a refined sound and a good dose of Class A...almost verging on being too polite.

c) The build quality was terrific.

d) I could easily incorporate it into an AV system.

I brought it home and spent a long weekend listening to it and comparing it with the MF AMS35i.....it was in my system which consists of Linn Majik DS and 205/2s. The two amps were being compared with the 2 channel performance of my AVR600.

The 35i gave me everything I had from the Arcam, but at a much higher level (in every area).

The Moon was technically better than the Arcam ie. More detailed, more powerful with slightly better bass....but for me (and her indoors), it was less musically engaging and sounded shouty when the wick was turned up.

I have also heard - Moon 750D CDP + Moon i700i + Totem Wind....but I also find Totem a bit shouty.

Regarding the OP's position....because I only like certain amps with my Refs and because I don't really like Totem, I gave a caveat regarding my experience.

I always found Linn Amps a bit cold and uninvolving....until I heard them with R Series/LS50, which seemed to offset this trait, which is why I feel the Moon could work.

 

[Vladimir]

I think it won't be an issue except in extreemes. It will get pretty loud before it runs out of steam. The KEFs are well behaved speakers.

I'd pick the one that will give me most interest and pride of ownership, considering the technical side is not a problem here.

Kahmmm... >>> clicky <<<

MERIDIAN Boutique

Address: Shuwaikh Industrial, Kuwait City

Phone:+965 9788 7990

 

[n2n]

Hi Guys,

Do anyone have any experience with Rogue Audio Sphinx + KEF R500 (or R Series)? I was wondering how they would pair together! I could then add Schiit Grungir Multibit as DAC. Any idea anyone?

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Guys,

Do anyone have any experience with Rogue Audio Sphinx + KEF R500 (or R Series)? I was wondering how they would pair together! I could then add Schiit Grungir Multibit as DAC. Any idea anyone?

Is the Sphinx a Class D / Valve hybrid? Have you heard one?

 

[n2n]

Yes, I think its a hybrid... Class D with Tubed Pre-Amplifier. And no I never heard one.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes, I think its a hybrid... Class D with Tubed Pre-Amplifier. And no I never heard one.

It's very hard to know....ie.does it have the traits of a class D, or valves.

If it sound clean, with good control, it should be fine. If it's on the warm side, the effect with the R500s could be a bit soft and unexciting.

 

[n2n]

It's very hard to know....ie.does it have the traits of a class D, or valves.

If it sound clean, with good control, it should be fine. If it's on the warm side, the effect with the R500s could be a bit soft and unexciting.

I think its on the warmer side. To be honest, the more I'm reading different reviews, I am getting more confused. It seems Hegel is a highly praised amp that many people use / used as reference. I was leaning towards it, but then i'm little unsure if the too clean and neutral sound will become less engaging or involving (comparitively). I am no critique, I am just a music lover who wants to enjoy his music everyday.